237 réponses à ce sujet

[Wishpig]

Yrkoon wrote...
To be sure.  But really,  what's the point in seperating the two?  Can Bioware do ANYTHING that EA doesn't want them to do?

I dunno. Thats a good question. I wonder what the working releationship between the two are like. I would be willing to bet theres some friction though.

[Yrkoon]

Gaius Octavian wrote...

"OMGAH BIOWARE WON'T DO WHAT I WANT THEM TO WAHHHH I'M GONNA CRY CUZ ITS ALL ABOUT ME :[[["

Stop whining like decrepit old women, you don't own Bioware and they have every right to ignore your posts full of fail and crying.

Ha!

Trying to take my  place as the resident unhelpful  critic/troll-that-kills-civil-debate?

Wait yer turn.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 04 avril 2010 - 09:55 .

[VanillaSun]

I've never had anything against Bioware, in fact i actually love em', but bugs in the PS3 version of awakening are beyond reasonable. Anyway I'm sure they'll end up fixing it.

[Scoon millar]

i like the expansion just wish the armor and sword were fixed

[Thibbledorf26]

Do you want a situation where only 100% positive reviews are allowed on the forums? People who post positive threads saying they like the game are left unmolested even if they are repeating the same praise we have heard before. But if someone posts a review with some criticism people tell them 'stop spamming, that has been said already' or 'if you don't like the game don't play' or something like that. These forums are generally very postitive of Bioware from what I read, people say that they will pretty much buy anything that Bioware makes all the time.



There are some critics who post their messages using rude language, but there are just as many zealous bioware fans who will knock down people who post polite criticism.



There are some major bugs in awakening and some features that are different. All the sycophancy in the world won't change the fact that some will experience the bugs, others won't, some will like the changes, others won't. This is opinion, I don't see why people have problems with opinion.

[Hugmejohnny]

Yrkoon wrote...

Gaius Octavian wrote...

"OMGAH BIOWARE WON'T DO WHAT I WANT THEM TO WAHHHH I'M GONNA CRY CUZ ITS ALL ABOUT ME :[[["

Stop whining like decrepit old women, you don't own Bioware and they have every right to ignore your posts full of fail and crying.

Ha!

Trying to take my  place as the resident unhelpful  critic/troll-that-kills-civil-debate?

Wait yer turn.

No one could take you place

You DO have a habit of brining out the worst in people don't you?

[Mintyone]

@bioware poster again.

Oh come on.

You cant honestly tell me that when you log in here with your company name, pick a positive thread to answer, and talk down your nose at all the "whiners", after the angry customers have been denied the very least acknowledgment, that you honestly expect nobody to target you?

If you wanted to stick to shop-talk, then you should have done so. If your damn job isn't to deal with PR on the forums then don't. At the very least, if you do choose to try and handle PR by being condescending to angry customers, then dont throw your toys out the pram when they dont like it.

Modifié par Mintyone, 04 avril 2010 - 10:45 .

[Rixxencaxx]

well..to be straight...they are a corporation born to make profits...

The real question is not "why Bioware try to sell "april's fool dlc", but "why consumers buy such crap"...

Coming here to whine about awakening is a waste of time...they will listen only to sales.

However i observe that they have no time to release very needed patches but for sure they have time to create an april fool dlc. why? cause patches are "free" and dlc is paid.

To me...this is simply bad corporate behaviour

History teach us that strategy like this bring profits in the short term but ruin companies in the long run cause customers flee.

Still looking forward to DA2 but bioware is out of my "day one purchase" list.

[Hugmejohnny]

Mintyone wrote...

@bioware poster again.

Oh come on.

You cant honestly tell me that when you log in here with your company name, pick a positive thread to answer, and talk down your nose at all the "whiners", after the angry customers have been denied the very least acknowledgment, that you honestly expect nobody to target you?

If you wanted to stick to shop-talk, then you should have done so. If your damn job isn't to deal with PR on the forums then don't. At the very least, if you do choose to try and handle PR by being condescending to angry customers, then dont throw your toys out the pram when they dont like it.

Between u an me, I would rather have him on the forum talking with us and giving us information then not. Being a jerk towards him will ruin that. So shut ya trap son! Before the release he addressed worries and questions. After working his buttocks off making the game I doubt he wants to spend his time talking with angry people like you. What else can he say besides the teams working on the bugs?

