69 réponses à ce sujet

[LadyZaria]

I don't think anyone's saying that that's fair or that they're happy that the system works that way, but the fact remains that that IS how the system works and abiding the coventions of the society is more satisfying then 'this mage who we all secretly think will turn us into frogs for looking at her funny should be Queen because she's good at fighting'

She's more than that though. She's a hero. Throngs of people have gathered in Denerim during the coronation for a chance to see her. She's become a legend, and if given the rank of queen during the celebration, the people would have accepted her (it at least would have been a while before grumblings came up).



I just think that allowing driven, power-hungry females to take advantage of an opportunity to seize power (even if only deposed later, such as Alistair divorcing her at the beginning of Awakenings).



Again, this has nothing to do with loving Alistair. I actually agree with Ashesz2ashes that keeping him a Grey Warden with you is by far the most romantic option, and the best choice for a happily ever after ending.



I wouldn't mind seeing male characters get the same kind of option from Anora, but it seems an even more unlikely scenario because Anora is less pliable than Alistair.

[Sarah1281]

She's more than that though. She's a hero. Throngs of people have gathered in Denerim during the coronation for a chance to see her. She's become a legend, and if given the rank of queen during the celebration, the people would have accepted her (it at least would have been a while before grumblings came up).

All this was true of Loghain as well and yet a civil war started up the moment he claimed the regency even before he started with any of his more questionable acts. There's no proof he left Cailan to die or that he even could have saved them so that can't be all the problems the nobles had with him.

[Gill Kaiser]

At least you can still become Alistair's consort and either be appointed Chancellor, with the ear of the king, or become the Teyrna of Gwaren, one of the most important nobles in the country. That's not too shabby for an elf/mage.

[Addai]

So you'd like the opportunity to be a tyrant, OP? What good would it do to take Ferelden's armies (not your PC's personal army) to Soldier's Peak and have them swallowed by the Blight anyway? Or defeat the Blight and have the country descend into chaos as the civil war picks up again where it left off with Loghain?

Modifié par Addai67, 03 avril 2010 - 03:56 .

[Addai]

P.S. Just romance Zevran. My elven mage is quite happy with him.



<--

[LadyZaria]

Addai67 wrote...

So you'd like the opportunity to be a tyrant, OP? What good would it do to take Ferelden's armies (not your PC's personal army) to Soldier's Peak and have them swallowed by the Blight anyway? Or defeat the Blight and have the country descend into chaos as the civil war picks up again where it left off with Loghain?

That was just an idea, more of a threat to get the throne than an actual course of action. But as far being Ferelden's armies... not really. The dwarves, elves/werewolves, and mages/templars are fulfilling treaties to the Grey Wardens, not the Ferelden throne or nobility. And, as I am the de facto leader of the Ferelden Grey Wardens (Alistair defers to me already, and even Riordan treats my PC as an equal/leader. And all of these groups have interacted with me as the leader of the Ferelden Grey Warden's.

If I give them the order to march to Soldier's Peak, there is no one that is going to countermand that order.

But, it was only a half-baked idea. There are other plot devices that could be used.

[LadyZaria]

Addai67 wrote...

P.S. Just romance Zevran. My elven mage is quite happy with him.

<--

And again. Romance has NOTHING to do with it. My mage wanted the power. She came to care for Alistair later, but her initial goal was to make him king so she could be queen.

[Addai]

They are your army in the sense that they are obligated to help you fight a Blight, but not obligated to help you gain a throne or follow you away from the battle. I highly doubt the proud Orzammar dwarves or Dalish would go along with that.



I guess I like the fact that the game keeps to certain limitations either due to story lore or to NPC quirks. Otherwise it ends up being too Mary Sue. Your PC is already incredibly powerful and influential, and gets away with a lot.

[sylvanaerie]

ashez2ashes wrote...

Why does everyone want to be Queen anyways? And why do they consider it to be a happily ever after ending? You won't be able to have an heir, and Alistair really doesn't want to be King. The poor guy doesn't want to be King at all. Even if you harden him, he's still unhappy (just quieter about it).


