69 réponses à ce sujet

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

ashez2ashes wrote...

Why does everyone want to be Queen anyways? And why do they consider it to be a happily ever after ending? You won't be able to have an heir, and Alistair really doesn't want to be King. The poor guy doesn't want to be King at all. Even if you harden him, he's still unhappy (just quieter about it).


The "happiest" ending imho, seems to be the one where you go off and have Grey Warden adventures together. That's the one I vastly prefer... I don't know why everyone wants to stay at court, how boring...

QFT

Even my human noble doesn't become Queen in any of my games. Why the hell would I want to be Queen? The title and position really boils down to "royal broodmare", something you won't be able to do anyway.

Besides, as ashez pointed out, being king, even hardened, is still not Alistair's happiest choice. Why subject him to that? Even if he does a better job hardened, he still isn't terribly happy, just more willing. On the throne, your personal life and biz becomes the property of the country. Away from the throne, your lives are your own.

Queen is my least favorite ending. The few times I've made Alistair king, I was quite happy to be mistress. Royal mistresses had more power and freedom than did legal wives, and usually recieved more love and affection.

[kaimanaMM]

ashez2ashes wrote...

Why does everyone want to be Queen anyways? And why do they consider it to be a happily ever after ending? You won't be able to have an heir, and Alistair really doesn't want to be King. The poor guy doesn't want to be King at all. Even if you harden him, he's still unhappy (just quieter about it).


The "happiest" ending imho, seems to be the one where you go off and have Grey Warden adventures together. That's the one I vastly prefer... I don't know why everyone wants to stay at court, how boring...

This.

What I don't get it is why mages / elves want to be Queen.  It was an alright ending for my HNF, but my City Elf wanted none of it, heck she didn't even want to be Bann and my Mage?  No thanks, the last thing she wanted was to be leashed to anything like that.  I understand wanting power, but (as a mage especially) being Queen isn't power, it's just another cage.  Not as bad as the Tower, but almost. 

My favorite endings involve my characters going off to do some righteous Grey Wardening.  Much more fun than sitting around Denerim solving everyone's problems and wiping noses.

[LadyDamodred]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

ashez2ashes wrote...

Why does everyone want to be Queen anyways? And why do they consider it to be a happily ever after ending? You won't be able to have an heir, and Alistair really doesn't want to be King. The poor guy doesn't want to be King at all. Even if you harden him, he's still unhappy (just quieter about it).


The "happiest" ending imho, seems to be the one where you go off and have Grey Warden adventures together. That's the one I vastly prefer... I don't know why everyone wants to stay at court, how boring...

QFT

Even my human noble doesn't become Queen in any of my games. Why the hell would I want to be Queen? The title and position really boils down to "royal broodmare", something you won't be able to do anyway.

Besides, as ashez pointed out, being king, even hardened, is still not Alistair's happiest choice. Why subject him to that? Even if he does a better job hardened, he still isn't terribly happy, just more willing. On the throne, your personal life and biz becomes the property of the country. Away from the throne, your lives are your own.

Queen is my least favorite ending. The few times I've made Alistair king, I was quite happy to be mistress. Royal mistresses had more power and freedom than did legal wives, and usually recieved more love and affection.

I get to be married to the man I love doing something I love?  As a noble, my life has never been my own, so I don't really know any different.  I was born and bred to rule.  *shrugs*  And Alistair, hardened, does want to be king.  He will flat out tell you that in some of the dialogue options.

As far a RL royal mistresses vs wives go, you're probably right.  Except for the fact that in the game you and Alistair are already madly in love.  I know everyone will see it differently, that's the great part of the game.  But even my non-HNF chars have made Alistair king b/c they know he will be better than Anora.  If the game taught us anything, it's that there are bigger concerns than just ourselves.  All of my chars, no matter what their character when they started out, eventually realize that.

