69 réponses à ce sujet

[LadyZaria]

I actually found it rather annoying on my first play through that my elven mage couldn't be queen.

Not that it should just be as easy as with a FHN, but there should be a way to get around the racism/classism.

My preference would be a scenario like this:

1) I've defeated the great Teyrn Loghain in single combat (didn't have anyone else duel him)
2) Alistair must be hardened (to get him to go along with you and not try to give up to duty)
3) Pass an intimidation/persuasion (obviously difficult) saying "Well, I could always just take *my* armies up to Soldier's Peak and leave you all to fend for yourselves."  (let's face it, the three armies may be adhering to the treaties to Grey Wardens, but their loyalty is to me personally, after all I did for them). OR "Any man who feels I do not deserve to be queen is welcome to duel me..." *pointed glance at Loghain's body*
4) Persuasion with Alistair where you convince him to stand by your words.

The current setup certianly makes sense lore-wise, and I don't really have a problem, per se. I just would have liked a way to get around it with my non-human noble females.

But in some ways, my non-HFNs felt a little like Link at the end of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. "You have proven yourself a worthy hero, and without you the world would be in shambles. But, screw you."

[nos_astra]

Or you could just not make him king.

[Efesell]

This country has a hard enough time recognizing elves as people, you think you'll be able to intimidate them into having one as Queen(Consort)?

An elven MAGE at that? Not a chance.

Modifié par Efesell, 02 avril 2010 - 11:29 .

[errant_knight]

Your PC may be a hero, but that doesn't change human perception of mages/elves/dwarves as a whole. And it doesn't make the nobles think it would be a good idea to add non-human or mage blood to the royal line. In terms of lore it would have seemed wildly unrealistic if one person could undo generations of prejudice and mistrust. It's more likely that humans/non-mages would consider the PC to be 'different' than others ot your kind than that they'd change their fundamental beliefs overnight.

[Stoomkal]

They would also be worried about an heir...



Remember that Connor, Eamon's son, can no longer inherit as he has become a mage.



A Dwarf or Elf could at least conceive an heir.

[Sarah1281]

Being a mage doesn't stop you from having children, the Chantry just doesn't want to give powerful, oppressed people political power. Not bein able to inherit prevents a conflict with the 'must send to Circle' convention. If anything, the dwarven characters are the ones who really CAN'T be Queen for heir purposes as their children will be half-dwarf as opposed to human. And Alistair's claim is shaky enough as it is for more complications.

[LadyZaria]

I know it is counter-intuitive with the lore, and I wouldn't really expect them to change it, juat wondering what others thought.



My mage was quite the bully



And she isn't really trying to undo the racism. She just says "Accept it, or I can either kill you here and now, or take my armies off to Soldier's Keep and let you deal with the Blight yourselves. Choose: Elven Queen, or Death."



I think the nobles would acquiesce in the name of self-preservation.

[Efesell]

I think the nobles would acquiesce in the name of self-preservation.

I think the best case scenario with your idea is that they would acquiesce until the Blight were over and then you would be in for a world of pain.

[Sarah1281]

Yeah, nobody is going to want someone who would leave them all to die at the mercy of the darkspawn as their leader.

[sylvanaerie]

Nice new Avatar Sarah. Your dwarf lass there is a cutie

[ejoslin]

I loved the endings of all my characters. Of course, they don't romance Alistair. There ARE other romance choices there if you don't want to be someone's mistress and want to be something other than a HNF.

[LadyZaria]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Yeah, nobody is going to want someone who would leave them all to die at the mercy of the darkspawn as their leader.

That's what makes moarchys so fun, the nobles' opinions are not necessarily (or even rarely) counted.

Those were just examples. There are other ways around it. If you do a lot of the side quests (which I do), you become very popular with the people. You've gone out of your way to show them kindness, and they've come to trust you.

Nothing is written in stone. Alistair (if your PC is a mage, in romance with him, he's king, and you sacrifice yourself) he completely overrides the Templars (and by extension, the Chantry) by granting the Mages complete autonomy.

Another way to work it in would to give a chance at the end of the game after you defeat the Blight. You've got everyone hailing you as a hero, everybody loves you, they'd probably be easy to convince then.

[Efesell]

That's what makes moarchys so fun, the nobles' opinions are not necessarily (or even rarely) counted.

It seems like the Ferelden monarchy has to be work pretty hard to get along with the Nobles. Like herding cats. I seem to recall a codex entry talking about how other countries look at Ferelden in bewilderment because of this.

[Daerog]

Shartan, or w/e that elf's name was, was also a great hero and even a friend of Andraste. Some hundreds of years later (I think) a political and militaristic mistake and the elves and Shartan are removed from the official Chant.

I think that Shartan being put back into the Chant would happen before any acceptance of an elf governing/ruling over human citizens could even be possible by a Chantry based/influenced nation.

I wonder if the Imperial Chantry kept the dissonant verses or not....

[LadyZaria]

ejoslin wrote...

I loved the endings of all my characters. Of course, they don't romance Alistair. There ARE other romance choices there if you don't want to be someone's mistress and want to be something other than a HNF.

Oh I know, and I also have a mod for the PC version that overrides the origin checks for choosing the "I will rule beside him" option.

