237 réponses à ce sujet

[ICek81]

Dont expect that people will praise Bioware for bugs that they give us in Awakening. I bought this little game in pre-order and didnt finish it because of the bugs. Im waiting for the patch and i hope it will be soon given to us.

[wowpwnslol]

If the opinion of sheep counted for something, we'd all be eating McDonalds and listening to Britney Spears. After all popularity is everything!

[purplesunset]

Here's the other side of the coin:

Why is it that people like THIS GUY feel compelled to add so many disclamers before they can post their slightest reservations about the game?

Could it be because the defenders can be equally as ardent/vocal/and even brutal? It goes both ways on this forum.

Modifié par purplesunset, 03 avril 2010 - 07:16 .

[Ash Wind]

As for the anger content, I think people, in general, are many times more likely to go out of their way to complain about something than they are to pay a compliment... and at its core, these forums allow people to vent about issues. There are issues with the game, and people vent.

Having said that...

Unfortunately some times it gets inappropriate. The internet provides a certain amount of anonymity that seems to empower some people to go above and beyond what is acceptable. They say things they wouldn't have the guts to say to someone in the real world. But they are easy to spot and its easy to move on.


Tact is the ability to tell a man to go to Hell... and send him merrily on his way.

Modifié par Ash Wind, 03 avril 2010 - 07:27 .

[zahra]

WARDEN9652 wrote...

at zahra...

it can be good to be negative, but some people just get carried away (understatement)

I know what you mean, there is a difference between voicing your complaints in a civil way and just plain rudeness, but the way I look at it is this is what being human is all about. If everyone was rational and measured in their responses I would feel kind of creeped out. For example if Sten and Morrigan were not a tad ****y at times I doubt we would have as much fun having them as companions. Unless a robot apocalypse comes about and everyone is turned into drones, this is what every internet community is going to look like (and should look like).

I doubt David Gaider (or any of the devs) loses any sleep over rudeness/trolling on the forums. And I think that they should feel a sense of achievement for creating a world so immersive that people would react strongly to it, whether it is in mature way or not. I always feel like laughing a bit when Gaider responds to questions about his characters because they all belong to him, he could turn Leliana into a broodmother in the next expansion or have Duncan appear as a bearded archdemon. They are his creations so he really shouldn't me made accountable for what he does to them, and yet he responds and to a certain extent he justifies and explains himself.

Sorry this has turned into a tl:dr post. Urm, in summary Gaider rocks, and the robot apocalypse hasn't happened yet so there will be rude and unreasonable posts on the internets. And I like it that way.

[Yrkoon]

Wishpig wrote...

But i noticed something, user reviews on pretty much everyother site I've visted have been without a doubt very positive towards awakening. "Gamer Scores" on ign.com average out to an 8.4 out a mere 66 reviews. Far more impressive is the 8.3 average on gamespot based on an impressive 600+ reviews. THATS ALLOT of people who liked this game.

Indeed!  about 660 people.  But just to put things in perspective, the DA forums here contain thousands more than that, yes?


I'm not seeing what you're seeing.  Outside of these forums, people are criticising/praising  Awakening, just as they are here

[AngryFrozenWater]

Wishpig wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't understand your viewpoint at all, OP. Somehow the "fans" think that critique is negative and that they must defend BioWare by all means. It's like someone kicked their dog. By calling them haters, complainers, whiners, etc. they can be driven away from the forums. If not then silly images will do the job. I think this kind of protectionism of the "community" leads to censorship which is in the end destructive for BioWare's titles. It ensures that no progress is made, because no alternative opinions reach BioWare on the forums. It's kind of strange, though. If you don't agree with an opinion then simply tell that, use arguments if you wish and just move on. No reason to get excited about.

Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough in the OP. This thread is not meant to pass judgement on the game. There are other threads on that...

This thread is to ask why?

Why is the feedback so much more negitive on these forums then, from what I've seen, the mass majority of other sites and forums. Gamespot and Ign for example give great reviews from critics and more importantly gamers. Like I said, out of 600+ people, the game has an 8.3 average on gamespot. Even communities of sites not review based like Penny-Arcade or even youtube show very positive feedback.

What is it about this forum that leads to so much negitive feedbaclk. Although to be fair official forums in general tend to harbor the most negitive feedback.

PS- While I'm applying this question mainly to awakening, it also applies to DA:O and even more so ME2 which both recieved tons of flaming.

You didn't even read what I wrote, did you? You assumed that I was judging the game, right? Why? Have you read my posts before?

I have given my reasons in the post you have quoted. Here are some common forms of that aggression...