The "happiest" ending imho, seems to be the one where you go off and have Grey Warden adventures together. That's the one I vastly prefer... I don't know why everyone wants to stay at court, how boring...

My Dalish did that and it was my favorite ending so far.  I got land for my people left Anora on the throne and Alistair and my lil rogue went off to have Gray Warden adventures together.  I  freedom more than the throne and Alistair even more than that.

In fact if there were an option to make Teagan king (cause he's the ONLY noble in the Landsmeet who actually seems to have his eggs all in one basket I would!)  Though since he hates politics and leaves that to Eamon I wouldn't do that to him I guess either.

LadyZaria you should go for Chancellor. Its as good as being queen if you keep Alistair single.  He tends to go off and do stuff leaving your PC in charge of the throne.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 03 avril 2010 - 04:18 .

[Addai]

LadyZaria wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

P.S. Just romance Zevran. My elven mage is quite happy with him.

<--

And again. Romance has NOTHING to do with it. My mage wanted the power. She came to care for Alistair later, but her initial goal was to make him king so she could be queen.

Ah, sorry, I missed that.  You do, however, have almost the same amount of power as chancellor.  The epilogue card even says that Alistair defers a great deal to you, the same sort of card you get if you marry him in a poltiical marriage.

[LadyZaria]

Addai67 wrote...

LadyZaria wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

P.S. Just romance Zevran. My elven mage is quite happy with him.

<--

And again. Romance has NOTHING to do with it. My mage wanted the power. She came to care for Alistair later, but her initial goal was to make him king so she could be queen.

Ah, sorry, I missed that.  You do, however, have almost the same amount of power as chancellor.  The epilogue card even says that Alistair defers a great deal to you, the same sort of card you get if you marry him in a poltiical marriage.

This is true.

I have no real problem with the game story itself. I've been pretty happy with it overall.

But, considering they give you the option to be pretty selfish and evil, and yet you can't even attempt (even unsuccessfully, sent to fight the Archdemon, then return to meet the same fate as Loghain/Alistair) to snag the throne for yourself. (Even as a human noble, as the son/daughter of a Teyrn, you have nearly as much right to rule as Anora does, especially since the fact that there is question at all if she should retain the throne seems to suggest that being Cailan's wife doesn't count for a whole lot).

[RBCharger]

On the time I played a female elf mage, I was romancing Alistair so thought it would be a good idea to make myself queen on that playthrough. The option was open to me, or so I thought, when I could choose the dialog option of "Alistair will rule with me as his queen". When Alistair publicly rebuffed me by saying 'don't be silly, mages can't be queen' or something like that, I sat here at my keyboard as if he had slapped me. I was not annoyed at the game for not allowing me to be queen but at Alistair. I made him sacrifice himself by killing the archdemon.



The next playthrough, he sat in camp the whole game until Anora had him dragged out of the Landsmeet to be executed. I am a male in RL but I guess it is true what they say about a woman scorned. haha



In this world we play in, they don't trust mages enough to let them be rulers. They keep most of them in a mage prison to protect the public. It is a wonder to me that the mages of the Mage Collective aren't wearing some disguise or at least not acting like they are tranquil.

[mhendon]

ashez2ashes wrote...

Why does everyone want to be Queen anyways? And why do they consider it to be a happily ever after ending? You won't be able to have an heir, and Alistair really doesn't want to be King. The poor guy doesn't want to be King at all. Even if you harden him, he's still unhappy (just quieter about it).


The "happiest" ending imho, seems to be the one where you go off and have Grey Warden adventures together. That's the one I vastly prefer... I don't know why everyone wants to stay at court, how boring...

I agree (mostly) with this.  I was somewhat peeved at first that my dalish elf couldn't be queen.  Maybe the Nobles wouldn't like it, but I know at least the gossips would.  (One of the gossips can say "They should have just made that grey warden queen in my opinion.")  I think it would be totally amazing if my elf could change ferelden...but realistically that isn't in keeping with the world.

I understand this, so I just make due with not making alistair king and making him sleep with morrigan (UGH!!!! THE PAIN) so that we can go have grey warden adventures together, an ending that I like the best now. 

