45 réponses à ce sujet

[rak72]

So I started playing a Mage today (only my 2nd time).  I told Irving that Jowan was planning to escape, and he told me to help throw Lilly under the bus.  Who knew he was such a rat bastard.  I'll never look at him the same again.

[ejoslin]

That's not a very nice way to think of your mentor...

I didn't like Irving after the mage origin, but he gained major points in my book after he told Wynne to shut up about "grey warden magic" when I played with the DT unlock to the blood magic dialog when Wynne tries to rat you out.

Edit: Seriously, it could have been worse.  What if WYNNE had been your mentor instead!

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 avril 2010 - 10:02 .

[Lady Jess]

I took it more as the templars are always willing to overlook the guilt of their own, and dish out the max punishment for the mages. Which, in Jowan's case, would be completely unfair since it was HER that stole the information that LED Jowan to this path in the first place. Why should Jowan be the only one that faces punishment if BOTH can be caught and equally dealt with.

[rak72]

It'll be nice to not have to schlep Wynne & Morrigan around this time. Maybe I'll kill Wynn

Modifié par rak72, 01 avril 2010 - 10:09 .

[rak72]

I'll go along with him in this run through (I plan on being very anti-chantry). 1st time, I just helped Jowan, and got my Butt handed to me for it.

[7th_Phoenix]

Lady Jess wrote...

I took it more as the templars are always willing to overlook the guilt of their own, and dish out the max punishment for the mages. Which, in Jowan's case, would be completely unfair since it was HER that stole the information that LED Jowan to this path in the first place. Why should Jowan be the only one that faces punishment if BOTH can be caught and equally dealt with.

Here, here! Irving is a clever man and he just wants to protect the Circle while dealing a blow to the Chantry at the same time even if it means sinking Jowan... who is an idiot anyway, if not adorable the least bit.

Good for Irving, I say.

[TheComfyCat]

...and it's especially hard to like Irving after reading his journal (in his office during Broken Circle).



But even when I went along with him in one play through, I got the distinct impression that he was as willing to throw my mage under the bus to play politics...



But still, as Ejoslin said, at least Wynne wasn't your mentor *shudder*

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I helped Jowan on my mage playthrough, my more "good" mage (though she still hated the Chantry)

It was my blood mage that actually decided to shop Jowan for petty reasons.

Irving is an ass, especially when you do the broken circle quest and you read his journal. He was playing games with apprentices.

Edit: Ninja'd

Modifié par Skadi_the_Evil_Elf, 01 avril 2010 - 10:12 .

[Efesell]

Pfft, Wynne is great.





I thought I should balance this thread out a bit.

[7th_Phoenix]

senorfuzzylips wrote...

...and it's especially hard to like Irving after reading his journal (in his office during Broken Circle).

Oh, yeah... I forgot about his journal but I still understand Irving's intentions in the mage origin no matter how cold or callous.

[rak72]

Efesell wrote...

Pfft, Wynne is great.


I thought I should balance this thread out a bit.

You mean "Miss I got the Fade comin out of my bum"?

Modifié par rak72, 01 avril 2010 - 10:21 .

[Emerald Melios]

rak72 wrote...

So I started playing a Mage today (only my 2nd time).  I told Irving that Jowan was planning to escape, and he told me to help throw Lilly under the bus.  Who knew he was such a rat bastard.  I'll never look at him the same again.

"If you want to survive, you must learn the rules and realize that sometimes, sacrifices are necessary."

[7th_Phoenix]

Emerald Melios wrote...

rak72 wrote...

So I started playing a Mage today (only my 2nd time).  I told Irving that Jowan was planning to escape, and he told me to help throw Lilly under the bus.  Who knew he was such a rat bastard.  I'll never look at him the same again.

"If you want to survive, you must learn the rules and realize that sometimes, sacrifices are necessary."

Good one @Emerald Melios

[Efesell]

rak72 wrote...

Efesell wrote...

Pfft, Wynne is great.


I thought I should balance this thread out a bit.

You mean "Miss I got the Fade comin out of my bum"?