[Srau]

Sarah1281 wrote...

telling Anora she is a b**** at the landsmeet

When does this happen? If she betrays you? All of my characters have either actually intended to support her (with Alistair) or realized that someone willing to sell out their own father once it started becoming clear that he was a political liability would just as easily sell out some random Warden she just met. Although selling you out if you said you planned to kill Loghain would come as a bit more of a surprise, it's still in character, especially if you talk to her.

I don't remember exactly the playthrough but since she usually makes the mistake to tell Cauthrien i am kidnapping her it may be linked yes.
The sentence itself is when Eamon asks you your choice for ruler at the landsmeet, you can ask to talk to Anora or Alister alone.
There, you tell her she is a b**** and she answers something like i am childish, and nowhere near mature to govern a country or choose who should govern it (one more reason to push her from the top of the tower with my HNF toon ).

[sylvanaerie]

Srau wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

telling Anora she is a b**** at the landsmeet

When does this happen? If she betrays you? All of my characters have either actually intended to support her (with Alistair) or realized that someone willing to sell out their own father once it started becoming clear that he was a political liability would just as easily sell out some random Warden she just met. Although selling you out if you said you planned to kill Loghain would come as a bit more of a surprise, it's still in character, especially if you talk to her.

I don't remember exactly the playthrough but since she usually makes the mistake to tell Cauthrien i am kidnapping her it may be linked yes.
The sentence itself is when Eamon asks you your choice for ruler at the landsmeet, you can ask to talk to Anora or Alister alone.
There, you tell her she is a b**** and she answers something like i am childish, and nowhere near mature to govern a country or choose who should govern it (one more reason to push her from the top of the tower with my HNF toon ).

It happens if you don't support Anora in the Landsmeet (I did it once to see what she says).  After you kill Loghain she makes her powerplay for the throne and you can call her a "ruthless b itch" if you say you want to talk to her before making your decision.  For me that was the best part. Then putting Alistair on the throne with my Cousland girl made me feel more satisfaction than I usually do.  For all her hero worship she was willing to throw her father under the bus if I supported her.  Throwing me under it instead when i told her no was just that much more satisfying when i took everything from her (at the end I asked for the title and got Teryna of Gwaren added to Queen).  I imagined after the coronation we had a nice public execution for Anora since she refused to give the oath of fealty to her king.  It doesn't say that but I can still dream eh?

[Srau]

sylvanaerie wrote...
at the end I asked for the title and got Teryna of Gwaren added to Queen

Oh yes, never tried this one.
Humm sweet sadistic behaviour toward Anora, love it, gonna redo me Queen ending just to ensure that

Queen of Ferelden, Teyrna of Gwaren and Arlessa of Amaranthine ... humm Howe's shoes are nicely fitting lol

Modifié par Srau, 03 avril 2010 - 03:51 .

[Addai]

klarabella wrote...

I always assumed that the mistress will be his wife in all but name while the Queen is there on official occasions and planned meetings in the royal bedchamber every once in a while.

That's pretty much how it goes, esp. now that Awakening has changed the epilogues.  The mistress gets top billing in certain respects.  I see my Dalish warden/mistress of the king as Chani to Anora's Irulan.

Having your Warden go down in flames as a traitorous tyrant would be too complicated for story continuity.  Everyone ends up roughly in the same place.

[sylvanaerie]

Srau wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
at the end I asked for the title and got Teryna of Gwaren added to Queen

Oh yes, never tried this one.
Humm sweet sadistic behaviour toward Anora, love it, gonna redo me Queen ending just to ensure that

Queen of Ferelden, Teyrna of Gwaren and Arlessa of Amaranthine ... humm Howe's shoes are nicely fitting lol

OOOOH yea.  He might have thought he 'deserved more' but he didn't have the stones to hold onto what he grabbed.  The only thing I regret about killing him was Tim Curry had no more lines in the game afterward.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Addai67 wrote...


That's pretty much how it goes, esp. now that Awakening has changed the epilogues.  The mistress gets top billing in certain respects.  I see my Dalish warden/mistress of the king as Chani to Anora's Irulan.