[Mintyone]

Hugmejohnny wrote...

Mintyone wrote...

@bioware poster again.

Oh come on.

You cant honestly tell me that when you log in here with your company name, pick a positive thread to answer, and talk down your nose at all the "whiners", after the angry customers have been denied the very least acknowledgment, that you honestly expect nobody to target you?

If you wanted to stick to shop-talk, then you should have done so. If your damn job isn't to deal with PR on the forums then don't. At the very least, if you do choose to try and handle PR by being condescending to angry customers, then dont throw your toys out the pram when they dont like it.

Between u an me, I would rather have him on the forum talking with us and giving us information then not. Being a jerk towards him will ruin that. So shut ya trap son! Before the release he addressed worries and questions. After working his buttocks off making the game I doubt he wants to spend his time talking with angry people like you. What else can he say besides the teams working on the bugs?

He could try not lecturing the disatisfied customers on the niceties of internet etiquette for starters. Thats incredibly bad taste considering the context. I realise I m not showing myself from my best side, just for the record- but then neither is he by telling us to stop whining (indirectly).

[Gaius Octavian]

Yrkoon wrote...

Gaius Octavian wrote...

"OMGAH BIOWARE WON'T DO WHAT I WANT THEM TO WAHHHH I'M GONNA CRY CUZ ITS ALL ABOUT ME :[[["

Stop whining like decrepit old women, you don't own Bioware and they have every right to ignore your posts full of fail and crying.

Ha!

Trying to take my  place as the resident unhelpful  critic/troll-that-kills-civil-debate?

Wait yer turn.

I think I like you.

[Basher of Glory]

David Gaider wrote...

Baher of Glory wrote...
With this conclusion you are very right. But that applies for both sides. Just to ignore people days and weeks and then show up in a "positive" thread... well, that's a sign.

It's not up to me to lecture you, but perhaps it's worth to check this:
http://en.wikipedia....xcellence_Model

Not so long ago I considered BioWare as an "excellent organization" and I DO hope, that it will be one again.

If one is to base our excellence or lack thereof on how much we come to these forums to answer every concern or question, then sure. We don't do that, however, and never have. If you choose to look upon our lack of communication as us not doing anything at all, then so be it.

As for what is going to be done to address the concerns that are raised here, I'll leave that to the folks whose responsibility it is. So you're not going to see me running to threads to assuage anyone's concerns because I personally have no info to offer. I'm sure that when more info is available from the team, you'll hear about it then.

And since I am now apparently being singled out as a target, I think I'll just leave this thread alone and go back to work. I've made my point, for what it's worth (which doesn't seem to be much, not that I really expected it to).

So, that's your way to answer:
1) ..." so be it."
2) ..." I'm not responsible."
3) ..." I go now."

I'm sure, the more mature readers and posters of this board will understand the meta-messages behind this. Quite interesting, really.

[Sylixe]

Wishpig wrote...

EDIT- I'm trying to shy away from debaiting the game's problem, although if they relate to your point thats fine. The OP at least, is more focused on why this community gives such negitive feedback compared to many other forums and sites.

DOUBLE EDIT- Up to this point everyone has been very civil and given great responses. I appreciate it!

I've been part of the bioware forums for a long long time longer then even this username (this is my 2nd username... lost the info to my first it's been so long!.)

I don't know whats happened to these forums. I noticed a strange shift when Dragon Age came out. Many prob have forgotten by now, and only the fans really remain, but what Origins was released there was allot of flaming and allot of hate.Then ME2 came out, and jesus christ, if someone based their opinions soley on the forums, one would think ME2 sucked BIG TIME. Of course, save for those extremely close minded, we know Mass Effect 2 sold great and was very well recieved by fans and critics... depsite what the official forums would have you beleave.

Then comes along Awakening. I take critic reviews with a grain of salt. In truth I put far more importance on what the community thinks. Obviously, the community on these forums is pretty split over awakening. Some love, some hate... with no clear majority opinion.

