266 réponses à ce sujet

[EthrenDiak]

God_Emperor wrote...

Does Cerberus count as the military? Aren't they a privately funded paramilitary group?

Yes, Cerberus is a privately funded paramilitary force. However, by talking to the crew, you learn that most, if not all, served in the Alliance before joining.

My thanks to the OP for pointing these things out. Seeing as I'm young and naive  I never even noticed it, despite the best JROTC instructor in the state. :innocent:

[Pocketgb]

I'm a civvie, too, and I appreciate the concerns. It'll be cool to see if Bioware pays more attention to this sort of thing in ME3.

[We Are Harbinger]

I'm glad to see BioWare listening to this. I didn't notice either but hey, thanks BioWare

[xDarkicex]

xI extremist Ix wrote...

This ship and crew is Cerberus. They are a private military, couldn't they have their own protocol?

This + its is in the future, your on a ship that aliens helped disign I really don't think military protocal is going to be the sam in 2185 CE

Also Alliance Doesn't mean US Military I just guessing here but don't other armys around the world have differnet rules and if all of them combined to make the Alliance wouldn't it make sense for the rules to change to fit this mix?

Modifié par xDarkicex, 02 avril 2010 - 06:41 .

[Doright36]

Forget armies around the world. Humans would have been integrating with an already established interstellar community... Being the new comers to the mix they would adapt to their protocols more so than ours would be picked up by them.

[Jarlravn]

You really need to remember that Shepard isn't in the US army, and that military protocal can be very different from country to country. For example, calling yourself to attention might not be protocol in America, but it -is- in fact protocol elsewhere in the world. Salutes also differ quite a lot from country to country, and seeing as ME2 is in the future and on a privately owned ship, it's not hard to imagine that protocol would be different.

It's also always interesting to hear how strict the US military is in terms of protocol. In Denmark, rank is of little importance except for when attending formal matters. It's no problem for the captain to chill with the privates. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that US military protocol is not a world wide thing.

[We Are Harbinger]

xDarkicex wrote...

xI extremist Ix wrote...

This ship and crew is Cerberus. They are a private military, couldn't they have their own protocol?

This + its is in the future, your on a ship that aliens helped disign I really don't think military protocal is going to be the sam in 2185 CE

Also Alliance Doesn't mean US Military I just guessing here but don't other armys around the world have differnet rules and if all of them combined to make the Alliance wouldn't it make sense for the rules to change to fit this mix?

That, and international protocal is differnt from galactic protocal. I appreciater the emphisis on integridy, but this is a non-issue for me.

[Icinix]

As much as this is interesting, I agree that this is a non - issue and not relevant to a fictional futuristic para-military organisation. In fact, the argument could be made that if they had done their research and based protocol on current US millitary, someone would start a thread "Why hasn't millitary protocol changed from US millitary protocol".

[Hoogies123]

The whole issue is very "meh" to me, but I did find myself scrolling around to see if anyone else was in the room when the guard did his "ten hut" sch-peel, old habits die hard I guess.



As for civvies doing salutes, I never had a problem with it unless they were doing it wrong (using left hand, or covering their whole eyebrow).



Still none of it really bothered me because it aint my military and its the future.

[Brp650]

Ok the wrong hand salute i can agree with, but the Ten-Hut, i have difference of opinion. When i pulled CQ in the Army and a NCO walked into the office, i would immediately stand at parade rest and yell AT-Ease! I might be the only one in the office at the time, but its protocol. An Officer walks in, and im at Attention and i yell A-TEN-HUT..loudly. Again, i may be alone or the Capt may be in his office or the NCO on CQ duty is in another room. That is let anyone in the other rooms know that a NCO or Officer has entered. So when the guard yells A-Ten-Hut..he is letting everyone in ear shot know the the Commander is near.
Protocol is different in all branches. ARMY salutes in doors while navy just hits a quick attention and says Aye-Aye-Sir.
And before i get the "i dont think you were military...or what was your unit" let me answer that
Bravo Company, 1st Bn 38th Inf Ft,Benning Ga.
I was a combat medic, now a civilian Paramedic

Modifié par Brp650, 02 avril 2010 - 09:35 .

[HeyBlade789]

What do you mean by civilians saluting btw? jw
and i can imagine how bad the joo joo is from saluting with the wrong hand

[OneBadAssMother]

I miss the military feel of ME1 to be honest. In ME2... normandy becomes more of a merc ship.



Ex-infantry-reserves here.

[Kid_SixXx]

I'm an Army Civvie that works for the National Simulation Center. I've been to enough "greening" courses at the War College to know that Roelandtstorme is 100% correct on the basic protocols.

Even so, the Alliance military is heavily "Navy" oriented now as far as protocols and operations go.

Technically there doesn't appear to be an "Army" or "Air Force" anymore now that all force projection orients from outer space instead of from points on a terrestrial body (air, sea, land) and that's all in the realm of the Alliance fleet.

Since marines are the "ground operations" arm of the Navy, it isn't surpring that marines now provide the planetside operations capability for the Alliance fleet.

Since Cerberus is a PMO, then their protocols might also be naval oriented since their ranks consist primarly of former Alliance miltary personnel. Cerberus could also contain some para-military trained individuals as well (I never heard in-game where Miranda received her combat training), so it is understandable that some protocols may have gotten lost in the shuffle and enforcement of those protocols might be lax.

Or maybe Cerberus just does their own thing just to be different?

Modifié par Kid_SixXx, 02 avril 2010 - 01:13 .

[Murmillos]

I think the issue is overblown, because Cerberus (and even those former Alliance) are not from the United States of America Military, but are of the Systems Alliance.



