237 réponses à ce sujet

[westiex9]

i agree with NV people expected way too much from awakening, i went into it expecting a few more hours of dragon age fun, didn't like everything in the game but overall it was lots of fun and kept me playing for days.

[doah76]

I am mainly just dissatisfied with how it ends and kal'hirol area. I felt more could have been put into these 2 things to make them slightly more exciting.

[challenger18]

I think the majority complaints are really about the bugs and glitches that persist in O and A. I really think it is a matter of nerd rage born of ignorance. People will assume the worst when they have a problem with someone or something and they don't get an immediate answer. In this case, there a lot if glitches and bugs and because BioWare doesn't do a step by step update telling them that they know it is a problem and this is the progress they've made in fixing it, they assume the worst and believe that BioWare is ignoring them and just focusing on getting that cash money. At the same time, it has been months after the release of Origins and the glitches and bugs remain across all platforms, that's pretty bad. Still, how are we to know the details on what it takes to fix these many glitches across platforms that all have different specs?



All in all, I believe if patches were to be released for this then the complaints would be severly damped. Of course even then I would guess there would be people who believed BioWare owed them something for being so late for the fixes. Hm, I think it's kind of funny actually. With Mass Effect and the other games released on console before, the main concern was BioWares lack of DLC, now it's BioWares lack of patches (that work).

[Shadowrun1177]

I think that why you think you see mostly negative review's is cause people who don't like something tend to be more vocal about then those who like. Honestly I'm guilty of this I liked Awakening's for the most part but I've slammed the one part I don't like repeatedly in several thread's cause I feel it effects the enjoyability of the game at least for me. The part I'm talking about is the new companion conversation system.



BioWare has always been known for listening to their fan base in the past. That's gonna lead to people both being positive and negative about how they feel about game but negative tend to be more vocal the positive.

[marquiseondore]

I enjoyed Awakening. My first couple play throughs were as an Orlesian Warden. The bugs encountered during play didn't ruin the game for me in the least. And despite my inital hesitation to import my female noble, I did so.



Three of my characters made the US and I don't intend to import them into Awakening. However those were three out of the XX times I've played the game, so picking another character to import is a not an issue. If Bioware didn't make this option available, I'm sure they would be getting flack from those that wanted to import their dead warden.

[KigenBarzhad]

I'm not really an awakening hate but outside these forums people are saying the same thing I was thinking, "By the time I was in my groove/really enjoying the story and the world (the game itself), it was all over. It felt like the developer saw it was doing too much and cut it short."



read it on kotaku

[AT_Field]

I would like to direct everyone's attention to this article:

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnpleasableFanbase

[Kekse2k]

Mh, I trust BioWare to be able to sift through all of these complaints and see the real issues that need to be remedied. They're not dumb enough to ignore them (in my opinion), nor are they dumb enough to listen to every single complaint. If sales and reviews speak differently from forum criticisms, then the disparity is obvious. I mean, if we can figure this out, BioWare definitely can. Essentially, they're BioWare for a reason - players can complain, but they definitely should be left out of the decision-making. I want BioWare to make the game, not the players (and, again, BioWare is not dumb enough to ignore criticisms). Both sides must work together. User feedback is just that - feedback.

The "why" of the situation on the forum is already answered, I think - if you can complain, why wouldn't you? It just seems a bit unreasonable, at times, to accuse BioWare of ignorance, as if we the players know what sort of legal implications they are dealing with. Heck, I know of an MMO that has to buy its content from the original German version, who has to buy the content from the Korean version (or something) and *then* it has to be translated. It all gets very fuzzy. The community blames the company for being lazy, ignorant, incompetent, greedy, etc. when all it really is is that one of the companies from which the content must be purchased decided to haggle over prices, or maybe a translator broke his...er...brain. We didn't know the situation, yet we had complaints that needed to be voiced.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

I had great fun with it. It was worth $40.00. I'll play it three times and enjoy it each one. It's a win for BioWare, imo.

[Wicked 702]

challenger18 wrote...