But i noticed something, user reviews on pretty much everyother site I've visted have been without a doubt very positive towards awakening. "Gamer Scores" on ign.com average out to an 8.4 out a mere 66 reviews. Far more impressive is the 8.3 average on gamespot based on an impressive 600+ reviews. THATS ALLOT of people who liked this game.

What gives? Why have these forums become so damn cynical? Once I put faith in these forums, but now I dunno, but ever since ME2 specifically, people seem so negative. I also can't help but notice they attitudes shifted after bioware started making deals with EA... perhaps the cause??? Many seem to think they sold out.

Personally I'm afraid the devs will start to strait out ignore us. It seems that their games are getting impressive praise everywhere but these forums... where they seem to get bashed left and right.

Mah, I know this post will prob draw some major flamage, but it was on my mind, and I wanna see what others think. Why do these forums constantly seem to rip on bioware games, where else where outside these forums they recieve mostly praise.

It's really easy to answer this.  DAO and Awakening actually are great games that players of THIS generation enjoy.  The problem is that THIS generation likes games that require little challenge and can be beaten in a few hours.  If you look at the people that have issues with the games of today like DAO you will see they are older players who enjoyed games in the past that you might not actually finish.

I'm actually one of those older generation of players but i am not stupid enough to think companies are going to change since this new style is generating tham large fan bases and metric tons of revenue. 

You also might want to realise those game reviewers RARELY ever give a large well established company bad reviews on their products.  Those sites are getting major kickbacks for their endorsment of those products.  In the end it's all about money and we all know money can buy you all the good press you want.  While at the same time burying the small amount of bad press that may come out.

Modifié par Sylixe, 04 avril 2010 - 11:50 .

[Basher of Glory]

Sylixe wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

EDIT- I'm trying to shy away from debaiting the game's problem, although if they relate to your point thats fine. The OP at least, is more focused on why this community gives such negitive feedback compared to many other forums and sites.

DOUBLE EDIT- Up to this point everyone has been very civil and given great responses. I appreciate it!

I've been part of the bioware forums for a long long time longer then even this username (this is my 2nd username... lost the info to my first it's been so long!.)

I don't know whats happened to these forums. I noticed a strange shift when Dragon Age came out. Many prob have forgotten by now, and only the fans really remain, but what Origins was released there was allot of flaming and allot of hate.Then ME2 came out, and jesus christ, if someone based their opinions soley on the forums, one would think ME2 sucked BIG TIME. Of course, save for those extremely close minded, we know Mass Effect 2 sold great and was very well recieved by fans and critics... depsite what the official forums would have you beleave.

Then comes along Awakening. I take critic reviews with a grain of salt. In truth I put far more importance on what the community thinks. Obviously, the community on these forums is pretty split over awakening. Some love, some hate... with no clear majority opinion.

But i noticed something, user reviews on pretty much everyother site I've visted have been without a doubt very positive towards awakening. "Gamer Scores" on ign.com average out to an 8.4 out a mere 66 reviews. Far more impressive is the 8.3 average on gamespot based on an impressive 600+ reviews. THATS ALLOT of people who liked this game.

What gives? Why have these forums become so damn cynical? Once I put faith in these forums, but now I dunno, but ever since ME2 specifically, people seem so negative. I also can't help but notice they attitudes shifted after bioware started making deals with EA... perhaps the cause??? Many seem to think they sold out.

Personally I'm afraid the devs will start to strait out ignore us. It seems that their games are getting impressive praise everywhere but these forums... where they seem to get bashed left and right.

Mah, I know this post will prob draw some major flamage, but it was on my mind, and I wanna see what others think. Why do these forums constantly seem to rip on bioware games, where else where outside these forums they recieve mostly praise.

It's really easy to answer this.  DAO and Awakening actually are great games that players of THIS generation enjoy.  The problem is that THIS generation likes games that require little challenge and can be beaten in a few hours.  If you look at the people that have issues with the games of today like DAO you will see they are older players who enjoyed games in the past that you might not actually finish.

I'm actually one of those older generation of players but i am not stupid enough to think companies are going to change since this new style is generating tham large fan bases and metric tons of revenue. 

You also might want to realise those game reviewers RARELY ever give a large well established company bad reviews on their products.  Those sites are getting major kickbacks for their endorsment of those products.  In the end it's all about money and we all know money can buy you all the good press you want.  While at the same time burying the small amount of bad press that may come out.

