266 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth_Trethon]

You do know you are the only one spamming and trolling by blindly refusing to see that your standards don't bear any relevance in fantasy, the future or any other nation's protocols.

[killingsheep24]

Gah, who cares.

[Fiannawolf]

I had the sheer luck of going thru Basic and A School before I got my mits on the first ME. Great Lakes was interesting durning that November-January of 07/08. Half the division couldnt march on the icey sidewalks too well. I fell on my butt a good 4-5 times.

[Digifi]

Darth,

A) Chill

A good logical argument is that every other salute in the game is right handed, so a left handed salute by that one guy is inconsistent. If one thing is consistent from military to military, world over, is that they all have standards. You don't deviate from those. So if this one guy is Cerberus, who are all saluting right handed in game, or if this guy is Alliance, who are saluting right handed in game, then he has some issues for saluting left handed in game.

I'll give you that insurgent forces tend not to be as standardized in customs and courtesies so I suppose he could be an insurgent.

Modifié par Digifi, 02 avril 2010 - 12:32 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Don Moar wrote...

@Darth_Trethon

Actually, I don't think Napolean or cavemen had protocols for making a "Mayday" call on their radios while in flight.

Also, the protocol for "Mayday" is international, so by definition Brits, Yanks, Canucks, etc. should be following the same format, providing similar information in roughly the same order.


Don M

But that would change in sapce with completely different and new technology. Not to mention far more advanced enemies. But the other details like saluting and so on is different from branch to branch and nation to nation.

[Stanley Woo]

I knew I "done a good thing" when I remarked that some dude was saluting with the wrong hand. It's a shame I couldn't catch them all.



I am a big fan of verisimilitude in media. Things don't have to be perfect in fiction, or conform 100% to the way things work in real life, but having it be consistent and seem like real life is always good. I feel just as strongly about the way computers and the internet are portrayed in media, and get a little annoyed when things work as if by magic.



My favourite show, NCIS, is, of course, exempt from my ire.

[Nu-Nu]

It's not call of duty so I think they can get away with silly mistakes like that, it be nice if it was a bit more ethentic but I don't want it too much like reality, I like to keep the fun upbeat personality of alliance army.

[SaulTighsEyePatch]

As a civilian, I always appreciate a game/movie/TV show more when they actually do the research and put effort in getting military protocol right. So yes, Bioware, please get a military advisor!

[agentwaffle]

Don Moar wrote...

Hey,

Thanks for the information, Roelandt.

As you said, making those kinds of mistakes probably doesn't even register for most people, but for those who do they really stand out.

For example, the original line for Joker's mayday call during the game's opening sequence did not conform to international protocol and, being a bit of an aviation enthusiast, it really grated on me every time I heard it. As a result, I filed a bug and even though the line still doesn't conform 100%, it's a lot closer than the original. Now, I doubt anyone without an interest in aviation would have even noticed the problem, but hopefully those with such an interest appreciate that it's a close approximation.

I can't say we'll get it all right in ME3, but I'll pass your comments along.


Don M

 Cool.  I feel similar when it comes to music.  Anything bad music references pisses me off.

[Eradyn]

SaulTighsEyePatch wrote...

As a civilian, I always appreciate a game/movie/TV show more when they actually do the research and put effort in getting military protocol right. So yes, Bioware, please get a military advisor!

This, a hundred times. ^^ 

[Darth_Trethon]

Digifi wrote...

Darth,

A) Chill

A good logical argument is that every other salute in the game is right handed, so a left handed salute by that one guy is inconsistent. If one thing is consistent from military to military, world over, is that they all have standards. You don't deviate from those. So if this one guy is Cerberus, who are all saluting right handed in game, or if this guy is Alliance, who are saluting right handed in game, then he has some issues for saluting left handed in game.

I'll give you that insurgent forces tend not to be as standardized in customs and courtesies so I suppose he could be an insurgent.

That is still assuming that saluting MUST at all times be done with the same hand....175 years in the future. That is subject to change. Today we are very anal about such things but nothing is the same in ME.

[Don Moar]

@Darth_Trethon



Maybe things like the protocol for a "Mayday" call or salute will change in the future, or maybe they won't. The air force is a (relatively) new branch of service yet it still incorporates some of the traditions of other, older, branches and I think it is entirely likely that any new branch, such as a stellar navy, would do the same.





Don M

[Darth_Trethon]

Don Moar wrote...

@Darth_Trethon

Maybe things like the protocol for a "Mayday" call or salute will change in the future, or maybe they won't. The air force is a (relatively) new branch of service yet it still incorporates some of the traditions of other, older, branches and I think it is entirely likely that any new branch, such as a stellar navy, would do the same.


Don M

That may be but overall things change drastically. All I'm saying is that this does not have to be the same and if you started doing it one way for the first two games I don't see why you should feel obligated to change it.

[WarAxe7]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Wrong hand??? Are you that stuck in ONE way to refuse to realize that 175 years in the future we are nothing but an expired past. Are you so blind as to REFUSE to uderstand that diferent nations salute differently and that 175 years in the future they are not representing any specific nation.

