164 réponses à ce sujet

[JedTed]

kelmar6821 wrote...

seriously

It was all them in Me1, but they took alot of ques from fans and Me2 seemed to be rubbish in comparison.

Go back to doing it your way for ME3, Bioware. Because ultimate, I want to play game designed by bioware, not a horde of talimancers.

So are you saying that Bioware, and developers in general, should never listen to the fans and stick to their original vision for the game no matter what?

Also, what do the "talimancers" have to do with this?  They didn't petition Bioware to improve ME2's combat mechanics.

[Tlazolteotl]

IoCaster wrote...

Tlazolteotl wrote...


Because the lower score was due to the gameplay being bad.
Baldur's gate also had bad gameplay, you know.

Oh boy, that's definitely something that I'd disagree with.

Let me rewind the clock a bit and get back to my original intent with bringing up Metacritic in the first place.

IoCaster wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...



You do know not everyone liked the first ME right because even with it's good story the gameplay was just bad. There have been topics, polls, and other stuff and ME2 always comes on top. The people who think ME2 sucked or perfer ME are at a minority.

I liked the gameplay in Mass Effect and it has a Metacritic score of 91% for X360 version. So guess what, your opinion that the "gameplay was just bad", is not everyones opinion. That's something that you seem to constantly accuse other people of doing.

The poster (kraidy1117) was making an argument based on majority opinion. I thought it would be useful and appropriate to point out that a majority of critical opinion on ME differed with his/her claim that "the gameplay was just bad". I firmly believe that he/she is entitled to that opinion, but I think that it's quite hypocritical to use the 'majority' argument only when it suits him/her and discard it when it doesn't.

I don't think that the gameplay in ME was bad at all. I'd also hazard a guess and assume that most of those reviewers didn't think so either or they would probably have knocked off more points from their score. In the end it doesn't really matter to me either way because it's all subjective and pointing that out to (kraidy1117) was the original intent of my post.

Umm, you really ought to actually read those reviews.
The ones with extremely high scores are obviously going to say everything is great (and they'd be wrong, 'cos the game is not perfect), but anything lower than the metacritic's average is going to point out, as flaws:

Framerates, driving, combat, AI ... these things are collectively labeled as "gameplay."

[Habelo]

Yes i am with you OP, ignore the retards they dont know what they like! Just give them the illusion that you care, they are to stupid to see the difference.

[Throw_this_away]

I think hardcare fans AND reviewers are to blame... bioware too. 

People bashed elevators... but they were clever ways to hide load screens.  Now we got boring load screens because people cried about elevators.  Why not spice up, add variety to, or shorten elevator rides instead?

People bashed the Mako... so it was removed.  Why not just improve it?  (note, the hammerhead is taking us in this direction).  The mako was not broken, it just needed tweaking/streamlining.

Nerd-rage fanboys loved ME1's most uninspiring (IMHO) character: Tali.  We get more of her in ME2.  It was surprising for me, being out of the loop of who was popular in ME1 (I was like WTF?  People actually like her? when I came to these forums...).  In some respects I do not mind this as she was essentially one of 12 characters... and including her did not take away from other characters.  I could still choose to ignore her, so that was good in my books.  

I agree with the OP that Bioware writers need to balance their own vision of the story with what Fans/critics want... without compramizing and making a title that shoots itself in the foot by trying to appeal to everyone and everything (the Star Wars Prequil movies... Jar Jar).  Fanboys do NOT represent popular opinion, forum complainers DO NOT represent overall opinion. 

What I am happy to see is the option where your game data gets sent to Bioware.  Then they can judge popularity of characters/weapons/etc based on actual gameplay... not 5-6 people spamming the Tali 3.0 thread with garbage and talk of Heavy Rain.        

Modifié par Throw_this_away, 02 avril 2010 - 02:16 .

[Tlazolteotl]

Huh ... you do realise very few people actually asked for the mako to get removed, or elevators to disappear, or the inventory to become nonexistent?

