237 réponses à ce sujet

[Wishpig]

EDIT- I'm trying to shy away from debaiting the game's problem, although if they relate to your point thats fine. The OP at least, is more focused on why this community gives such negitive feedback compared to many other forums and sites.

DOUBLE EDIT- Up to this point everyone has been very civil and given great responses. I appreciate it!

I've been part of the bioware forums for a long long time longer then even this username (this is my 2nd username... lost the info to my first it's been so long!.)

I don't know whats happened to these forums. I noticed a strange shift when Dragon Age came out. Many prob have forgotten by now, and only the fans really remain, but what Origins was released there was allot of flaming and allot of hate.Then ME2 came out, and jesus christ, if someone based their opinions soley on the forums, one would think ME2 sucked BIG TIME. Of course, save for those extremely close minded, we know Mass Effect 2 sold great and was very well recieved by fans and critics... depsite what the official forums would have you beleave.

Then comes along Awakening. I take critic reviews with a grain of salt. In truth I put far more importance on what the community thinks. Obviously, the community on these forums is pretty split over awakening. Some love, some hate... with no clear majority opinion.

But i noticed something, user reviews on pretty much everyother site I've visted have been without a doubt very positive towards awakening. "Gamer Scores" on ign.com average out to an 8.4 out a mere 66 reviews. Far more impressive is the 8.3 average on gamespot based on an impressive 600+ reviews. THATS ALLOT of people who liked this game.

What gives? Why have these forums become so damn cynical? Once I put faith in these forums, but now I dunno, but ever since ME2 specifically, people seem so negative. I also can't help but notice they attitudes shifted after bioware started making deals with EA... perhaps the cause??? Many seem to think they sold out.

Personally I'm afraid the devs will start to strait out ignore us. It seems that their games are getting impressive praise everywhere but these forums... where they seem to get bashed left and right.

Mah, I know this post will prob draw some major flamage, but it was on my mind, and I wanna see what others think. Why do these forums constantly seem to rip on bioware games, where else where outside these forums they recieve mostly praise.

Modifié par Wishpig, 03 avril 2010 - 02:16 .

[Magonian]

Totally enjoying this expansion..... 16 hours in so far and I'm about 40% finished, ill get 30-40 hours out of this...thx U Bio!



PS... Wending Woods my favorite area out of all DA areas .....im having charred tree nightmares!

[Hugmejohnny]

Do you even need to ask? Once a company gets really big and known for good games the community goes crazy! NUTSO! Bonkers! Wacko Yako and Dot! They start expecting games to be made for them alone and when it falls short of meeting their every whim THE END OF THE WORLD! DOOM! Awakening was bugged and rushed. I just started playing and already I've run into a big ugly bug. But still it's been fun so far. unless it steeply falls downhill I think this will make the franchise proud once all these haters move on.

Modifié par Hugmejohnny, 03 avril 2010 - 12:38 .

[Adynata]

It's the same reason why student evaluations at universities always say bad things. Students who are happy don't bother to write it and students who are unhappy feel they need to be heard. So, all you hear are unhappy comments and very few good ones.

[TheMadCat]

People are allowed to be upset, their opinions don't necessarily have to equate to that of the general public. I mean if you're going to express your distaste for a product what better place is there? Once you weed out the idiots, attention ****s, and fools who feel they are entitled to this and that for no reason, you'll actually find legit dissatisfaction with valid reasoning. You may not agree with it, but it is there and they certainly aren't cynical for holding a different opinion or having higher standards.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 03 avril 2010 - 12:46 .

[Herr Uhl]

I've missed most of the complaining due to a break for non-spoilage until now, not spectacular but I enjoyed it.



Dissenters are more vocal would be my guess. And that EA is EVIL!

[Big_Chief]

TheMadCat wrote...

