112 réponses à ce sujet

[GreedIsNoException]

@ Cornhole

Not exactly, we use tecnology to go to space. Our bodies might never get used to a gravitational change. For all we know it might end like Star Trek, where the humans and the pointy ear guys used to be the same species up until they colonized? Different planets. Something like that.... anyways you get my point, we could create two sepate species like that.

Modifié par GreedIsNoException, 06 avril 2010 - 01:05 .

[GreedIsNoException]

ModerateOsprey wrote...

GreedIsNoException wrote...

What is the next step for humanity?
Contamination turning us into devolution. You see our ancestors and their work, their science with primitive tecnology and this and aliens pop into people's mind.

The Nazca lines, the Egyption pyramids, Greek astronomy, the calender by the Mayans, the rockets in most ancient cultures.... it leads to many questions and no aliens to prove it.

IMO, space exploration is the next step - no brainer. We need the minerals and the 'rare earth' elements if humanity is to survive with our current rate of technological progression. 90% of the world's resources of rare-earth minerals are controlled by the Chinese, who will, without a doubt, be working on an extensive space programme, as is India.

But when will the aliens be finally announced real? I want to know. I mean I somewhat am a believer in alien conspiracies mind you. And I am facinated by things like Assasin's Creed 2's alien theory, The Fourth Kind and etc. That's why I loved Mass Effect I guess.

[ModerateOsprey]

GreedIsNoException wrote...

Not exactly, we use tecnology to go to space. Our bodies might never get used to a gravitational change. For all we know it might end like Star Trek, where the humans and the pointy ear guys used to be the same species up until they colonized? Different planets. Something like that.... anyways you get my point, we could create two sepate species like that.

I think this probable. Indeed, my belief is that, unless the sky pixies interfere, then we will likley branch into several different species.

Kevin Warwick of Reading University in England has already suggested this has begun to happen and in a pretty radical way. He is suggesting that we are becoming cyborgs and  that the next step for human evolution will be to augment the human genotype with machinery (on all scales). We, ourselves will initiate that augmentation. If that comes off, then living in space shouldn't be insurmountable - ever fancy being a Dalek 

[ModerateOsprey]

GreedIsNoException wrote...

ModerateOsprey wrote...

GreedIsNoException wrote...

What is the next step for humanity?
Contamination turning us into devolution. You see our ancestors and their work, their science with primitive tecnology and this and aliens pop into people's mind.

The Nazca lines, the Egyption pyramids, Greek astronomy, the calender by the Mayans, the rockets in most ancient cultures.... it leads to many questions and no aliens to prove it.

IMO, space exploration is the next step - no brainer. We need the minerals and the 'rare earth' elements if humanity is to survive with our current rate of technological progression. 90% of the world's resources of rare-earth minerals are controlled by the Chinese, who will, without a doubt, be working on an extensive space programme, as is India.

But when will the aliens be finally announced real? I want to know. I mean I somewhat am a believer in alien conspiracies mind you. And I am facinated by things like Assasin's Creed 2's alien theory, The Fourth Kind and etc. That's why I loved Mass Effect I guess.

They will be pronounced real, when we encounter them. Thee and me mate. If they can make it here from another star/galactic system, we would probably be viewed as no more than the sheep in the fields round my house.

Prolly not wise to get your science wholly from video games and stuff   That said, if it wasn't for great sci-fi writers then we wouldn't have had the imagination to create a lot of the tech we take for granted and many great scientists and technologists are big fans of science fiction.

[Mallissin]

Grandfather Paradox - You cannot travel back in time. Existence is not a giant onion of possible events or outcomes like many pieces of Sci-Fi like to paint. There is one version of reality and only one that is constantly changing. The only way to time travel would be to exactly reverse the changes in a grand area, which would be impossible or at least really frickin' hard to do.

Time Dialation: Time is a measurement of change. The flow of time does not change because change is slowed or hastened. The clocks mentioned are much like a wrist watch who's battery is running low and losing time. The flow of time in the area is not different, just the physical effects of change in it. Increasing your speed towards the fastest possible vibration ("speed of light") means the amount of change possible inside you increases (gamma mentioned above) as well, sort of like how higher speeds of processors (Mhz vs Ghz) can do more calculations per second. This means things like half-life of a material on the ship would speed up or chemicals in your body might erradically change, but you wouldn't perceive an increase in time. So contrary to popular belief, if you're flying a light year somewhere time still passes as a year for you and those on Earth but it's unlikely you'd survive the trip unless you were heavily protected (otherwise you'd most likely be slowly converted to a mass of gas).