1) Paint the company as a victim. Especially fans of BioWare love that idea. It has several purposes: It shows their allegiance to the company, it bonds likewise minded fans, and it attempts to force "the hostile" poster to defend his/her "attack" with the intent to distract from the issue at hand.

2) Use terms like "whine", "complain", and "hate" to make posters appear to write with a negative emotional state of mind. The intent is make the logic of those "emotional posters" appear to be flawed.

3) Derail threads by spamming off-topic posts. Currently the best example is the apology thread of the doctors. A very large part of that thread (especially near the end) is showing exactly that. The advantage is to distract from the main topic at hand and to force moderators to close the thread.

4) Pyramid posts. Usually 3 and 4 are combined. If you quote the spam then pages become huge in no time with the additional advantage that it hides any posts that address the topic at hand.

5) With the introduction of this new site it is possible to show images in posts instead of just links to these images. If those images ridicule the topic at hand then it might discourage people posting in such threads. Of course 3, 4 and 5 can be combined.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 03 avril 2010 - 09:33 .

[Finiffa]

Game forums will always sway towards the negative. It is simple really. If you like the game then you play it and maybe visit the forums for advice, discussions or give praise. If you don't like the game you probably go the forum and complain. It is the same on every game forum I ever visited.

This doesnt mean that the complainers are always wrong. If you cannot finish the game because of bugs then you have every right to explain.



Here is usually how is goes:

1 game announced, everyone rejoices

2 people start giving their views of how the game MUST be and SHOULD be

3 devs release some information

4 some people start complaining because its different from their view of the game

5 repeat step 3 and 4 several times

6 game is released

7 repeat step 4 BIG time



Dont forget that the MAJORITY of the people buying and playing the game either never visit forums or never bother to post there. They just look for information and news and thats it. So the vocal minority staying are the usually most negative ones.

[Yrkoon]

^for that matter, the vast majority also don't  write up reviews, so we're back to square one: and the OP's  impossible-to-prove claim that  gamer opinions here are somehow different than  the ones outside the forum.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 03 avril 2010 - 10:52 .

[Urdnot_Write]

Most people don't feel the need to make threads letting everyone else know they're satisfied. Simple really.

[Finiffa]

Yrkoon wrote...

^for that matter, the vast majority also don't post reviews or purchase expansion packs, so we're back to square one: and the OP's claim that views here are somehow different than they are outside the forums.

Well going by Metacritics he is right, far more positive there:

http://www.metacriti...riginsawakening

Of course you are gonna retaliate now saying those are too few votes compared to the forums. To which I am gonna answer that on the forums you mostly see:
- one time posters and trolls, they hardly count imho
- the same vocal posters all the time

[Yrkoon]

Finiffa wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

^for that matter, the vast majority also don't post reviews or purchase expansion packs, so we're back to square one: and the OP's claim that views here are somehow different than they are outside the forums.

Well going by Metacritics he is right, far more positive there:

http://www.metacriti...riginsawakening

Of course you are gonna retaliate now saying those are too few votes compared to the forums. To which I am gonna answer that on the forums you mostly see:
- one time posters and trolls, they hardly count imho
- the same vocal posters all the time

 Well, the lack of votes DOES matter, doesn't it.   34 votes?    And the game still got  only a 7.9 rating  (ie. a C+,.  not a great score btw.) 

And we are to conclude that these 34 votes are an accurate representation of the entire gaming community outside of these forums, and that by contrast, the opinions of hundreds.... thousands of forumites here   suddenly doesn't count because there's a few 'trolls' within that number?

Uh... No.  

And it's silly to compare  Reviews with  message board discussion anyway.  they're two completely different forms of communication.... one is interative... the other is NOT.  Of COURSE you're going to get arguments when you  put two people together and allow them to debate their differing opinions.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Finiffa wrote...

Game forums will always sway towards the negative. It is simple really. If you like the game then you play it and maybe visit the forums for advice, discussions or give praise. If you don't like the game you probably go the forum and complain. It is the same on every game forum I ever visited.

