53 réponses à ce sujet

[Ranger115]

This whole img/link thing turned into a ****storm ever since Chris Priestly posted this message:

"We consider this an exploit/cheating and are tracking it. Anyone found to use it will lose their tokens Tuesday morning before the auction begins.

Posting something and asking people to click on it is fine. Posting something that is going to automatically generate clicks for you without reader approval (willingness to click) is in our opinion tantamount to cheating and will not be tolerated.



:devil:"

The thread that Chris posted in was created 2 days ago on March 30th, it is called: BIOWARE - Is using the image trick to increase Bioware Bazaar points okay? . Pretty straightforward, with the question right there on the main page, you couldn't miss it. The only problem is, is that Chris posted this message today, on April 1st (yes I'm aware of April fools, but this is a bit too serious for that). See the problem?  For 2 days, we still only had a thread with a great question with no official response. Then, on April 1st Stanley Woo, a BioWare forum moderator(WHO DID NOTHING WRONG AND SHOULD BE LEFT ALONE) said this:


"Personally, I think it's a little sketchy, since you're essentially exploiting the bbCode of the forums to do it.



The threads were closed not because they were dedicated to the image tag exploit, but because there were already threads (three of them) dedicated to the link exchange and getting people more hits. Creating more threads was simply spam.



Most image tag exploit posts are edited and links are removed because they are similarly spamming the thread in which they are posted, usually in non-link exchange threads. Because the image tag exploit is a little sketchy, I'm a little stricter in when and where people can post them. Like regular links, I have little to no problem with people posting links to their signature blocks or in threads specifically designed to exchange links. Throwing the links around willy-nilly is what gets folks in trouble.



If anyone has any additional questions or concerns regarding our community or this message, please let me know. Thank you."

Basically, Stanley believed that using the image tag was a little sketchy, but he was banning people for spam, not for using the image tag. So that was the only word that could be considered close to official. So, since a lot people were already using it, and it seemed to be okay, more and more people started using it. I mean come on, if you think about it, BioWare is a big developer, if they saw this problem when it first started days ago, and realized that it would probably spread to a big part of their fanbase like wildfire, they would surely tell people that it is indeed a bad thing and cut it off before it gets out of hand. Well, apparently not; it did spread like wildfire, and only after it did a huge amount of damage, did BioWare call foul.

So now, it looks as if everyone who used the image tag is going to lose all of their points. Regardless of how many hours they spent spreading their links around the internet, or whatever, they lose out. So no, it's not that simple; there is a huge gray area, we asked pretty early on and you answered, but only after a large amount of your fanbase did it, because you didn't call foul until it was too late.

Another question this raises is that people, if they wanted to, could take links from other users and put it in their signature as an image. That user, would also lose all of their tokens. This is going to be a huge problem because we all know that someone out there is probably going to do it, I mean come on, there are people that are trolling the families of the girls who recently commited suicide. How are you planning to protect these people from being disqualified?

So in the end, BioWare, Chris, whomever, I hope you see that this issue isn't that simple. If you cut it off from the start, then it would've been fine. But it went on, and now a big part of the fanbase is essentially screwed because they weren't given an answer fast enough. I'm pretty sure that the people who used the image tag would understand if you just took the tokens that they earned with their unique url (preferably today, so then they can start spreading the link around legit). 

So right now, it looks as if a vast amount of people are going to be stripped of all their tokens. If this isn't the case, and you're only taking unique url tokens, PLEASE INFORM US. But if you are planning to take all the tokens, please just consider what I had to say, and please give details to the community, it would help out a lot.

Thanks, Ranger115

p.s. for people who think I took this whole thing too seriously, I was one of the users who spent hours trying to get their link out. I think that I should at least take SOME time to try and get some consideration for the people that used the image tag.

[Crixt]

Totally legit, but soon as Woo's battery recharges, he'll probably lock it and direct you to the other thread (ya know, the one with all the questions not being answered)

[TrueWindoze]

Probably no responses because it's late night, nice thread though. I agree with you =)

[Ranger115]

Thanks for the responses, makes me feel like writing this was worth it. Also, I don't have any intention on letting this thread die, if it falls behind I will bump it myself; and if locked I will copy it and paste in the the other thread. I already sent it to Chris himself lol. I'm on this thing!

[TrueWindoze]

Good work Tiger =p haha

[BanksHector]

I am happy that they decided to do something about people using it. I find it to be cheap and wrong. Now with that being said I do not believe they should take all the tokens away because they spend time trying to get tokens. They should take some away. If they was going to take all of them away then I guess I would rather then take none away from people that was doing it before they came out against it.I know some people did it cause alot of others was doing it so they figured it was ok, and the fact that it took them so long to say no makes me feel bad for them.

Modifié par BanksHector, 02 avril 2010 - 04:12 .