I think the majority complaints are really about the bugs and glitches that persist in O and A. I really think it is a matter of nerd rage born of ignorance. People will assume the worst when they have a problem with someone or something and they don't get an immediate answer. In this case, there a lot if glitches and bugs and because BioWare doesn't do a step by step update telling them that they know it is a problem and this is the progress they've made in fixing it, they assume the worst and believe that BioWare is ignoring them and just focusing on getting that cash money. At the same time, it has been months after the release of Origins and the glitches and bugs remain across all platforms, that's pretty bad. Still, how are we to know the details on what it takes to fix these many glitches across platforms that all have different specs?

All in all, I believe if patches were to be released for this then the complaints would be severly damped. Of course even then I would guess there would be people who believed BioWare owed them something for being so late for the fixes. Hm, I think it's kind of funny actually. With Mass Effect and the other games released on console before, the main concern was BioWares lack of DLC, now it's BioWares lack of patches (that work).

I wouldn't call the concerns and complaints about Bioware's current lack of customer service and quality control nerd rage. Apologies if I've misinterpreted you but you have the sentences one after another like they are related.

5+ months to go without any significant corrections, or even insignificant ones, with a product that has MULTIPLE game breaking and permanently corrupting bugs is simply unacceptable. I was in the "don't worry, just be patient Bioware will patch it" crowd for many months but once Awakenings rolled out, with its own massive set of quest breaking bugs and a patch that just made the original WORSE, I couldn't take it anymore. What ever happened to hotifxes eh Bioware?

I've personally had it with Bioware on this one. And I won't be giving them $40 that they do not deserve. Maybe in a few months I'll buy it off some guy on ebay used for $10. But Bioware won't get a penny.

[errant_knight]

Hmmm... Interesting topic, OP.... I don't know. I loved Origins immediately and was baffled by some of the more negative commentary. I'd never played RPGs much, so the comparisons were lost on me. All I knew was that I loved the way I could get to know the characters, the way they felt like actual people, not sets of attributes that might be useful in a fight who provided exposition.

I didn't love Awakening because the things that made me love Origins were minimized. Yes, it was still witty, combat was still fun, and the world was still interesting. But the fact that I couldn't roleplay my character coming back to home base talking to her companions, for things to progress without personal moments that I had control ot as a player, well, that made it less real and involving for me.

The level of venom is a little odd, though. I'm just a little disappointed, Bioware didn't run over my dog. At the same time, this isn't the first forum I've seen this in. The more time I spend on the internet, the more I wonder about the level of rage out there. Maybe people just bottle it up in RL and let things spew out here.

[Kekse2k]

Wicked 702 wrote...

5+ months to go without any significant corrections, or even insignificant ones, with a product that has MULTIPLE game breaking and permanently corrupting bugs is simply unacceptable. I was in the "don't worry, just be patient Bioware will patch it" crowd for many months but once Awakenings rolled out, with its own massive set of quest breaking bugs and a patch that just made the original WORSE, I couldn't take it anymore. What ever happened to hotifxes eh Bioware?

What makes it easier for me to forgive BioWare for this slight (apart from the fact that I haven't encountered any frustrating bugs in my XBOX360 copy of DA:O, only hilarious ones) is that Awakening was, from what I read, already in development when Origins was released with a substantial amount of time already invested into it (hence the reason why it was released so early relative to other games and their expansions). Considering the circumstances, it makes sense that the team from Awakening was not responsible for the coding discrepancies in Origins. The release of Awakening does not necessarily mean that the company as a whole neglected Origins, but to pull the plug on a running project to dedicate the programmers for a game that already had, presumably, its own team of programmers is rather...a waste of resources. 

I don't meant to imply that I know all this for a fact, however, and nor do I wish to engage in debate whether or not this is the case. I certainly do not want to accuse you of ignorance or faulty reasoning, either, so please do not interpret this as such. I am merely stating my opinion, which I realize may come off as idealism and naive. I admit that the response time for patching bugs is a bit slow and I may even begin to suspect that there is either a complication with the multi-platform coding or BioWare is in short supply of programmers, or both. Who knows? To quote, "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." Lame, I know *lol*

Modifié par Kekse2k, 03 avril 2010 - 04:34 .