I don't agree with you. I am fan of X3:TC. You may not like that game, but I do. On their forums devs encourage critique. They allow forum visitors to become beta testers. Just apply and you are in. These people have their own forum which also contains a link to the last stable beta version of the patch. That allows the customers to report bugs and submit feature requests for the next patch (current one is version 2.6 IIRC). There are strict rules for that and no discussion is allowed for reporting bugs. However, if the bug cannot be replicated one can post that. One such post is enough. A dev will visit such a thread and determines whether or not to fix the bug. It's very likely that the bug will be fixed once it can be replicated. If he decides not to fix it then he will state his reasons why. The topic title will be changed to indicate his decision by changing the tag. You can counter that with a response, only within reason. If the bug has been fixed then of course you should test it and verify the intended fix. There is a forum for the beta testers to discuss feature requests or prepare bug fix reports. It also allows to address gameplay issues. Spamming those threads is frowned upon. Feature requests can get be submitted once discussed and a dev visits the thread and marks the request as either rejected or accepted. Of course he'll tell you why in case it has been rejected. Usually the decision aready has become clear in the preparation "phase", so there is no real reason to object.

As a result the general forums tend to be very gentle. The devs clearly earned respect there. When people posts about any problems then usually the beta testers can provide answers that make sense. They can inform that either the problem is under investigation or report the problem.

The game also supports community mods. Some of the best mods make it into the game and become an official part of the game. Of course the author has to give his or her permission first. After one year or so the DRM will be removed from the game. I think that is going to happen with the current or next patch. It's just a nice gesture to the community.

Utopia? Nope. It works.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 03 avril 2010 - 10:28 .

[Yrkoon]

Oh, one other thing here.... I see many people claiming that there was the same   level of  "hate barrage" on these boards when DA:O came out.   My memory must be quite faulty, because I seriously remember something different.  When I joined in the middle of November, I had not purchased DA:O yet and was still on the fence.  I came here to get a sense of what people thought of the game.  I was blown away.    The masses were not saying stuff like  "eh?  It's Ok."  or "hmm.... good game!"

No.  It was more like:  "OMG... this is the best game I ever bought!".  And "wow!  Bioware has outdone itself!", and  "this is better than BG2!".  And to drive the point home... review sites like IGN and Gamespot were giving DA:O scores in the 90s.

The  reception all over the place  was decidedly  different with Awakening.  And you all know it.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 03 avril 2010 - 10:41 .

[Finiffa]

Yrkoon wrote...
The  reception all over the place  is decidedly  different with Awakening.  And you all know it.

Oh yes, I definately agree with that. I was just answering the OP why I think game forums are usually far more negative then outside of the forums.

My personal view: DAO was awesome, DAA is ... nice.

[Finiffa]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't agree with you. I am fan of X3:TC. You may not like that game, but I do.

Tbh I never heard of this game, feel free to point me to their forums  

[AngryFrozenWater]

Finiffa wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't agree with you. I am fan of X3:TC. You may not like that game, but I do.

Tbh I never heard of this game, feel free to point me to their forums 

The game is X3: Terran Conlict and is created by a German company called Egosoft. You can find their forums here: X-Universe Forums.

You need to login to see the beta forums. They are at the bottom of the forum list. I have Level 3+ access (meaning standard beta tester). There is also a higher level which allows you to test alpha builds of future products. That level requires you to sign an NDA and post it by snail mail. I am not interested in that.

[TorstenS]

We have heard many very positive and many negative opinions about that game. Maybe the middle way is the truth. DA:A is only average and that causes disappointment like an average sequel of an excellent movie.



Sorry but in my opinion all the bugs and this compressed story of DA:A is not worthy for DA:O which was in my eyes excellent.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Thinking about it some more... I think BioWare's main problem is that it feels it needs to be silent. One advantage of that is it can create "hypes". Somehow BioWare feels that this is an effective marketing strategy. Also, they feel that by promising stuff it will be hard to explain whenever they decide to change their minds. A disadvantage is that by staying silent the customers have no idea what they are cooking up and have no idea if their wishes or reports make it to the developers. As a result you'll see large threads asking for features and bug fixes that are kept alive for months. And silence creates distrust. EA doesn't have the best reputation in the industry, so that image doesn't help BioWare either. At Egosoft you can follow exactly what the company is doing and give real input and see what is happening to that. Just read the beta forums and you'll know. You can almost see the devs at work. Hehe. And if you are really interested then go for the alpha testing. That open approach causes less drama on their forums.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 03 avril 2010 - 11:38 .

[Finiffa]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Finiffa wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I don't agree with you. I am fan of X3:TC. You may not like that game, but I do.

Tbh I never heard of this game, feel free to point me to their forums 

The game is X3: Terran Conlict and is created by a German company called Egosoft. You can find their forums here: X-Universe Forums.

You need to login to see the beta forums. They are at the bottom of the forum list. I have Level 3+ access (meaning standard beta tester). There is also a higher level which allows you to test alpha builds of future products. That level requires you to sign an NDA and post it by snail mail. I am not interested in that.

Thanks, I will check it out!