I have to break it to you but protocol CHANGES and you cannot expect or even make a remote argument that an unrelated military service should follow YOUR protoclos of today 175 years in the future.

You have NO argument.

Darth_Trethon... you are an idiot.  I can tell you right now you have never served in any military, and that you have no idea whatsoever about military history around the world and throughout the ages... nor do you probably have a girlfriend... or a job.  I hope you fall in a pool of lava and die.

175 years ago militaries were saluting with the right hand... not just today.  And I'm talking about every civilized military across the world... not just the United States.  Really, almost every single military tradition and protocol today has been handed down from the previous generations... who got them from previous generations... back nearly as far as we can attest.  And these will passed forward as they have been.

Idiot.

Modifié par WarAxe7, 02 avril 2010 - 01:09 .

[Shin Yodama]

Things don't change as much as you might think Darth - ever heard of something called Military Tradition?



Throughout the world, each countries military do things differently, and yet have remarkable similarities. I cannot think of a single country that salutes using the left hand, though I am open to correction if I am wrong.



An excellent and well written post by the OP, and gratifying responses by the Devs - the only discordant note is that of the Troll.



I am military (British Army) and many of our 'protocols' go back hundreds of years. I am glad to see that although some things, as caught by the OP,are not correct, a great deal of effort has gone into making this game hard hitting and realistic from a military point of view. I particularly liked the Gunnery Sergeant on the Citadel, and the way the salutes made by the models in the cut scenes are crisp (even though it was a non military organisation giving them).



Can we get a patch to allow me to severely admonish Jacob for saluting with no head-dress?

[Duskeyboy]

thank goodness someone addressed that, and another thing thats been bothering me is there is no commander on the normandy(1), because i've been told shepard was a lieutenant commander, and i think some of the captain ranks were screwed up in ME1 and it kinda bugged me, they really need to do more in-depth research.

[WarAxe7]

Duskeyboy wrote...

thank goodness someone addressed that, and another thing thats been bothering me is there is no commander on the normandy(1), because i've been told shepard was a lieutenant commander, and i think some of the captain ranks were screwed up in ME1 and it kinda bugged me, they really need to do more in-depth research.

Actually... the "Captains" of vessels can be a wide variety of ranks depending on the size and nature of the vessel.

[Shin Yodama]

Well said War Axe, beat me to it.

[Darth_Trethon]

WarAxe7 wrote...


Darth_Trethon... you are an idiot.  I can tell you right now you have never served in any military, and that you have no idea whatsoever about military history around the world and throughout the ages... nor do you probably have a girlfriend... or a job.  I hope you fall in a pool of lava and die.

175 years ago militaries were saluting with the right hand... not just today.  ANd it's been every civilized military across the world... not just the US.  No surpise, though, to people with IQ's above 28... because almost every single military tradition and protocol today has been handed down from the previous generations... who got them from previous generations... back nearly as far as we can attest.  And these will passed forward as they have been.

Idiot.

All I see is a lot of personal attacks directed at angering me and diminishing me and not enough argument. Humanity is the new kid on the playground joining an already established interspecies military protocol that would be nothing like humanity's. Then things are completely different in space where you are dealing with a lot of new dangers and threats than you do on the ground or sea on earth. As such humanity would be forced to change a lot of things to adapt to the new interspecies protocol and be able to communicate with friendly forces of other species and to adapt to entire new sets of threats.

The saluting soldier has a rifle with no sling in his right hand if I rememberc orrectly. An explanation could simply be that saluting became acceptable with both hands to diminish the risk of a stray shot in a spaceship not to mention that changing the weapon holding hand at a moment's notice would be awkward at best. A stray shot on earth or sea might get one person killed but a stray shot on a spaceship can destroy it and kill everyone aboard in any number of ways.

Keep your insults to yourself and bring some more reasonable arguments other than "it's human tradition" where humanity is the little kid joining the grown-up club.

[Darth Drago]

Shin Yodama wrote...
Can we get a patch to allow me to severely admonish Jacob for saluting with no head-dress?

-Maybe that will be in his alternate appearance pack? Another uniform with a head-cover.

(nothing like getting booted out from here and having to resign in in the middle of a reply)

[Darth_Trethon]

Shin Yodama wrote...

Snip

See my answer to waraxe except for the insult part that doesn't apply to you.

[WarAxe7]

Actually... some services salute indoors without head cover... and some do not. Some salute in civilian clothes, and some do not. That part's okay.

[Darth_Trethon]

WarAxe7 wrote...

Actually... some services salute indoors without head cover... and some do not. Some salute in civilian clothes, and some do not. That part's okay.

In space head gear that isn't combat gear would become obsolete for the most part especially on space stations where you're either insinde in acceptable atmosphere (ie not cold) or in your combat suit. There are no covers that we've seen in ME with a couple of rare exceptions like Kahoku I think but not on any ground forces or regular troops.

[7th_Phoenix]

Learned some interesting stuff from the OP's first post.



But it's just a game. It's not always perfect. :|

[Shin Yodama]

I hear you War Axe, it just jarred with me when I saw it (and he does it all the time) because my country's military doesn't.