Those elements were flaws, no question.

Bioware decided to remove them instead of improve them, you know.

The squad combat was also clunky and dreadfully imbalanced, and they improved that ... and it's better. I'm perplexed as to why the other faulty elements weren't improved too.

[Tooneyman]

AS long as bioware doesn't act like the creater of fable peter boy. I support them. Please don't make a fable 2 type of game.

[Throw_this_away]

Terror_K wrote...

But it seems BioWare missed the point in a lot of the complaints. Most people didn't hate the Mako itself, but the terrain we had to drive on and the samey missions we had to perform with it. This resulted in the Mako being scrapped entirely rather than fixed and now lots of fans are saying they miss the Mako and the open exploration that came with it and that the N7 missions and the Hammerhead is a poor substitute. If the Mako had less awkward terrain and some more original locations and missions, then it would be fine. But BioWare didn't do that: they just threw it out the window and replaced it with as silly little action-platform section as DLC.

Same with the elevators. Everybody was ****ing "elevators this" and "elevators that" so BioWare ditched the elevators and returned to bland loading screens, completely avoiding the fact that the problem wasn't the elevators themselves so much as the fact they took so long. Many fans have said that if the elevators were shorter they wouldn't be a problem and that they're a far better and smoother transition between areas than a loading screen is. Once again, the ME2 devs missed the point and ditched something rather than make it work.

And that really sums up a lot of problems with ME2: BioWare read what people were saying, but it seems they didn't really pay attention to what the real problem was, and their solutions weren't even solutions so much as they were a complete scrapping and something completely different.
.

Very well staited.  I agree 100%.  

That being said... they did a great job with the other (bigger) issues... gameplay/combat is th cats ****, repetition is gone from the missions/side missions, all levels are spectacular, and texture pop in (it really was terrible in ME1) is basically gone.  

ME2 is a much better game as a result, but room has been left for ME3 to score a perfect 10. 

[slackbheep]

Another of the vocal minority that seems to prefer the original game to the sequel. My only complaint with ME2 is that to me it seemed to be more about Shepard gathering his team than the conflict with the Collectors than the coming conflict with the Reapers. Can chalk that up to middle game syndrome, though.

[IoCaster]

Tlazolteotl wrote...



Umm, you really ought to actually read those reviews.
The ones with extremely high scores are obviously going to say everything is great (and they'd be wrong, 'cos the game is not perfect), but anything lower than the metacritic's average is going to point out, as flaws:

Framerates, driving, combat, AI ... these things are collectively labeled as "gameplay."

I would guess that if you read any review that is, "lower than the metacritic's average" for any other game, you might get similar results. And yet the 91% aggregate score stands as a counterargument to the claim that it's universally regarded as having 'bad' gameplay. It might make better sense if we were talking about a game that scored 70-80%, but that's not the case here.

This still has nothing to do with my original intent in bringing up Metacritic in the first place. I've already explained that I found it useful as a simple device to point out some hypocrisy. If you're making a serious attempt to convince me that my opinion is wrong then it's a pretty misguided effort. *shrug*

[Homebound]

kelmar6821 wrote...

seriously

It was all them in Me1, but they took alot of ques from fans and Me2 seemed to be rubbish in comparison.

Go back to doing it your way for ME3, Bioware. Because ultimate, I want to play game designed by bioware, not a horde of -insert irrelevant bioware faction here-.

sorry for the double topic and originally blank OP

I agree. at one point Bioware needs to stop listening to the hordes of fans and recognize that its their game and its them that should decide what to do with it, for better or worse.

Seriously, if you listen to the fans too much, you'll just end up with a game full of dick jokes.
So enough with the fan pandering, or else you'll have a game thats as stale as a japanese rpg.

Modifié par Just_mike, 02 avril 2010 - 02:26 .