Universi, as in plural:  Fiction. No observations to even remotely prove it. All based off fancy simulations.

Dark Matter: Exists. Aether.

AntiMatter: Just matter that spins or vibrates contrary to the average of matter around it. Not as big a deal as it's made out to be.

Plant or Animal?:  Life did not evolve into fancy ordered kingdoms, that's just how we classify them. No doubt the slug you mention will be classified in Animalia because it has an animal style cell wall.

Aubrey de Grey: Is mostly right, we age from corruption caused by cell division. Not sure how to reverse the problem without creating a system in our cells to correct long term corruption issues. Cancer is a corruption issue.

Space Exploration: Highly doubt we'll ever find a method to traverse great distances at our own scale. Our best bet is to look inward. Creating tiny worlds that people can be reduced down into at immensly small scales. Imagine creating tiny little planets that are millions of times smaller than a proton, terraforming them to suit our needs and then creating devices to move people from our scale down onto them.

[Onyx Jaguar]

ModerateOsprey wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

If I find out how why your body fails to keep up the healing process as we age I think I could be around long enough to do proper studies proving/disproving all of those steps.

Also that would probably be the next step for humanity.

I have posted this in a number of science threads.

There is a chap here in England researching exactly that.

His name is Aubrey de Grey. His statement to draw attention to his research is, 'The first human to live for 1000 years is alive today'. Wikipedia link here if you wanna follow up:

http://en.wikipedia..../Aubrey_de_Grey

Excellent information

[ModerateOsprey]

Mallissin wrote...

Grandfather Paradox - You cannot travel back in time. Existence is not a giant onion of possible events or outcomes like many pieces of Sci-Fi like to paint. There is one version of reality and only one that is constantly changing. The only way to time travel would be to exactly reverse the changes in a grand area, which would be impossible or at least really frickin' hard to do.

Time Dialation: Time is a measurement of change. The flow of time does not change because change is slowed or hastened. The clocks mentioned are much like a wrist watch who's battery is running low and losing time. The flow of time in the area is not different, just the physical effects of change in it. Increasing your speed towards the fastest possible vibration ("speed of light") means the amount of change possible inside you increases (gamma mentioned above) as well, sort of like how higher speeds of processors (Mhz vs Ghz) can do more calculations per second. This means things like half-life of a material on the ship would speed up or chemicals in your body might erradically change, but you wouldn't perceive an increase in time. So contrary to popular belief, if you're flying a light year somewhere time still passes as a year for you and those on Earth but it's unlikely you'd survive the trip unless you were heavily protected (otherwise you'd most likely be slowly converted to a mass of gas).

Not sure I want to discuss time concepts in a thread as disjointed as this, but pretty much agree with the thrust of your points.

Mallissin wrote...

Universi, as in plural:  Fiction. No observations to even remotely prove it. All based off fancy simulations.

Agreed. May as well say we are perched on the back of turtles standing on elephants, etc.

Mallissin wrote...

Dark Matter: Exists. Aether.

We know there is summat there, but we don't know what the f*ck it is, so let's call it 'dark' - sounds cool.

Mallissin wrote...

AntiMatter: Just matter that spins or vibrates contrary to the average of matter around it. Not as big a deal as it's made out to be.

Not quite. The existence of AM has been proved, we have just simply observed more 'normal matter'

Mallissin wrote...

Plant or Animal?:  Life did not evolve into fancy ordered kingdoms, that's just how we classify them. No doubt the slug you mention will be classified in Animalia because it has an animal style cell wall.

Quite.

Mallissin wrote...

Aubrey de Grey: Is mostly right, we age from corruption caused by cell division. Not sure how to reverse the problem without creating a system in our cells to correct long term corruption issues. Cancer is a corruption issue.