/Shrug   You can't always have what you want, but I don't blame you forbeing annoyed.  The thing that DOES ****** me off is the reason he breaks up with you afterwards if you make him king.  Obviously doesn't apply to HFN.  There are ways around that, obviously, but it still annoys me.

[LadyZaria]

mhendon wrote...

ashez2ashes wrote...

Why does everyone want to be Queen anyways? And why do they consider it to be a happily ever after ending? You won't be able to have an heir, and Alistair really doesn't want to be King. The poor guy doesn't want to be King at all. Even if you harden him, he's still unhappy (just quieter about it).


The "happiest" ending imho, seems to be the one where you go off and have Grey Warden adventures together. That's the one I vastly prefer... I don't know why everyone wants to stay at court, how boring...

I agree (mostly) with this.  I was somewhat peeved at first that my dalish elf couldn't be queen.  Maybe the Nobles wouldn't like it, but I know at least the gossips would.  (One of the gossips can say "They should have just made that grey warden queen in my opinion.")  I think it would be totally amazing if my elf could change ferelden...but realistically that isn't in keeping with the world.

I understand this, so I just make due with not making alistair king and making him sleep with morrigan (UGH!!!! THE PAIN) so that we can go have grey warden adventures together, an ending that I like the best now. 

/Shrug   You can't always have what you want, but I don't blame you forbeing annoyed.  The thing that DOES ****** me off is the reason he breaks up with you afterwards if you make him king.  Obviously doesn't apply to HFN.  There are ways around that, obviously, but it still annoys me.

Thanks

That was the main point of my thread, to see if other people would have *liked* to have had more options at the Landsmeet.

As far as in-keeping with the lore and such, they did a great job. And they would never make everyone happy if they tried to balance it out a bit more.

I just felt they could have opened it up a little bit more.

[ejoslin]

If you want POWER, though, being his wife is not the best way. The way to be the real ruler of the country is to not harden Alistair, make him solo king, and then become his Chancellor. You're the one on the throne, and whenever you leave court, everything grinds to a halt.

[nos_astra]

Plus, even though it is an open secret who is the real power behind the throne if anything is seriously going amiss Alistair may still be the one who they'd want to hang. Perfect for the power-grabbing mage/dwarf/elf. ;-)

[Addai]

In reality, the fact that you can become either chancellor or teryn(a) of Gwaren or both as a mage/elf/dwarf is unprecedented. I would say that it almost breaks game lore, too, except you really do distinguish yourself as a great hero. But people still comment about the fact that Loghain is a commoner, leave alone someone being elven or a mage and attaining such high status.

A couple of drunk gossips do mention the Warden becoming queen, but my elves/mages have heard enough other comments to know that even being chancellor is thin ice. The minute you do something that is politically unpopular, you know there would be riots about the "knife ear."  That is even if you could get it past the nobles, which I'm pretty sure would never fly.

Modifié par Addai67, 03 avril 2010 - 08:18 .

[LadyZaria]

klarabella wrote...

Plus, even though it is an open secret who is the real power behind the throne if anything is seriously going amiss Alistair may still be the one who they'd want to hang. Perfect for the power-grabbing mage/dwarf/elf. ;-)

Good angle!


Over the course of this thread though, I've come to love the idea of an ignoble end to my warden. Right now, live or die, good or evil, I'm a hero. I think having the option to be the opposite that would make for an interesting ending.

Eamon: "Warden, Choose the next ruler of Ferelden"

Warden: "Me!"

Another Character: "You can't rule because you're an <X>. <X>'s can't be king/queen"

Warden: "Then screw you guys, I'm going home. And I'm taking my armies with me"

<Representatives of the armies who entered with Riordan speak up>

Leader: "Now wait just a bloody minute. We promised to help you against the Blight. Not hole up in Soldier's Peak and let Ferelden go to hell."

Anora/Alistair: "Traitor! Riordan says that you have to help against the Archdemon because we need all the Wardens we can lay our hands on, but after the battle, you're going to be executed!"

Warden: "Crap."