 

This is the best example of the situation I have ever seen yet. Paul Atredies marries Irulian simply to secure the throne and settle disputes. Yet as he frequently reminded Irulian, she would never share his bed, and Chani was his wife in all but name.

Actually, Irulian is an excellent comparison to Anora. Both manipulative, ruthless, cunning, plotting females trained for their roles.

[sylvanaerie]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Addai67 wrote...


That's pretty much how it goes, esp. now that Awakening has changed the epilogues.  The mistress gets top billing in certain respects.  I see my Dalish warden/mistress of the king as Chani to Anora's Irulan.

 

This is the best example of the situation I have ever seen yet. Paul Atredies marries Irulian simply to secure the throne and settle disputes. Yet as he frequently reminded Irulian, she would never share his bed, and Chani was his wife in all but name.

Actually, Irulian is an excellent comparison to Anora. Both manipulative, ruthless, cunning, plotting females trained for their roles.

What story/game/medium are you guys quoting? I don't know these people.  I understand by the relationships what they are to each other (and I see being Ali's mistress in much the same light) but I don't know the others.

[LadyDamodred]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Addai67 wrote...


That's pretty much how it goes, esp. now that Awakening has changed the epilogues.  The mistress gets top billing in certain respects.  I see my Dalish warden/mistress of the king as Chani to Anora's Irulan.

 

This is the best example of the situation I have ever seen yet. Paul Atredies marries Irulian simply to secure the throne and settle disputes. Yet as he frequently reminded Irulian, she would never share his bed, and Chani was his wife in all but name.

Actually, Irulian is an excellent comparison to Anora. Both manipulative, ruthless, cunning, plotting females trained for their roles.

Except I sorta felt bad for Irulan.  Especially the Irulan in the remake of Dune and Children of Dune.  Anora, however....  Yeah, I just hate her.

[Sarah1281]

I totally agree LadyZaria, I mean it was sort of embarassing failing th persuasion when it was ata max, and then hardened Alitstair says 'they barely want me as King', yet you've just slaughtered Loghain...

Yeah, that would be really embarrassing and unless your non-HNF character is delusional (as the character would have a far better idea of the prejudice they face that would stop it from working out than the people playing the game) they probably wouldn't try to be Queen at the Landsmeet. At the very least they'd ask Eamon or someone if it were possible. I just wish it weren't an option to say that because, really? There's no point and it just makes you look stupid.

[Sarah1281]

I totally agree LadyZaria, I mean it was sort of embarassing failing th persuasion when it was ata max, and then hardened Alitstair says 'they barely want me as King', yet you've just slaughtered Loghain...

Yeah, that would be really embarrassing and unless your non-HNF character is delusional (as the character would have a far better idea of the prejudice they face that would stop it from working out than the people playing the game) they probably wouldn't try to be Queen at the Landsmeet. At the very least they'd ask Eamon or someone if it were possible. I just wish it weren't an option to say that because, really? There's no point and it just makes you look stupid.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 03 avril 2010 - 05:55 .

[BlueMew]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

ashez2ashes wrote...

Why does everyone want to be Queen anyways? And why do they consider it to be a happily ever after ending? You won't be able to have an heir, and Alistair really doesn't want to be King. The poor guy doesn't want to be King at all. Even if you harden him, he's still unhappy (just quieter about it).


The "happiest" ending imho, seems to be the one where you go off and have Grey Warden adventures together. That's the one I vastly prefer... I don't know why everyone wants to stay at court, how boring...

QFT

Even my human noble doesn't become Queen in any of my games. Why the hell would I want to be Queen? The title and position really boils down to "royal broodmare", something you won't be able to do anyway.

Besides, as ashez pointed out, being king, even hardened, is still not Alistair's happiest choice. Why subject him to that? Even if he does a better job hardened, he still isn't terribly happy, just more willing. On the throne, your personal life and biz becomes the property of the country. Away from the throne, your lives are your own.

Queen is my least favorite ending. The few times I've made Alistair king, I was quite happy to be mistress. Royal mistresses had more power and freedom than did legal wives, and usually recieved more love and affection.