It took me a minute to figure out what this was supposed to mean.

[Raiil]

I don't like Irving for that reason. I understand he feels it's necessary and I sort of agree with him, but his general tone and remorselessness really irks me. Jowan pisses me off and Lily is... a cow (and they're both jerks for dragging the PC into it) but they're in love and scare. To be so dismissive of the emotional aspect of it bothers me.

[Sarah1281]

You mean "Miss I got the Fade comin out of my bum"?

I love Ines. She made Awakening worth it.

I haven't played a mage yet, but Irving annoyed me quite a bit when I took the third option to save Connor. Wynne and Morrigan were...unavailable to go into the Fade so it was either him or Jowan. He complains that you trust too easily and you're going to just make the situation worse if you send Jowan but if you suggest him then he doesn't feel like it so you have to peruade him. What else was I supposed to do? There were only two options!

Modifié par Sarah1281, 02 avril 2010 - 01:07 .

[Raiil]

Sarah1281 wrote...

You mean "Miss I got the Fade comin out of my bum"?

I love Ines. She made Awakening worth it.

I haven't played a mage yet, but Irving annoyed me quite a bit when I took the third option to save Connor. Wynne and Morrigan were...unavailable to go into the Fade so it was either him or Jowan. He complains that you trust too easily and you're going to just make the situation worse if you send Jowan but if you suggest him then he doesn't feel like it so you have to peruade him. What else was I supposed to do? There were only two options!

He says the same thing if you're a mage as well. He gets a bit shirty, all things considered. I just saved you from annihalation or being stuck in the tower forever, you jerk. Grow a pair and get into the Fade!

[Sarah1281]

If you're a mage, though, you could just do it yourself. If you're not and Morrigan and Wynne aren't available (for whatever reasons...) then you literally only have two options: Jowan or Irving and he complains about both choices. Or, of course, you could just not do the ritual and kill Connor but then everyone just wasted a trip.

[Lady Jess]

senorfuzzylips wrote...

...and it's especially hard to like Irving after reading his journal (in his office during Broken Circle).

But even when I went along with him in one play through, I got the distinct impression that he was as willing to throw my mage under the bus to play politics...

But still, as Ejoslin said, at least Wynne wasn't your mentor *shudder*

It took until my 3rd mage origin to figure this out. If you help him when he asks, he mentions you'll be rewarded well. And you are, Duncan recruits you and you are now free of the chantry. Duncan didn't just happen to be there at that door...I have a feeling THAT was Irving's doing. A reward for his prized pupil (which Uldred calls you in the Broken Circle test, and other snotty mage apprentices whine about you impressing Cullen, and Irving, etc)

[Sarah1281]

Well, I suppose that would explain Duncan's presence since the Mage origin really has one of the flimsiest reason for Duncan to be there (HN and CE he's there to recruit them from having heard of their skill/wanted to recruit their mother and for both dwarves he's there so he can see the darkspawn retreat and get more signs of a Blight and to recruit a promising dwarven warrior since they have more experiece fighting darkspawn. The week he chooses to go is the difference between getting the DC or the DN). I haven't played the Dalish so I'm not sure why he's there for that one.



And it would certainly make Irving come off as less of a heartless monster more concerned with politics than with helping those under his care.

[Raiil]

I was under the impression that Duncan was at the Circle to recruit more mages for the army, period. He talks about the need for mages in the army (presumably doubly for the GW army, since the Ferelden branch is still relatively new and probably don't have a lot) and is looking to recruit someone. You happen to be the best candidate, and Irving probably intended to push you forward regardless. Jowan's special brand of idiocy just gives Duncan the excuse to conscript you if you or Gregoir are bent on the PC not going.





And yes, as a mage you can enter yourself, but it might just be sheer curiousity or tiredness that leads you to ask Irving. In any case, he's an arse for being a jerk about it. It's not like you're asking him to take on the Blight single handedly. Obviously, you're qualified, but as the First Enchanter so is he.

[Lady Jess]

Valentia X wrote...