People are allowed to be upset, their opinions don't necessarily have to equate to that of the general public. I mean if you're going to express your distaste for a product what better place is there? Once you weed out the idiots, attention ****s, and fools who feel they are entitled to this and that for no reason, you'll actually find legit dissatisfaction with valid reasoning. You may not agree with it, but it is there and they certainly aren't cynical for holding a different opinion or having higher standards.

Yes, I don't disagree with you, but more and more it seems like legitimate complaints and constructive criticism are buried under hyperbole, complaining about things that don't matter, and self entitlement. I'm all for constructive criticism, but I'd rather not spend my time in a community that complains about everything forever.

[Wishpig]

Big_Chief wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

People are allowed to be upset, their opinions don't necessarily have to equate to that of the general public. I mean if you're going to express your distaste for a product what better place is there? Once you weed out the idiots, attention ****s, and fools who feel they are entitled to this and that for no reason, you'll actually find legit dissatisfaction with valid reasoning. You may not agree with it, but it is there and they certainly aren't cynical for holding a different opinion or having higher standards.

Yes, I don't disagree with you, but more and more it seems like legitimate complaints and constructive criticism are buried under hyperbole, complaining about things that don't matter, and self entitlement. I'm all for constructive criticism, but I'd rather not spend my time in a community that complains about everything forever.

I dunno, I would call these forums pretty cynical. Pre Dragon Age, Mass Effect 2, and Awakening, doom sayers were already preaching how much the games were going to suck. Many predicted Awakening would suck and sell horribly, but here we are... it's getting good reviews, seems to be very well recieved among gamers, and if Gamestats and Steam is any indication, it's selling pretty damn well for an x-pack.

But you are right, while I consider these forums cynical, disliking the game does not make you cynical. Hating the game does not make you cynical. Both can be totally justified. It's the attitude that makes someone cynical.

Modifié par Wishpig, 03 avril 2010 - 01:00 .

[Frank the Running Bugzepel]

Once this place was for issuing genuine concern about a product, now it is a place of one-liners and seekers of 15 mins of fame. I do not deny that there are bugs as all games have them, nor do I deny that it may not be as highly expected as some people have thought. It is an expansion as it expands the game and lore, it may not be like some expansions that we know of but it still expands on the world of Thedas and it has satisfied some of my curiosity and created much more. I feel that is a precursor of DA2 and something bigger is about to happen and I will be watching this space for announcements.

[Kwanzaabot]

It's just Nerd Rage. We're never happy about anything, ever.



Look at the rage the Feast Day DLC's getting. Absolutely ridiculous.

[Frank the Running Bugzepel]

Silly nerds

[Kaiser Shepard]

Haven't bought it, would have gotten and enjoyed were it not for the fact that the "Ultimate Sacrifice" ending is now regarded as non-canon.

[Frank the Running Bugzepel]

It could be canon? Writers can make up something about how you were saved? Remember ME2?

[AngryFrozenWater]

I don't understand your viewpoint at all, OP. Somehow the "fans" think that critique is negative and that they must defend BioWare by all means. It's like someone kicked their dog. By calling them haters, complainers, whiners, etc. they can be driven away from the forums. If not then silly images will do the job. I think this kind of protectionism by the "community" leads to censorship which is in the end destructive for BioWare's titles. It ensures that no progress is made, because no alternative opinions reach BioWare on the forums. It's kind of strange, though. If you don't agree with an opinion then simply tell that, use arguments if you wish and just move on. No reason to get excited about.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 03 avril 2010 - 01:36 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Lady light doorbell wrote...

It could be canon? Writers can make up something about how you were saved? Remember ME2?

Sure, if anything was actually made up. Even though the original ending wouldn't allow it (your soul being destroyed and all), in the end the writers are the gods of the universe: any explanation would have been sufficient. Really, just waking up in your tomb at Weisshaupt with a mysterious light floating away would have been enough. Instead, we got this:

2.3 – If my PC died at the end of Dragon Age: Origins how are they alive in Dragon Age: Origins - Awakening? (Back to top)

If a player wants to, they can import their "Dead Warden" into Awakening and play as them. For the story it's assumed that they didn't make the ultimate sacrifice, instead somehow survived. A player would start as the same level with the same gear as their "Dead Warden". Essentially, if a player doesn't have a problem hand-waiving the story in this regard - neither do we.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 03 avril 2010 - 01:32 .