[DarthCaine]

Yeah, keep the scanning and don't add any RPG elements

Modifié par DarthCaine, 02 avril 2010 - 02:32 .

[NICKjnp]

kelmar6821 wrote...

seriously

It was all them in Me1, but they took alot of ques from fans and Me2 seemed to be rubbish in comparison.

Go back to doing it your way for ME3, Bioware. Because ultimate, I want to play game designed by bioware, not a horde of talimancers.

sorry for the double topic and originally blank OP

Yeah... the Talimancers get on my nerves.  I wish this could have kept her out of the game. 

[InvaderErl]

NICKjnp wrote...

kelmar6821 wrote...

seriously

It was all them in Me1, but they took alot of ques from fans and Me2 seemed to be rubbish in comparison.

Go back to doing it your way for ME3, Bioware. Because ultimate, I want to play game designed by bioware, not a horde of talimancers.

sorry for the double topic and originally blank OP

Yeah... the Talimancers get on my nerves.  I wish this could have kept her out of the game. 

*Pats NICK on the head.

One day they will cure your brain disease. I promise you.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 02 avril 2010 - 03:54 .

[DPSSOC]

Just_mike wrote...
I agree. at one point Bioware needs to stop listening to the hordes of fans and recognize that its their game and its them that should decide what to do with it, for better or worse.

This.  It's great that Bioware listens to the fans, but there comes a point where you have to say we're drawing the line here.

Just_mike wrote...
So enough with the fan pandering, or else you'll have a game thats as stale as a japanese rpg.

This too.

[InvaderErl]

I love the logic there.

Bioware shouldn't have listened to the fans when they redesigned the gameplay because that would make it stale and instead they should listen to other fans (and that's what you're saying, make no mistake about that) and NOT have changed the gameplay so that it won't become stale.

Wow.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 02 avril 2010 - 04:41 .

[Gavinthelocust]

While I am against having the fans make the game for the creator I like the changes that ME's popularity has had on ME2. If no one liked Tali we would probably only have Miranda and Jack, and we all know how two dimensional they are. But they should draw a line somewhere, in between Microsoft bling and the thousands of fans they need room to make it their game. If Star Wars only listened to the fans we would be getting terrible prequels with racist characters and over the top lightsaber battles.

****!

Modifié par Gavinthelocust, 02 avril 2010 - 04:43 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

The OP makes me hate humanity.



Your species needs to learn its place!

[InvaderErl]

YOU HUMANS ARE ALL RACIST!



Sorry.

Gavinthelocust wrote...
. If Star Wars only listened to the fans we would be getting terrible prequels with racist characters and over the top lightsaber battles.

****!

To be fair, the prequels were doomed from the start. Moreso because of Lucas than the fans I'd argue.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Damn Talimancers made the game rubbish in comparison!



And also I misread the OP even though it is only four sentences!



Madness abound!

[Pandemonic IX]

I think you're all exaggerating the idea that Bioware would ruin their game by only listening their fans.

Just have faith, Bioware knows what they're doing to make ME3 enjoyable for everyone, so stop your whining about how fans makes you all angry because they like to express their opinions of what things should be improved or changed in the sequel.

[binaryemperor]

kelmar6821 wrote...

chool77 wrote...

......dude.... ME2 is a great game ...

don't know what your smoking

Yes it is on its own

But as successor to ME1 I think its lacking.(i'm not the only one, not by a long shot)

After playing ME2 I can't even go back and finish my characters in ME1.  Yes, people have opinions of games, but ME2 definitely was not "rubbish"

[kraidy1117]

So what I am getting at is that Bioware should have not improved the gameplay and just had the same? ME2 should not have sold as well as it did then.

[IoCaster]

kraidy1117 wrote...

So what I am getting at is that Bioware should have not improved the gameplay and just had the same? ME2 should not have sold as well as it did then.

I'm curious to know how well it did sell. Do you have some numbers for us or at least a source with some numbers?