I was under the impression that Duncan was at the Circle to recruit more mages for the army, period. He talks about the need for mages in the army (presumably doubly for the GW army, since the Ferelden branch is still relatively new and probably don't have a lot) and is looking to recruit someone. You happen to be the best candidate, and Irving probably intended to push you forward regardless. Jowan's special brand of idiocy just gives Duncan the excuse to conscript you if you or Gregoir are bent on the PC not going.

Why he's at the tower is yes, to recruit mages, and he does know your reputation. Why he is at the exact place at the exact time you are facing down Gregoir, coupled with the mention of reward from Irving when he asks you to frame Jowan and Lily, tells me a little gray bird whispered in Duncan's ear.

As Uldred said, Irving's star pupil. No way he is going to let the chantry take you, and he knows Gregoir well enough to know that YOUR arse is going to be in a sling at that moment.

As for the fade, I always went, or sent Morrigan (she amuses me in there so much). I figured Irving was a bit worn out after that whole Uldred fiasco. Or, as in this playthrough...Well, I never liked Isolde...

[Elhanan]

I was a bit surprised that Irving wished for me to go undercover, but it does make sense. Lily was complicit, and if Gregor wished to execute Jowan, then the Commander would also have to issue like discipline to her, too. Irving may have wanted to insure that Jowan would be spared and allowed to live.



My difficulty lies in that there are no redeemable Blood mages seen in Origins. Every one I encountered was deserving of their fate, whether execution or sealed away in isolation for life. Forget the notion that Blood mages may conspire with Demons, as Awakening has a tome that unlocks this forbidden path. Jowan derserved severe punishment for his own actions apart from his magic.



Some mention that the chance for freedom was worth any cost; they then must pay it.



And though rather stern, Irving did allow a Dwarven student to enroll for the upcoming semester.

[Emerald Melios]

Elhanan wrote...

I was a bit surprised that Irving wished for me to go undercover, but it does make sense. Lily was complicit, and if Gregor wished to execute Jowan, then the Commander would also have to issue like discipline to her, too. Irving may have wanted to insure that Jowan would be spared and allowed to live.

My difficulty lies in that there are no redeemable Blood mages seen in Origins. Every one I encountered was deserving of their fate, whether execution or sealed away in isolation for life. Forget the notion that Blood mages may conspire with Demons, as Awakening has a tome that unlocks this forbidden path. Jowan derserved severe punishment for his own actions apart from his magic.

Some mention that the chance for freedom was worth any cost; they then must pay it.

And though rather stern, Irving did allow a Dwarven student to enroll for the upcoming semester.

I spared the girl that surrenders in the Senior Mage Quarters. I think if you are a Blood Mage, you even can ask her to just join your armies and be discreet (since malificar = perfect for killing darkspawn).

[Huojin]

Elhanan wrote...
. Jowan derserved severe punishment for his own actions apart from his magic.
 

I'm not entirely sure Jowan's done anything wrong/worthy of severe punishment apart from practicing blood magic, which is... imo anyway, not really worth 'severe' punishment. Not in his case anyway. Besides, technically, doesn't this mean he's passed his Harrowing? lol

IDK maybe I'm forgetting something. Your PC should get to smack him in the face for lying to you though... yeah man, you want me to help save your life? Suuuuure since you're my friend and I'm scared for you too... just lie straight to my face about something as huge as this. Thanks. I risked everything for you and you just smack me in the face. ILU JOWAN.

I hate that Irving gets shirty about going into the Fade... yeah, you don't owe me or anything you jerk.  I sent Jowan once in the hope of some kind of redemption from Eamon but nope, Eamon's just "YEAH BUT NO HE ARE BAD"

But I like that he wants to make sure the Templars punish Lily. Yeah, she annoys the hell out of me, but also we all know that she'd probably get away scot-free if he hadn't had anything to do with it. The Templars /Chantry would have made up some b/s about Jowan's mind control (LMFAO) forcing her to do what he wanted, and he'd have ended up dead and she'd have ended up the weepy victim. I hate the Chantry and I hate Lily so... GO IRVING is all I can say there XD

Modifié par Huojin, 02 avril 2010 - 09:39 .