*agrees*

None of the characters I played would want to be queen or prince. Or think marriage is a prerequisite for love or happiness.

I think my elven mage's ending with (btw unhardened and unkinged) Alistair is fine. Quite romantic, even. Just hope they don't ruin it in the future. But then I'll try and play another character who is not a noble, possibly not human and might not even be female.
Right now, I'm happy as it is.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

LadyDamodred wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...



This is the best example of the situation I have ever seen yet. Paul Atredies marries Irulian simply to secure the throne and settle disputes. Yet as he frequently reminded Irulian, she would never share his bed, and Chani was his wife in all but name.

Actually, Irulian is an excellent comparison to Anora. Both manipulative, ruthless, cunning, plotting females trained for their roles.

Except I sorta felt bad for Irulan.  Especially the Irulan in the remake of Dune and Children of Dune.  Anora, however....  Yeah, I just hate her.

I don't, but that's because I concentrate more on the book version. In the book versions, Irulian is every bit conniving, scheming Bene Geserit princess who takes part in a plot that leads to Chani's demise.

@sylvanaerie: The characters we are discussing are from Frank herbert's Dune series of books, as well as the movie adaptions that followed. The Dune series is my favorite sci-fi series/universe of all time. It is quite heavily developed.

[Addai]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
I don't, but that's because I concentrate more on the book version. In the book versions, Irulian is every bit conniving, scheming Bene Geserit princess who takes part in a plot that leads to Chani's demise.

And I'm sure Anora would do the same if she felt the mistress Warden was getting in her way.  All the more reason to keep Zevran around to watch your back.

[Alikain]

klarabella wrote...

LadyZaria wrote...
Stay Alistair's mistress? Again, it's a secondary position where she would be second to whatever cow Alistair decided to officially marry.

A lot of people assume that the Queen will be his wife and share his life. Why?

I always assumed that the mistress will be his wife in all but name while the Queen is there on official occasions and planned meetings in the royal bedchamber every once in a while.

Being King is not a punishment, no one can tell the King what to do. If one of my PCs went for the mistress ending she would encourage the relationship to be an open secret and the choice for a Queen would certainly not be an innocent, clueless girl who's secretly dreaming of fairies and unicorns. That would be unfair.

After a few years when the Grey Warden curse of almost infertility is showing its ugly face they can stop the pretense altogether and make preparations for a new royal line (Cousland, Guerrin).

You're free to imagine whatever you wish - until Bioware pulls the canon card. ;-)

Ah just like Frank Herbert's Dune when Princess Irulan or House Corrino became Queen by name in the eyes people but everyone known that it was Chani who was the royal wife and legal concubine.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Addai67 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
I don't, but that's because I concentrate more on the book version. In the book versions, Irulian is every bit conniving, scheming Bene Geserit princess who takes part in a plot that leads to Chani's demise.

And I'm sure Anora would do the same if she felt the mistress Warden was getting in her way.  All the more reason to keep Zevran around to watch your back.

Naturally. One of the reasons when I kinged Alistair, he was solo. Except when I spared Loghain. Otherwise, Anora is solo. If Anora lives in my playthroughs, that character doesn't just have Zev. She's probably got contingency contracts with the Crows just in case the queen ends up a little too much like daddy.

[Emerald Melios]

ashez2ashes wrote...

Why does everyone want to be Queen anyways? And why do they consider it to be a happily ever after ending? You won't be able to have an heir, and Alistair really doesn't want to be King. The poor guy doesn't want to be King at all. Even if you harden him, he's still unhappy (just quieter about it).


The "happiest" ending imho, seems to be the one where you go off and have Grey Warden adventures together. That's the one I vastly prefer... I don't know why everyone wants to stay at court, how boring...

I see traveling with Leliana as the "happy ending."

[Herr Uhl]

Emerald Melios wrote...

I see traveling with Leliana as the "happy ending."

Traveling with Zev and Oghren (I knew that Felsi would get sick of him eventually) on merry adventures is the happiest yet.

Leli didn't want to come