[Vicious]

Bioware has an extremely spoiled fanbase.

For example, Bioware recently popularized the video game idea of your actions in one game impacting the next installment. Now everyone expects it from ALL their offerings, despite it being a coding nightmare that 99% of video game companies don't and will never bother with.

OTOH, Does anyone care about Final Fantasy games completely lacking continuity or coherency? No, because it's what they have come to expect from Square.


Another example: Romances. Baldur's Gate 2 was the first RPG i played with well-written romance that actually made me care about the people I was romancing.

Now GOD FORBID Bioware release a game or expansion that does not feature some sort of romance!

Nevermind other RPGs hold your hands through RPGs or force you to swallow prescripted romances with zero choice involved and don't complain.


There's no way around it. And yes, Bioware puts out consistently good and enjoyable experiences and that's why people expect so much. Awakenings was not AS GOOD as their previous offerings, and the community went nuts. It's really simple as that.

ALL SAID, HOWEVER, Awakenings buggyness is inexcusable. Bioware used to have an insanely good track record concerning how buggy their games were - they had bugs here and there but they were RARE and this helped their PR. Blizzard had a similar image in those days.

Modifié par Vicious, 03 avril 2010 - 04:39 .

[CybAnt1]

Have you ever gone to a restaurant where you had a delicious meal, that was absolutely delightful and perfect? (That was DA:O.) Then you come back for lunch a few weeks later and are disappointed? That's kind of what I feel about DA:A.



It was a pretty good meal, all in all. The restaurant (Bioware) is still good and I'm not giving up on them because of one less than perfect meal.



I'm not going to complain about length, because it is an expansion. I have no unreasonable expectations as far as that goes.



But I was just disappointed by small things. Small things that are not enough to make me a hater, whatever that is, but just enough to wonder if they just couldn't have made this meal a little bit better?



It would have been better if they had just done a wee bit more regarding continuity. How hard would it have been to include letters from Zevran or other companions?

It would have been better if in the search for a new conversation system (and I agree there were flaws in the old one), they didn't throw out the baby with the bathwater. I'm still hoping for a happy medium that "marries" the old & new convo systems.

I wanted to like the new Runecrafting system, it would have been wonderful if not hopelessly bugged, borked & tedious.

It would have been better if the Toolset update came out at the same time as the game update. How long will we have to wait for old mods to be updated for, or new mods made for, Awakening?

It would have been better if it were not plagued by odd bugs & glitches.



I say these things not to whine, not to claim I'll never buy another Bio/EA product, but in the basic hope that THINGS WILL GET BETTER. BTW, Bioware fans do themselves and the company no service by stifling valid criticisms.

[WARDEN9652]

i agree valid criticism is great, it helps the company improve and gather ideas, however,



some of the things on these boards are just inexcusable, what good is it going to do the company or the community to just downgrade them or others just to make a complaint heard?

[Kekse2k]

WARDEN9652 wrote...

i agree valid criticism is great, it helps the company improve and gather ideas, however,

some of the things on these boards are just inexcusable, what good is it going to do the company or the community to just downgrade them or others just to make a complaint heard?

That is generally how I feel, but it really is all about perspective. I mean, there are lessons to be patient, but then there are lessons not to tarry. In the end, you have to learn to do both. E.g. life's too short to get worked up over everything, but life's too long to avoid conflict simply for the sake of avoiding it. Some people think getting BioWare's attention via angry rants is good, and if you look at it one way, it is, because it essentially grabs their attention. Others will think presenting a complaint in such a manner makes the company look upon the argument negatively and a simple rant, which can also be true. Sometimes you have to be bold, sometimes you have to be patient. The balance of both being irrational on the forums might be an issue, who knows? It's all just...blahhhhh

[sonofalich]

people are entitled to their opinions regardless of what the outside world has to say.