[Kwanzaabot]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Haven't bought it, would have gotten and enjoyed were it not for the fact that the "Ultimate Sacrifice" ending is now regarded as non-canon.

I don't understand this argument. If it's your choice to play Awakening with a warden that's dead, then why complain? You have the option to either NOT kill yourself, or play as an Orlesian warden. It's not like someone's holding a gun to your head.

[Frank the Running Bugzepel]

*nods in agreement*

[Realmzmaster]

It comes down to expectations. Gamers expect more from BioWare (rightly or wrongly) based on their past history of great games. Some old school gamers (myself included) remember fondly the BG series NWN + expansions and other great games. They compare DA:O and DA:A to those old games. Others are unhappy because DA does not use the D & D ruleset.
Some people are upset because of the unfixed bugs, patches that fix some bugs and introduce others, the lack of developer response to pleas to fix the bugs.
Awakenings upset many gamers because their choices (if they import a character) from DA:O had no real effect on Awakenings.
Other are upset because the storyline choices from DA:O do transfer over or are acknowleged even if the warden committed the ultimate scarfice.
Some are upset because the items and abilities from some of the DLC do not transfer over.
Some are upset by the length and price of Awakenings.
Others are mad because there are no romance options in Awakenings.

Some are mad because the combat is too easy. Some think it is too hard on easy. Not enough classes like in D & D. Not enough variety in monsters. Not enough hih level monsters. Not enough difference in the abilities of the monsters. The AI is dumb.
Some do not like the level scaling. And a whole host of other reasons that I have not touched on.

Some of these are design decisions. BioWare decided to create its own IP (world) rather than rely on D & D and the Forgotten realm setting. Forum members are going to have to live with that decision. Licensing the D & D ruleset costs money and the license is held by Atari right now.

Bugs should be fixed with patches and not introduce new bugs. I am far more forgiving about bugs than others. I worked in the software industry doing programming and Q & A. I know exactly how hard it is to find bugs and then make sure the patch you implemented works on that board array of PC equipment. But, the developers should communicate with the forum about the bugs otherwise gamers feel ignored. They do not have to be here 24/7 but a response every now and then would be good.
Gamers have to remember that their expectations may not be what the developers and writers of the story have in mind that is where constructive criticism comes into play.
Yelling at the developers on the forum will probably get you ignored by the developers.
The fact that EA bought BioWare is a business decision. I doubt BioWare would not have survived without the acquistion by EA. BioWare was simply running out of money. It doe not matter how well managed the company. You have to have a product to sale and it requires capital to make one.
If your expenses are out pacing your revenues that is a recipe for disaster. Five years is a long development time.
People see EA as evil because of past business practices and failures (Origin comes to mind). But Bioware needed a publisher. EA has deep lines of credit. Otherwise DA may not have seen the light of day.
So EA might be evil, but for BioWare a necessary evil.
But, I enjoyed DA:O and DA:A. I had fun with the DLC. But YMMV. These are just the ramblings of an old gamer. Take them as you will.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 03 avril 2010 - 01:44 .

[Wishpig]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't understand your viewpoint at all, OP. Somehow the "fans" think that critique is negative and that they must defend BioWare by all means. It's like someone kicked their dog. By calling them haters, complainers, whiners, etc. they can be driven away from the forums. If not then silly images will do the job. I think this kind of protectionism of the "community" leads to censorship which is in the end destructive for BioWare's titles. It ensures that no progress is made, because no alternative opinions reach BioWare on the forums. It's kind of strange, though. If you don't agree with an opinion then simply tell that, use arguments if you wish and just move on. No reason to get excited about.

Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough in the OP. This thread is not meant to pass judgement on the game. There are other threads on that...