But storywise, I think there could have been an effort made to make the story a little deeper there.

This isn't about "Omg, I want all my characters to have their happily ever after with Alistair."

My elven character was prettily heavily RPed in my head (yes, I'm a nerd ), and she was incredibly fed up with the discrimination she faced as both an elf and a mage, and being queen would give her the power to affect change in that area.

In many ways, my mage was a great deal like Morrigan: she respected power, and understood how to use it. (Picture a bunch of pompous nobles telling Morrigan she couldn't be queen if that's what she wanted). She also wants recognition for what she does, which is why she isn't content being the mistress in the background.

Like I said, I'm not looking to change the game, especially with workarounds in my own head. But how many other people found their strong-willed characters cut off at the Landsmeet (especially if you didn't look up spoilers and whatnot prior to your playthrough)

[sami jo]

These are the folks who don't want to accept Allistair or Anora because neither are noble enough, they hate mages and none of them seem to give a hoot about the elves being sold into slavery. As much as the endings for those romancing Allistair are less than satisfying, they are completely in keeping with the world and completely predictable. If you want to stay with your love, Allistair, then don't make him king. An elven mage will be completely unable to rule and would undermine what little ability Allistair will have to rule. I love this game, but happy endings aren't really it's forte.

[LadyZaria]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Shartan, or w/e that elf's name was, was also a great hero and even a friend of Andraste. Some hundreds of years later (I think) a political and militaristic mistake and the elves and Shartan are removed from the official Chant.
I think that Shartan being put back into the Chant would happen before any acceptance of an elf governing/ruling over human citizens could even be possible by a Chantry based/influenced nation.
I wonder if the Imperial Chantry kept the dissonant verses or not....

As I mentioned before, Alistair (given the right prior conditions) will go directly against the Chantry and give the Circle full autonomy (which of course could quickly lead to a mage's right to inherit a title being reinstated at some point).

It may be a Chantry based nation, but that doesn't mean they are the be-all end-all.

[SurelyForth]

My mage was perfectly happy being mistress and Chancellor. She gets to be with Alistair without the heir concerns and she has more freedom and power than she ever thought possible.

[The_mango55]

They didn't say "screw you." they made you the supreme commander (besides the King of course) of all of Ferelden's military. That's a pretty high position for even a noble to aspire to, for a dwarf or elf it's unheard of.



Just saving the day isn't enough to make someone king, he/she has to be nobility.

[7th_Phoenix]

SurelyForth wrote...

My mage was perfectly happy being mistress and Chancellor. She gets to be with Alistair without the heir concerns and she has more freedom and power than she ever thought possible.

Freedom > Being King/Queen

Go mage! I know how you feel @SurelyForth! 

[Srau]

7th_Phoenix wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

My mage was perfectly happy being mistress and Chancellor. She gets to be with Alistair without the heir concerns and she has more freedom and power than she ever thought possible.

Freedom + telling Anora she is a b**** at the landsmeet + pissing her saying you will always be around as Al' mistress > Being King/Queen

Go mage! I know how you feel @SurelyForth! 

Fix'd

Modifié par Srau, 03 avril 2010 - 12:36 .

[LadyZaria]

SurelyForth wrote...

My mage was perfectly happy being mistress and Chancellor. She gets to be with Alistair without the heir concerns and she has more freedom and power than she ever thought possible.

This is a good way out, but to my mage, even this felt like "second place". She's not one to settle. While there might have been concerns about an heir (and there are questions about whether even a HFN could provide an heir), that could have been worked around.

But clearly I'm alone in this.

/shrug

[Raiil]

I agree and disagree. I tend to not king Alistair simply because he doesn't want it, and my mage, who does not care for any member of then nobility except for Bann Teagan, doesn't want to boot the man she loves onto a throne he doesn't want.





I think on one hand, it would be great to shatter the socially acceptable boundaries of Ferelden. On the other hand, I think it would break a lot of the immersion. There are no great leaps and bounds made to improve the status of anyone in the game.

[ashez2ashes]

Why does everyone want to be Queen anyways? And why do they consider it to be a happily ever after ending? You won't be able to have an heir, and Alistair really doesn't want to be King. The poor guy doesn't want to be King at all. Even if you harden him, he's still unhappy (just quieter about it).





The "happiest" ending imho, seems to be the one where you go off and have Grey Warden adventures together. That's the one I vastly prefer... I don't know why everyone wants to stay at court, how boring...

[Sarah1281]

Nice new Avatar Sarah. Your dwarf lass there is a cutie

Thanks.

telling Anora she is a b**** at the landsmeet

When does this happen? If she betrays you? All of my characters have either actually intended to support her (with Alistair) or realized that someone willing to sell out their own father once it started becoming clear that he was a political liability would just as easily sell out some random Warden she just met. Although selling you out if you said you planned to kill Loghain would come as a bit more of a surprise, it's still in character, especially if you talk to her.

While there might have been concerns about an heir (and there are questions about whether even a HFN could provide an heir), that could have been worked around.

I don't think anyone's saying that that's fair or that they're happy that the system works that way, but the fact remains that that IS how the system works and abiding the coventions of the society is more satisfying then 'this mage who we all secretly think will turn us into frogs for looking at her funny should be Queen because she's good at fighting and loves Alistair.'