Sort of. His theory surrounds the concept of repairing mitochondrial DNA as it is the mutations within this DNA rather than nuclear DNA that is responsible for most aging effects. Mutations in this DNA type are environmental in nature.

Edit: Yes, cancer is a problem.

Mallissin wrote...

Space Exploration: Highly doubt we'll ever find a method to traverse great distances at our own scale. Our best bet is to look inward. Creating tiny worlds that people can be reduced down into at immensly small scales. Imagine creating tiny little planets that are millions of times smaller than a proton, terraforming them to suit our needs and then creating devices to move people from our scale down onto them.

Timescale is timescale - not insurmountable. We are talking way beyond a single human life span for this, even at ADG's most optimistic values. Does this matter? We are already constructing a TCP/IP protcol that can handle the severe latency of a space comms system, headed up by Vint Cerf, no less - the original creator of TCP/IP.

Research into what is available here on Earth as you mentioned can only help in establish the pure science required for progression in extra-terrestrial exploration - either robotic or manned.

Modifié par ModerateOsprey, 06 avril 2010 - 02:23 .

[ModerateOsprey]

Mallissin wrote...

Space Exploration: Highly doubt we'll ever find a method to traverse great distances at our own scale. Our best bet is to look inward. Creating tiny worlds that people can be reduced down into at immensly small scales. Imagine creating tiny little planets that are millions of times smaller than a proton, terraforming them to suit our needs and then creating devices to move people from our scale down onto them.

I forgot to add that in order to create things here on Earth, we need resources and we need 'em bad, real bad. I mentioned earlier that the Chinese control 90% of rare earth resources. We need a lot of those. Without those, all the good times stop,, no games, no phones, no computers, cyborgs, robots, monitors - forget it.

One asteroid, less than two years space flight away can give us enough of that stuff to last us millions of years at the current rate of consumption. We have no choice, but to go to space or we can simply wait for the Sky Pixies to help us out.

Modifié par ModerateOsprey, 06 avril 2010 - 02:13 .

[Mallissin]

ModerateOsprey wrote...

Not sure I want to discuss time concepts in a thread as disjointed as this, but pretty much agree with the thrust of your points.

Agreed. I love thrusting.

Agreed. May as well say we are perched on the back of turtles standing on elephants, etc.

Llama's, actually.

We know there is summat there, but we don't know what the f*ck it is, so let's call it 'dark' - sounds cool.

Unless you're into Quantum mechanics, in which case nothing is there and what we're seeing is just a manifestation of something else acting non-locally. At which point I facepalm and walk away.

Not quite. The existence of AM has been proved, we have just simply observed more 'normal matter'

Oh, I don't disagree. It exists, it's just not anti-matter. It's anti-normal.

Sort of. His theory surrounds the concept of repairing mitochondrial DNA as it is the mutations within this DNA rather than nuclear DNA that is responsible for most aging effects. Mutations in this DNA type are environmental in nature.

Edit: Yes, cancer is a problem.

All DNA corruption is environmental in nature. Cause by something harmful, either a stray wave of ultraviolet, a toxic chemical, an invasive bug or a material deficiency (which can be caused by any of the former). But the majority of the corruption happens at cell division, when the cell is at it's most vulnerable. They recently had a study show that mitochondrial DNA varries quite a bit WITHIN THE SAME PERSON! Had some pretty big implications for some forms of DNA evidence in trials.

http://arstechnica.c...r-forensics.ars

Timescale is timescale - not insurmountable. We are talking way beyond a single human life span for this, even at ADG's most optimistic values. Does this matter? We are already constructing a TCP/IP protcol that can handle the severe latency of a space comms system, headed up by Vint Cerf, no less - the original creator of TCP/IP.

Research into what is available here on Earth as you mentioned can only help in establish the pure science required for progression in extra-terrestrial exploration - either robotic or manned.

*Second post*

I forgot to add that in order to create things here on Earth, we need
resources and we need 'em bad, real bad. I mentioned earlier that the
Chinese control 90% of rare earth resources. We need a lot of those.
Without those, all the good times stop,, no games, no phones, no
computers, cyborgs, robots, monitors - forget it.

One asteroid,
less than two years space flight away can give us enough of that stuff
to last us millions of years at the current rate of consumption. We have
no choice, but to go to space or we can simply wait for the Sky Pixies
to help us out.