This thread is to ask why?

Why is the feedback so much more negitive on these forums then, from what I've seen, the mass majority of other sites and forums. Gamespot and Ign for example give great reviews from critics and more importantly gamers. Like I said, out of 600+ people, the game has an 8.3 average on gamespot. Even communities of sites not review based like Penny-Arcade or even youtube show very positive feedback.

What is it about this forum that leads to so much negitive feedbaclk. Although to be fair official forums in general tend to harbor the most negitive feedback.

PS- While I'm applying this question mainly to awakening, it also applies to DA:O and even more so ME2 which both recieved tons of flaming.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Kwanzaabot wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Haven't bought it, would have gotten and enjoyed were it not for the fact that the "Ultimate Sacrifice" ending is now regarded as non-canon.

I don't understand this argument. If it's your choice to play Awakening with a warden that's dead, then why complain? You have the option to either NOT kill yourself, or play as an Orlesian warden. It's not like someone's holding a gun to your head.

Roleplaying, I suppose. My main Warden did what I would do, period. If they wanted to take the story into the "Dark Rirual" direction, we should've never gotten a choice at all. I don't want another option just forced upon me when I previously prevented that from happening. And the Orlesian Warden isn't what it should have been: what we originally thought is that it would allow someone who did the US ending to experience the world created in Origins with a new character, instead it's just a default story not quite unlike the vanilla version of Mass Effect 2

I know there isn't someone holding a gun to my head, I would've gotten the game if there was. Now I simply chose not to.

[ModerateOsprey]

@Kaiser

I am completely with you on the US ending - thoughtless, IMO. I have commented vehemently elsewhere in this forum, some folk seem to get it, some don't. I have just shrugged and told myself, O well...that means a better game is perhaps yet to come. Maybe from Bioware, maybe not.

I am enjoying it still and would still recommend all the latest Bioware games to others, as generally most computer games plots have gaping holes in them, in my experience. I would prefer there not to be, but that seems to be how it is at the moment.

@ OP

Perhaps what you are seeing on the forums is similar to what happens when a really great band moves from the garage to stadium. Some fans start saying how brilliant their earlier stuff was better and they use to really care for their fans, but don't anymore, etc. What has really happened is that band can now stretch their wings and experiment a bit and these new things bring in new fans and the community changes.

I am pretty much a newcomer to these forums, but seems to me there is a lot of very intelligent conversation goes on here and sometimes folk get emotional, but, that's cool, isn't it? OK, some stuff is downright silly, but I just ignore that.

[Grand_Commander13]

My rationalization of importing an Ultimate Sacrifice Warden is that the game assumes you went with Morrigan's offer instead. I'm certain there's something indicating this isn't so as Bioware has basically said "hey, we won't say anything if you don't" but it works well enough for me. Basically, since the imports from DA:O into Awakening are so meager and unimportant (seriously, they make ME2's imports seem world-shattering by comparison) they elected to let you keep your character if you wanted to. How is that rendering an ending non-canon?

[AlanC9]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
My main Warden did what I would do, period. If they wanted to take the story into the "Dark Rirual" direction, we should've never gotten a choice at all. I don't want another option just forced upon me when I previously prevented that from happening.

The more I think about this, the less convinced I am that there's an actual problem. As it stands now, you actually have to sacrifice something when you do the US. Not just your dead PC, but you, since you have to give up on interacting further with that edition of Thedas when you pick the US. Kinda like New Cap City -- if you're dead, you're out of the game.

[NvVanity]

Bioware has established high expectations from their games and expansions. I think some people were expecting too much from Awakening. Sure there were some things I was disappointed in but a lot of the people criticizing it are doing it in a very poor manner (the whole Awakening is a failure topics). For the users that have criticized Awakening properly I congratulate them for their valid arguments and its a shame so many of the users bashing it can't criticize it properly.

Modifié par NvVanity, 03 avril 2010 - 03:12 .