266 réponses à ce sujet

[FuturePasTimeCE]

chessplayer209 wrote...

It's been said before in this thread but whatever I'll say it again... the military force portrayed in Mass Effect is not the US Military ... it's a different organization that may well have its own protocol. This is a non-issue.

we know...it doesn't say u.s. military of star alliance:huh:

[Si-Shen]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

chessplayer209 wrote...

It's been said before in this thread but whatever I'll say it again... the military force portrayed in Mass Effect is not the US Military ... it's a different organization that may well have its own protocol. This is a non-issue.

we know...it doesn't say u.s. military of star alliance:huh:

Its also been pointed out earlier when this thread first came about, that its some 200 years in the future, therefore what we know is irrelevent as things change over time. 

Why is this even an issue?  You can't tell me that a couple minor issues is so sufficent that its pulling a person out of the game.  If it is, maybe they need to take a lighter look at gaming and take it less seriously.

[Benu5]

Military Tradition of saluting with the right hand has lasted two hundred years already so there is no reason why it would change. Another thing is that the AI core guard has no head dress on and therefor should not salute, thats how it is in the Australian Army. That said I don'y know about the navy seeing as they are indoors alot more than us.

[CroGamer002]

I think every army in the world solutes with right hand.

[Christmas Ape]

I guess it doesn't really strike anybody that Cerberus isn't actually an organized military so much as an extra-governmental intelligence agency that consciously avoids getting stuck in regulations, and he doesn't really have a direct cause to salute you at all? He's a man with a gun posted near something dangerous. Maybe the left-handed salute is his own quiet rebellion against his new questionable employers.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Wow, how did I miss this thread? Very nice points and I'm glad BioWare is aware of it.

[TheKillerAngel]

Christmas Ape wrote...

I guess it doesn't really strike anybody that Cerberus isn't actually an organized military so much as an extra-governmental intelligence agency that consciously avoids getting stuck in regulations, and he doesn't really have a direct cause to salute you at all? He's a man with a gun posted near something dangerous. Maybe the left-handed salute is his own quiet rebellion against his new questionable employers.

There's a good chance that many people in it may be ex military and would carry on some of those traditions though. Old habits don't die so quickly.

[CaptainZaysh]

Bron Avery wrote...

I don't like the military cause it makes people single minded, or only know how to take orders. Anyone who says other wise has ether not been in the military and never knew someone in the military or is an unintelligent person in the military who can't see what has happened to them. I not saying OP knows this, and I am not saying it's not necessary to have an army. I will say that I take orders from no man, unless I have no reason to oblige, I will now hide behind a flame-shield.

That's quite a penetrating analysis.  Here's one back atcha.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

[Nordic Einar]

Militaries, as institutions, are incredibly conservative and place a great deal of emphasis on tradition. Traditions do, of course, change over time, but very rarely do they disappear altogether. Further, it is absolutely true that many militaries across the world are different; however, you'd likely find that they have more in common with one another than not, should you look.



Finally, seeing as how the ranking system for Naval Personal on star ships, as well as the marines serving there, are taken pretty much directly from rankings between Naval and Marine rankings on modern sea-vessels, I can't imagine space has changed mankind's military traditions too much. Seriously guys, it's a codex entry.

[Zulu_DFA]

Benu5 wrote...

Military Tradition of saluting with the right hand has lasted two hundred years already ...

How about 4 hundred? It derives from the French Musketeers tradition, I think, of saluting each other by touching the brim of their hats (instead of taking them off).

Anyway, everyone else in Cerberus salutes with the right hand. Screenshots here.

Which proves that the left hand salute in the Normandy's server room is the Private Pyle's dumb mistake. But Shepard must react to it. The fact that Shepard does not, proves that it's BioWare's mistake. And a quite obvious, dumb and sore one in the eyes of any serviceman, active or former, which is the point of the OP.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 27 juin 2010 - 04:38 .

[Neotribe]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

That's quite a penetrating analysis.  Here's one back atcha.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

That's well and good, but it's worth pointing out that not everyone agrees with the ethical views of John Stuart Mill. (Not that I sympathize with the previous sentiment about those serving in the military.) 

The needs of the many, eh, Spock?

Modifié par Neotribe, 27 juin 2010 - 04:58 .

[Cra5y Pineapple]

Ah, soldiers. Gotta love how they make themselves a minority by calling everyone around them "Civilians." XD



But those are some good points. The saluting with the wrong hand is a mistake that you wouldn't think the developers would make.

[Bryy_Miller]

WarAxe7 wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Don't worry, Boot camp reinforced his skull.

I don't think he lasted more than 3 days in boot camp, if he ever went at all.  He knows nothing about the military... just listen to him. 

SSSSSH! Didn't you hear him? Stop trolling!

[testesandurine]

*sigh*
I knew this thread would come up one of these days. The outcome was pretty predictable too.

OP is clearly Air Force. You can tell by the terminology he uses and the fact that he felt the need to call attention to his military service on a video game message board. I bet he's one of those guys that puts his rank in his gamertag, too. 

The rank structure and how the characters act within it is laughable from the real-world military perspective, but Mass Effect does a much better job than other games like Gears of War or even movies that depict the actual military like GI Joe and Transformers.

The mistakes in Mass Effect aren't much more than you'd expect from developers that haven't spent any time in the military and are more concerned about making a good storyline and a believable living, breathing, universe to play it out in.

The only thing that really stuck out to me was how casual characters were about fraternization. Situations like Shepard having sex with Williams or Alenko do happen irl, and the outcome is very, very ugly. There was one situation like that (while deployed in Afghanistan) where a Captain was caught messin around with her 1st Sergeant. It didn't end well for anybody and it threw the entire company off-balance for a long time afterward. Do you know what its like being in a war and having your command team choose their physical urges over their duty and obligation as leaders? 

[Bryy_Miller]

OP is clearly Air Force. You can tell by the terminology he uses and the fact that he felt the need to call attention to his military service on a video game message board. I bet he's one of those guys that puts his rank in his gamertag, too. 

But you know what's REALLY hilarious? Military dudes and dudettes that try to push their weight around on webcomic forums. We were discussing collecting toys versus playing with them over on the Shortpcked! forums once, and this military dude starts talking about how we as civilians can't understand his perogative to be nerdy. 

[Elhanan]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

OP is clearly Air Force. You can tell by the terminology he uses and the fact that he felt the need to call attention to his military service on a video game message board. I bet he's one of those guys that puts his rank in his gamertag, too. 

But you know what's REALLY hilarious? Military dudes and dudettes that try to push their weight around on webcomic forums. We were discussing collecting toys versus playing with them over on the Shortpcked! forums once, and this military dude starts talking about how we as civilians can't understand his perogative to be nerdy. 

Know what is even more interesting? Apostates! *guess this DAO quote might be rather obscure to some*

Prejudice knows know boundaries. As an older, Christian, and ex-military gamer, I have seen the Blind on a few sides of the issues. The older crowd can be elitist, the younger ones can fail to listen to experience and grab the ring on the newest shiny, the Christians can condemn RPG without due process, and the gamers can condemn all religious folk as zealots. Now military roles come into play, and some from each side think they know all about the other. *shakes head at the repeated displays of ignorance*

As far as the OP, personally I thought they revealed themselves to be rather insightful, educated, and well spoken. The post was well done, and the OP did not appear to return fire at the opposing side. I thought the topic was interesting in light of my own brief experience; hence my earlier reply.

But I am not beyond prejudice myself; tend to dislike rudeness in general, and still think Officers get far too much credit for the work of good non-comm's....

Modifié par Elhanan, 29 juin 2010 - 02:22 .