So I think it is disrespectful you would be calling anothers followed Military code of conduct "wrong".

[Lightice_av]

I think the issue is overblown, because Cerberus (and even those former Alliance) are not from the United States of America Military, but are of the Systems Alliance.



So I think it is disrespectful you would be calling anothers followed Military code of conduct "wrong".

Amen. It's amazing how people keep forgetting that the military in this game does not belong to the United States of America, but to a worldwide coalition with its own traditions and customs that by no means directly coincide with the US military.

[Selor Kiith]

OneBadAssMother wrote...
normandy becomes more of a merc ship.

It more or less is one... sponsored by Cerberus of course...
To add...

I don't mind what military code they follow (they will obviously have their own one)... just let it be consistent... and if everyone salutes with one hand and only one guard with the other... well that is something to look at...

Modifié par Selor Kiith, 02 avril 2010 - 12:54 .

[Nicodemus]

Back when I was doing my Cadre in school's cadets we were taught to do 2 salutes, one with arms, one without. I can't exactly remember what the guard in the background did but if he was armed with a rifle then the salute should have been a presentation of arms rather than a salute, if he had been unarmed he could have saluted.



My recolection is a bit iffy and I bow to those who served in thier various nations armed forces but I still remember the Para CSM making it clear in no uncertain terms what he thought of our sloppy salutes....

[Shazzammer2]

Selor Kiith wrote...

OneBadAssMother wrote...
normandy becomes more of a merc ship.

It more or less is one... sponsored by Cerberus of course...
To add...

I don't mind what military code they follow (they will obviously have their own one)... just let it be consistent... and if everyone salutes with one hand and only one guard with the other... well that is something to look at...

Hmm... I thought Shepard severed ties with Cerberus after the suicide mission. So wouldn't that mean the Normandy is now a mercenary ship??

[Kid_SixXx]

Lightice_av wrote...

I think the issue is overblown, because Cerberus (and even those former Alliance) are not from the United States of America Military, but are of the Systems Alliance.

So I think it is disrespectful you would be calling anothers followed Military code of conduct "wrong".

Amen. It's amazing how people keep forgetting that the military in this game does not belong to the United States of America, but to a worldwide coalition with its own traditions and customs that by no means directly coincide with the US military.

I don't think that the Systems Alliance would resort to reinventing the wheel just because it is a newly formed body.  It would probably take some sort of "best practices" approach and regiment things along those lines.  The most familiar military protocols arguably belong to the US Military, so it might be inclined to adopt those policies instead of making up their own.

Operations would obviously be different because of the spaceborn componant.

And as previously mentioned, Cerberus is a PMO that might have its own protocols for its para-military operations arm.  Maybe they salute with the wrong hand just to spite Alliance practices?  Who knows?

[Grizzly46]

This baffles me: a lot of people seems to think this is a non-issue for different reasons and I can simply not understand why. It is to my knowledge the first time this issue has been raised - but how many times haven't we discussed Tali's face or possible romance options? I'd say, since ME is a game set in a military environment, military details are even more important (and I guess, even more so in ME3) than the possible chance to hit on Joker or dr Chakwas...

[Izhalezan]

ITT, This fantasy world needs to be more realistic.

[WarAxe7]

incinerator950 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

WarAxe7 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Shin Yodama wrote...

I hear you War Axe, it just jarred with me when I saw it (and he does it all the time) because my country's military doesn't.

Do you guys have training for leaving the military ways behind you when leaving the military? We have a bit in the US, it's minor...only a couple of weeks but they are there to essentially inform us that once out we need to be able to function in the civilian world and snapping at everything outside of the protocol you used to follow is not the way to go.

I see too many former military people still act like what they were ordered to do and their former status bears relevance on those around them.

I don't know why you're trying to be peacably inquisitive with us.  I still think you are the resident troll who would not relent his position even if Commander Shepherd herself (I play FemShep) were to land at your parents' house, waltz up to your bedroom, kick open your door leaving a boot print on the Twilight poster, and tell you, "Yes, Darth, in the future we still salute with the right hand... because it's tradition."

That being said... yes, many former military people carry around much of the experience, leadership, and discipline they learned.  You don't think it "bears relevence on those around them"???   Employers would disagree with you.

I wish I had a medal to give you.

Except he got it all wrong, I'll post this again:

Employers look for people who can be on time, do their job, lead where
requried WITHOUT the stick up their behind.

It's true
they take into consideration military service BUT go in there and act
like you did in the military and you'll be back on the street in no
time. In the civilian world you don't yell at those around and you don't
fight like you used to because you don't have the authority, right or
leaders that can look the other way without getting fired themselves. In
the civilian world you don't have as much right through rank and you
need to be able to lead more through charisma.

The
point-rank system for picking up rank through E-5 is a complete joke.

Actually, E-1-E-4 is the joke.  I was actually in the service, thank you.

Thank you for the very kind comment.  

Yes... it's obvious to you, me, and several other posters on here... that Darth knows next to NOTHING about the military, nor people who have served in the military.  What he describes sounds more like some scene or  stereotype from a straight-to-video war flick that he watched when his folks thought he was doing his multiplication homework.

...but silly me, what do I know?  I only served 12 years in the Army and currently work at a facility with 2500 people of which 40% are former US or UK military and 5% are current US Navy (and a handful current UK Navy).

Yeah, I've only taken complete concentrations of study in military science and history... so what would I know about traditions?   And I've only been responsible for, as a civilian... at a civilian facility, training full-time military personnel on a nuclear platform.  But what do I know?

[WarAxe7]

incinerator950 wrote...

killingsheep24 wrote...

You're all gay.

Your mother was a hampster, your father smells of Elderberries. 

lol @ incinerator