[Rio420]

I posted my review this morning and while I wasn't jumping out of my chair happy about the expansion and how it played, there were a TON of great moments and things in it that kept me entertained. I think my expectations may have been a bit higher than that of someone who hasn't played a lot of Bioware's games, but I think I was pretty fair in the review. Is it worth picking up and playing? Heck yeah it is, will it keep me creating new characters and playing it over and over like Origins did? Not likely.

[Wishpig]

Yrkoon wrote...

Oh, one other thing here.... I see many people claiming that there was the same   level of  "hate barrage" on these boards when DA:O came out.   My memory must be quite faulty, because I seriously remember something different.  When I joined in the middle of November, I had not purchased DA:O yet and was still on the fence.  I came here to get a sense of what people thought of the game.  I was blown away.    The masses were not saying stuff like  "eh?  It's Ok."  or "hmm.... good game!"

No.  It was more like:  "OMG... this is the best game I ever bought!".  And "wow!  Bioware has outdone itself!", and  "this is better than BG2!".  And to drive the point home... review sites like IGN and Gamespot were giving DA:O scores in the 90s.

The  reception all over the place  was decidedly  different with Awakening.  And you all know it.

I don't put much stalk in Critic reviews... but if they drive my point home ign gave awakening an 8.5 (.5 away from DA:O and .3 away from the console versions) Gamespot gave it a good 8.0. So I don't see your point...

Your memory is only a bit fuzzy though. DA:O wasn't a very happy place upon the games release, it was unhappy enough for me to notice a shift in the communities attitude, but I would say it was positive overall. Haters moved on fairly quickly too, 'cause unlike ME2 and Awakening, it wasn't a sequel or Xpak, people didn't know what to expect and simply walked away from the franchise if they didn't dig it. After a few angry posts of course

No, like I said in the OP, ME2 and DA:A were far worse though. Both recieved really well outside these forums, but quite the opposit within.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I didn't buy Awakening because I don't like the fact that the older DLCs and community-mods are not supported. Of course the modders may find a way anyhow, but that's a task they shouldn't have to do. I also feel that it is very cheap to abandon the player's past, especially since the game is rather expensive. If the expansion does not fit the ending of DA:O then I think it is not worth playing. An excuse is that voice acting is expensive and it is hard to fit the actors into a recording schedule. Reduce the price if you cannot create it to DA:O's standard then. Sigh. I also fear that future patches and DLC will be for Awakening. No word on that of course.

[Yrkoon]

Wishpig wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Oh, one other thing here.... I see many people claiming that there was the same   level of  "hate barrage" on these boards when DA:O came out.   My memory must be quite faulty, because I seriously remember something different.  When I joined in the middle of November, I had not purchased DA:O yet and was still on the fence.  I came here to get a sense of what people thought of the game.  I was blown away.    The masses were not saying stuff like  "eh?  It's Ok."  or "hmm.... good game!"

No.  It was more like:  "OMG... this is the best game I ever bought!".  And "wow!  Bioware has outdone itself!", and  "this is better than BG2!".  And to drive the point home... review sites like IGN and Gamespot were giving DA:O scores in the 90s.

The  reception all over the place  was decidedly  different with Awakening.  And you all know it.

I don't put much stalk in Critic reviews.

You keep saying this.  Yet here you are,   citing  these reviews in your OP and  continuing  to cite them in your subsequent posts.  In fact,  your entire argument sees you  using these reviews to argue  how "different"  things are outside of these forums.

lol 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 03 avril 2010 - 12:54 .

[zahra]

Yrkoon wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Oh, one other thing here.... I see many people claiming that there was the same   level of  "hate barrage" on these boards when DA:O came out.   My memory must be quite faulty, because I seriously remember something different.  When I joined in the middle of November, I had not purchased DA:O yet and was still on the fence.  I came here to get a sense of what people thought of the game.  I was blown away.    The masses were not saying stuff like  "eh?  It's Ok."  or "hmm.... good game!"

No.  It was more like:  "OMG... this is the best game I ever bought!".  And "wow!  Bioware has outdone itself!", and  "this is better than BG2!".  And to drive the point home... review sites like IGN and Gamespot were giving DA:O scores in the 90s.

The  reception all over the place  was decidedly  different with Awakening.  And you all know it.

I don't put much stalk in Critic reviews.

You keep saying this.  Yet here you are,   citing  these reviews in your OP and  continuing  to cite them in your subsequent posts.  In fact,  your entire argument sees you  using these reviews to argue  how "different"  things are outside of these forums.

lol 

I know, right.

(to be said in the tone of "Enchantment!")

Contradiction!