<Morrigan's ritual can still be accepted>

<Final Battle, Loghain/Alistair won't let you make the killing blow because a traitor doesn't deserve the honor.>

<At the coronation, instead of being hailed as a hero, you are dragged in in chains, and executed.>

Epilogue: Your treason wiped any honor your name might have held after serving the people of Ferelden. Despite your great efforts to unite the armies of Ferelden, your name went down in history as nothing more than a traitor."


Obviously with better writing

[Shade of Wolf]

I totally agree LadyZaria, I mean it was sort of embarassing failing th persuasion when it was ata max, and then hardened Alitstair says 'they barely want me as King', yet you've just slaughtered Loghain...

[nos_astra]

Some people just can't get over it when their totally awesome Mary-Sue-PC doesn't get everything they want. A hard life indeed!

Modifié par klarabella, 03 avril 2010 - 09:23 .

[LadyZaria]

klarabella wrote...

Some people just can't get over it when their totally awesome Mary-Sue-PC doesn't get everything they want. A hard life indeed!

o.O

My Elven Mage PC is anything but a Mary-Sue. It's about adding an ending where you aren't the illustrious hero. The option to end as either a power-grabbing tyrant, or a die a traitor to your country is a dynamic I think could be fleshed out to provide a deeper plot.


This is NOT "Omg I'm perfect, and Alistair is perfect, and we're perfect together, and I want my fairy tale ending."

Modifié par LadyZaria, 03 avril 2010 - 09:32 .

[nos_astra]

My last post was more adressed to Shade of Wolf.



But I still don't see how more damage to the lore of the world would provide more depth? As people pointed out you can have considerable political influence if you want to. Being princess-consort/queen-consort is nothing that makes you more influential - it's a title that basically says you are married to the King and a vessel for the royal heirs.

[LadyZaria]

klarabella wrote...

My last post was more adressed to Shade of Wolf.

But I still don't see how more damage to the lore of the world would provide more depth? As people pointed out you can have considerable political influence if you want to. Being princess-consort/queen-consort is nothing that makes you more influential - it's a title that basically says you are married to the King and a vessel for the royal heirs.

Perhaps becoming queen could be disastrous lore-wise, but what about a traitorous, and disasterous, power grab?

I dunno. I just felt a little confined as a non-noble female (I've only played females thus far, so can't speak to a male PC RP).

Hailed as the hero of Fereleden. Nifty. I'm gonna get that no matter what.

Serve as Chancellor? Great for backstaging puppetmasters, but not really fitting the spitfire personality of that particular character. Her attitude (to quote Talladega Nights) was "If you ain't first, you're last", and so the position of chancellor is one that she would not accept, at least not without a lot more argument than Alistair blowing her off.

Stay Alistair's mistress? Again, it's a secondary position where she would be second to whatever cow Alistair decided to officially marry.

Go off and rebuild the Grey Wardens? Eh, it works. But the Grey Wardens don't hold the amount of influence and recognition she craves.

Take off and go wandering around? No way. There is no power or influence in being a vagabond.


A powergrab attempt, even a failed one, would have satisfied the motivations for that character a whole lot better. And considering they really seemed to build up a world where you could be as good or evil/powermad as you wanted, it was a lackluster ending.

[nos_astra]

LadyZaria wrote...
Stay Alistair's mistress? Again, it's a secondary position where she would be second to whatever cow Alistair decided to officially marry.

A lot of people assume that the Queen will be his wife and share his life. Why?

I always assumed that the mistress will be his wife in all but name while the Queen is there on official occasions and planned meetings in the royal bedchamber every once in a while.

Being King is not a punishment, no one can tell the King what to do. If one of my PCs went for the mistress ending she would encourage the relationship to be an open secret and the choice for a Queen would certainly not be an innocent, clueless girl who's secretly dreaming of fairies and unicorns. That would be unfair.

After a few years when the Grey Warden curse of almost infertility is showing its ugly face they can stop the pretense altogether and make preparations for a new royal line (Cousland, Guerrin).

You're free to imagine whatever you wish - until Bioware pulls the canon card. ;-)

Modifié par klarabella, 03 avril 2010 - 12:54 .