I don't doubt we'll conquer our solar system. It's traveling to other stars that seem very far out of reach. We probably won't be able to conquer the kind of nanoscale needed for what I suggest for at least another five hundred to a thousand years.

If someone can figure out how to get to other stars before then, I still doubt it'll be helpful. There are tons of stars, finding suitable places to live involves some pretty big exploration efforts.

Oh, and I'm planning on learning Mandarin!

[ModerateOsprey]

*SNIP* - good stuff. The big one is space travel and the small - agreed 

Mallissin wrote...

I don't doubt we'll conquer our solar system. It's traveling to other stars that seem very far out of reach. We probably won't be able to conquer the kind of nanoscale needed for what I suggest for at least another five hundred to a thousand years.

If someone can figure out how to get to other stars before then, I still doubt it'll be helpful. There are tons of stars, finding suitable places to live involves some pretty big exploration efforts.

Oh, and I'm planning on learning Mandarin!

Yeah, Mandarin is definitely a good choice.

One step at a time, we need to get a grip on what we can learn here AND do the best we can in outer space. Yes, both the nanosphere and the solar system can be conquered when the world leaders stop dancing around their handbags and realise that we are in deep sh*t.

We also need to sort out quantum computing as well, we will shortly have a need to do some some serious number crunching to get all this little lot organised.

Prob is, we can't even decide on a sensible storage medium. At least you can rely on paper being around for a 1000+ years - just. Digital mediums, bah, decided by the wooly jumpered marketing bods - got a reader for an 8 inch floppy anyone - only 20 to 30 years ago.

[Sigma Tauri]

Plant or Animal?:  Recently
people discovered a see slug that produces chlorophyll.  Chlorophyll is
one of the substences that plants are catagorized by.  So tell me is
this Sea Slug a Animal or Plant?  And don't say hybrid!

Wow, I'm surprised about this. I thought horizontal gene transfers occur only in single-celled organisms like bacteria or yeast, but this one's a very rare case. 

[Lord_Durin]

Mallissin wrote...



Dark Matter: Exists. Aether.

Half true. Dark Matter exists according to our calculations on how the universe was formed. Aether (or Ether, as i learned it) was a theoretical universal medium that was disprover around the time of Einstein. Basically, because all other known waves travel through some medium (sound through air, for example), the scientists thought that there must be some medium that light traveled through in order to travel between planets and stars. However, it was later proven (by Einstein) that light behaves as both a perticle and a wave, and because particles to not need to travel through a medium, neither does light.

but I digress from the topic of dark matter...

We know very little about dark matter, other that it has to exist in order for our ideas about the universe to make sense. the only proof there is concernes how quickely objects in the outer rim of the galaxies. Simply put, the farther out an object is, the faster its orbiting velocity. however, research has shown that these velocities stop increasing after a certian distance. after that it gets a bit technical and i dont remember all of it, eventually someone theorized that there is a dark matter "cloud" exists around every single galaxy.

We know even less about dark energy. The only thing we know is that it is resposnible for the expansion of the universe. we dont know how, we dont know where it comes from, we just know that it's there.

[Mallissin]

but I digress from the topic of dark matter...

We know very little about dark matter, other that it has to exist in order for our ideas about the universe to make sense. the only proof there is concernes how quickely objects in the outer rim of the galaxies. Simply put, the farther out an object is, the faster its orbiting velocity. however, research has shown that these velocities stop increasing after a certian distance. after that it gets a bit technical and i dont remember all of it, eventually someone theorized that there is a dark matter "cloud" exists around every single galaxy.

We know even less about dark energy. The only thing we know is that it is resposnible for the expansion of the universe. we dont know how, we dont know where it comes from, we just know that it's there.

I don't trust the longer distance studies. The data could be distorted by effects we don't understand yet. As I mentioned above, our own galaxy (a particle itself, albeit metaparticle) has characteristics we definitely don't understand and haven't accounted for yet. But there's no doubt in my mind the universe has a lot of dark matter.

Edit note: Sorry, didn't mean to kill the thread.

Modifié par Mallissin, 06 avril 2010 - 09:19 .