[Frederic-104]

there definitely needs to be more staff from bioware who are ACTIVE in the forums. It almost seems like it took everyone involved in bioware bazaar three days to collaborate, inform themselves of the problem, make a plan, and implement it.



it's like the global announcement for a competition between 48 states. Does one hand know what the other is doing? maybe they can't have mods answering forum questions because they're too busy trying to communicate with each other and reach consensus to be effective in any reasonable amount of time.



in short: I think BW is too caught in bureaucracy to mediate anything.

[Rive Caedo]

Ranger115 wrote...
Another question this raises is that people, if they wanted to, could
take links from other users and put it in their signature as an image.
That user, would also lose all of their tokens. This is going to be a
huge problem because we all know that someone out there is probably
going to do it

This is still the issue I'm most interested in.
This would become an especially large problem because I think there's a time period that overlaps where we can still earn tokens but auctions are open?
If so, and it shows the highest bidder (this is big if, I admit), I can easily see people trying to "boost" that player to deliberately attempt to get them disqualified.

Ranger115 wrote...
if locked I will copy it and paste in the other thread

I read that as "if locked I will copy it and paste it in another thread"
"Uz gonna get banned" I thought

[Bustercube]

I think you guys should have known it was wrong(Here come the flames) but you did it anyway, I saw that post on how to do it, but i didn't(Because it's cheating) so if they remove your tokens so be it. you didn't ask me if i wanted to visit your link you forced it on me.

[Mallissin]

They made no attempt to stop people from telling others about the problem nor fix the issues when both were well within their control. Some of the threads that detailed the method were not removed, merely locked and no response in the threads explicitly stated the method was off-limits.



Meanwhile, they could easily slip a piece of code to check the IMG BBCode for the http://social.bioware.com/brc/ url, but they didn't.



So, for nearly two days as people did it, they did little to try to stop it and now they're threatening to yank everyone who did it from the auction without warning.



Seems more sadistic than incompetent. Making no effort to stop the spread of it's use and making a policy (no warning before auction) that's ripe for causing a lot of drama.

[Grecko32]

[quote]Rive Caedo wrote...

[quote] snip

[quote]Ranger115 wrote...
if locked I will copy it and paste in the other thread[/quote]
I read that as "if locked I will copy it and paste it in another thread"
"Uz gonna get banned" I thought
[/quote]

Dont think a lot of people will care. If they do take the points, theres going to be rage. its all just a matter of communication. it took 2 days for a responce then they want to remove our tokens? uh should jumped on the thread when its even Title'd  as a question to any mod.

[Bustercube]

Mallissin wrote...

They made no attempt to stop people from telling others about the problem nor fix the issues when both were well within their control. Some of the threads that detailed the method were not removed, merely locked and no response in the threads explicitly stated the method was off-limits.

Meanwhile, they could easily slip a piece of code to check the IMG BBCode for the http://social.bioware.com/brc/ url, but they didn't.

So, for nearly two days as people did it, they did little to try to stop it and now they're threatening to yank everyone who did it from the auction without warning.

Seems more sadistic than incompetent. Making no effort to stop the spread of it's use and making a policy (no warning before auction) that's ripe for causing a lot of drama.

Do they need to tell you muder is wrong to? come on you must have realized that it wasn't right. Am I the only one who saw this as cheating?

BioWare tokens page...

Post *********** on Facebook, Twitter or elsewhere and receive 10 tokens per unique click per day for up to 500 tokens[/b]. After reaching 500 tokens each subsequent unique click will give you 1 token[/b]. Referral clicks are reset at midnight GMT -7.
Generate your ************** to start collecting tokens.

it says right there 10 tokens per Click not forced view.

Modifié par Bustercube, 02 avril 2010 - 04:32 .

[Frederic-104]

I chose not to participate in said exploit because I FORESAW ALL OF THIS. or at least I feared the possibility more than being outbid by farmers

[Ranger115]

Sorry I'm not really talking lol, I burnt myself out writing this thing, and it's late. But rly quickly...



@Bustercube - With all these people on both sides (seems split down the middle right now), you gotta admit that this isn't something that can easily be written off. I mean, a lot of these people that used the image tag would be more than happy to report somebody outright using loopholes. This morning I was glad to report three individual posts that stated the loopholes that people could use to get more tokens. And I did have a big smile on my face as soon as I saw they were deleted; hell I even made my status "glad to help catch those cheaters" or something like that.

[Bustercube]

Frederic-104 wrote...

I chose not to participate in said exploit because I FORESAW ALL OF THIS. or at least I feared the possibility more than being outbid by farmers

That makes you smart. unfortunatly I think bioware will cave and tell people not to do it anymore, but they won't take their tokens away. 1 angry fanboy is like an atomic bomb of bad PR.

[Rive Caedo]

Frederic-104 wrote...

I feared the possibility more than being outbid by farmers

Bad news:

[Mallissin]

Bustercube wrote...