[WARDEN9652]

never said people weren't entitled to their opinion (if your talking to me)



im just saying it seems childish when there are people who slander others just to make a point, by all means voice your opinion or concerns, but what good does it do to follow up those concerns with unnecessary name calling (amongst other things), i know i for one tend to pay no attention to someone like that regardless of their point

[David Gaider]

WARDEN9652 wrote...
some of the things on these boards are just inexcusable, what good is it going to do the company or the community to just downgrade them or others just to make a complaint heard?

My impression is that many people on the internet come to think that the laws of social interaction are different here than in real life. They appear to think that because they believe they have a point everyone is thus required to pay attention -- no matter how they've presented it. Being rude, insulting or even incoherent is just noise to them; the mere fact that THEY ARE RIGHT means others must listen no matter what.

And of course that does not happen. If you were to walk up to someone in real life and yell at or insult them, they wouldn't listen to your argument no matter how good you thought it was. If you walked into a store and started insulting the staff or shouting at the other customers, you would be asked to leave no matter how justified you thought your beef was or how many times you had shopped there.

Yet it is supposed to be different here? Of course it isn't.

There are a lot of thoughtful, discerning folks who come to the forums -- sometimes to offer their thoughts, sometimes to offer their criticism or their praise. Regardless of which it is, if it is politely offered and intelligent it will be received as gladly as if someone had offered it to us in real life. That is one's opportunity to be persuasive when it comes to the developers -- and persuasion is the opportunity that the forums offer you, even if some (or many?) people approach the idea with a much greater sense of entitlement. And, of course, some people don't come here intending to be persuasive at all.

For those who fit into the category of offering their thoughtful praise and criticism, it is appreciated -- and read by more people at Bioware than you might think, even if few of them are eager to wade into the mire to actually post (and even if we are never able to take it all in -- we do have jobs, after all). But if anyone is concerned, rest assured that we don't take the rage personally. We understand that fans are fans because they're passionate about what they love -- even if also occasionally a little deranged.

Modifié par David Gaider, 03 avril 2010 - 05:50 .

[AntiChri5]

A little? Heh......



Anyway i think a good portion of it is people bottling thins up in real life and unleashing it here.

[taine]

Wicked 702 wrote...


5+ months to go without any significant corrections, or even insignificant ones, with a product that has MULTIPLE game breaking and permanently corrupting bugs is simply unacceptable.

Ok, this has been bugging me for a while now. What are these horrible game corrupting/breaking bugs that everyone has been talking about? I know of two annoying bugs that were introduced with 1.03, but nothing game breaking. Nor have I ever encountered a bug in DA:O or A which was more than a minor annoyance. Maybe I am just lucky? Would someone care to enlighten me?

On the OP's topic, being on the internet just seems to reduce some peoples' mental age by 5-10 years (or more?). There are actually a lot of rational, intelligent people here with very valid things to say. This board is actually a lot better than many across the internet. There's just always going to be a subset of people for whom their complains are SERIOUS BUSINESS, and feel the absolute need to be heard, regardless of whether or not they can properly form a sentence. 

As the good Mr. Gaider says, I'm sure the Bioware devs can take all the histrionics with a grain of salt, and parse out the criticism which would actually be useful. 

[zahra]

Mmmm... I don't understand. What's wrong with being negative, if they really do feel negatively about the product? I think its kinda weird to be hoping for a uniform response from the community, one way or the other.

[WARDEN9652]

David Gaider wrote...

For those who fit into the category of offering their thoughtful praise
and criticism, it is appreciated -- and read by more people at Bioware
than you might think, even if few of them are eager to wade into the
mire to actually post (and even if we are never able to take it all in
-- we do have jobs, after all). But if anyone is concerned, rest
assured that we don't take the rage personally. We understand that fans
are fans because they're passionate about what they love -- even if
also occasionally a little deranged. ../../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png



^^well thats a good thing:)

[AntiChri5]

Yeah i was starting to get concerned about their feelings.

[WARDEN9652]

at zahra...

it can be good to be negative, but some people just get carried away (understatement)