Do they need to tell you muder is wrong to? come on you must have realized that it wasn't right. Am I the only one who saw this as cheating?

I'm fairly certain almost everyone at some point in their adolescence was told murder is wrong. We are taught morality, it's explained to us and we have laws laid out to describe what is wrong.

That aside, I'll be honest and say I don't see how the IMG thing is wrong. I think spamming links and begging people to click things is wrong, hence why I have Adblock stopping almost all web advertising. If someone could make a penny from me every time I went to a website and I didn't notice because it didn't annoy the hell out of me, more power to them.

And that's exactly what's happening. People with the IMG method can just chat along in the forums and get tokens for each person that reads something they wrote. I think it's a great idea, since it entices people to join into a more diverse array of discussions and gets people involved in the community.

Meanwhile, anyone more pious that only  puts a link into their signature has to do the same thing to advertise it, yet has to rely on someone clicking it? Come on. Why do that if you have the first option?

And then those who spam threads with links or sneak their link into a discussion, that's cheating too, right? They just conned you into clicking something unintentionally. Same deal with the link sharing threads themselves, it's really just a pyramid scheme...the more people in the thread, the more clicks everyone gets.

How are those scenarios better?

Modifié par Mallissin, 02 avril 2010 - 05:03 .

[Orion91]

So who else HATES April fools day?

[Rive Caedo]

Mallissin wrote...

And that's exactly what's happening. People with the IMG method can just chat along in the forums and get tokens for each person that reads something they wrote. I think it's a great idea, since it entices people to join into a more diverse array of discussions and gets people involved in the community.

And then those who spam threads with links or sneak their link into a discussion, that's cheating too, right? They just conned you into clicking something unintentionally. Same deal with the link sharing threads themselves, it's really just a pyramid scheme...the more people in the thread, the more clicks everyone gets.

How are those scenarios better?

Paragraph one was what I thought was rather neat about the whole situation. I saw Crixt in numerous threads making real contributions.

Now that's probably going to go away as people return to the link threads. Oh well.

[Mallissin]

I'd rather see a cap made, like maybe 1000-2000 unique clicks a day, and then let people do the IMG thing.



That should give people incentive to participate in the forum and level the playing field at the same time.

[Crixt]

This is the heart of the situation, this list of facts:

1) Only a very few number of people can get the top prizes

2) More people than can get prizes were already using this method to beat everyone

3) Days had gone by, and no moderator said anything about it being cheating, even when asked (the thread asking was up for a long time)

So, at THIS point in the competition, with no clear answer on if this method would lead to negative action, it seemed like a good 60/40 chance that it would continue to be allowed. After all, this was going on for a few days, and the forum was flooded with people in THIS forum, using it, assuming nothing was wrong. Wouldn't the reps have already come out and CLEARLY stated something if they saw that SO MANY people were using it, as soon as they saw it? There were two choices for everyone who wanted to win the good items.

A) Do not follow the trend, and if the moderators continue their silence, have NO chance at good items.

Follow the trend, and if the moderators don't continue their silence, risk reprimand.

Obviously, to anyone who really wanted a shot at the sweetest BioWare swag, the only possible answer was B.

Modifié par Crixt, 02 avril 2010 - 05:22 .

[Mallissin]

There are only 412 prizes, two per person means worst case only 206 people will win prizes versus the full 412.

They already pissed off hundreds if not thousands by limiting to the lower 48 states. Why ****** off more people with reprimands when they can just adjust the scoring system or auction allowances.

Take the unique click cap I suggested, or maybe adjust the auctions so there's a handicap. There are many ways they could create a handicap system.

They could make a person with far higher tokens need to bid more to be included. For instance, let's say someone with 40,000 tokens bids on an item when the average of all the other people is only 8000. The 40k guy might need to bid 3-5 times as many tokens to be included. Optionally, take it a step further and make it a class bidding, so that people below a certain amount can't bid. That would make people spend tokens faster on the highly desirable items and create a pretty interesting bidding war.

Or create a service charge, which could be a percentage of your bid no matter if you win that's also dependant on the average bidder's tokens. So, you don't have a big group of high rollers in charge!

Anyway, there are a lot of options still available instead of drastic punishment.

Modifié par Mallissin, 02 avril 2010 - 05:32 .

[taynar09]

And that's exactly what's happening. People with the IMG method can just chat along in the forums and get tokens for each person that reads something they wrote. I think it's a great idea, since it entices people to join into a more diverse array of discussions and gets people involved in the community.
[/quote]

I to thought it was a nice way to go about it. I hate spam and this sight wouldn't allow it yet they want us to do it to others. Not good, but I guess we should have all realized that this was about making them more money and the [img] trick doesn't do that.

Modifié par taynar09, 02 avril 2010 - 06:01 .

[Orion91]

I hate spamming links, it just pisses off the actual friends I have on facebook.

[Crixt]

Great points, taynar09.