Just to add one more point:
I was, too, disgusted by all the trollings and flamings about ME2. Then I've read a post of someone, which seemed to explain that discrepancy between "old style Bio-board attitude" and the "new style trolls":
ME2 obviously attracted persons, who mostly play shooter games. I don't want to sound like an elitarist, but I guess, everybody would agree, that shooter-fans have a somewhat different style to ...uhm... argue than old fashioned RPG-people, who remember the time, when they were (virtually) sitting at a riverbank, happily hand-knitting jumpers for their beloved Avatar (Ultima).

[Gaius Octavian]

OMGAH BIOWARE DO WHAT I WANT I R TEH ONLY PERSON THAT MATTERS WAAHHHH



I R GONNA CRAI ON FORUMS TO MAKE TEH CORPORATION DO MY BIDDING QQ

[Mintyone]

indeed sylixe.



Times have definitely changed. There is a lot more money in it now. A company the size of EA can afford to influence reviews. It makes sense to do so. The review sites get their funding from advertisement which is tied to visitors. Even if EA doesn't actually bribe the major sites by linking to them (or more direct stuff), it can certainly influence them via their advertisers.



It helps to make games that actually only look good the duration of a reviewers attention-span too (oh lets say about 10 hours). Anyone notice how depth of play and replayability are the first to go in recent games? Where is the loot diversity in DA:O (compared to say diabo2), the balance? Or the things you only notice after a while, like everyone having the same body build, extreme lack of different tile sets in use compared to past products? No, in my mind its clear the money went into first impressions.

[Wishpig]

Gaius Octavian wrote...

OMGAH BIOWARE DO WHAT I WANT I R TEH ONLY PERSON THAT MATTERS WAAHHHH

I R GONNA CRAI ON FORUMS TO MAKE TEH CORPORATION DO MY BIDDING QQ

Proof that you can troll on both sides of the "do you like it" debait.

[CybAnt1]

2) ..." I'm not responsible."

He's not, AFAIK. AFAICS, Mr. Gaider is a storywriter, not a codewriter. (He or someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.) 

He writes the characters, the dialogue, the story, the setting, the lore, and the novels (which enrich the lore), but doesn't actually do any of the coding, pixelmaking, or scripting. 

Personally, I have no complaints in this area. I think the Architect character is fascinating (I don't trust him further than I can throw him, but that's a separate matter). I thought the new characters were well written. I really did enjoy the short, but sweet, story arc of the expansion. 

The bugs are the problem of coders, the graphics problems the pixelmakers. If you want to attack Mr. Gaider for things he can't control, fine, but it is true, those are not his domain. 


I am glad Mr. Gaider not only reads but participates in the forums - he should not be chastised for doing so. There are many developers who would never bother. 

[WARDEN9652]

not to be offensive but i thought dragon age was rated m for "mature" i guess a lot of people on here didnt get the memo =p

[Basher of Glory]

CybAnt1 wrote...

2) ..." I'm not responsible."

He's not, AFAIK. AFAICS, Mr. Gaider is a storywriter, not a codewriter. (He or someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.) 

He writes the characters, the dialogue, the story, the setting, the lore, and the novels (which enrich the lore), but doesn't actually do any of the coding, pixelmaking, or scripting. 

Personally, I have no complaints in this area. I think the Architect character is fascinating (I don't trust him further than I can throw him, but that's a separate matter). I thought the new characters were well written. I really did enjoy the short, but sweet, story arc of the expansion. 

The bugs are the problem of coders, the graphics problems the pixelmakers. If you want to attack Mr. Gaider for things he can't control, fine, but it is true, those are not his domain. 


I am glad Mr. Gaider not only reads but participates in the forums - he should not be chastised for doing so. There are many developers who would never bother. 

You are right:
In my opinion, too, there is not the least reason to call Mr. Gaider's excellent work in question. And of course he is not responsible for coding, graphics etc.

But here on these boards he appears as a representative of his company. As such, his words will have certainly more weight than those of a "normal" customer.

And, btw, you might have noticed that I did neiter evaluate my résumé of his post, nor did I interpret it. For me it was just interesting. It's up to everyone to draw his / her own conclusions.

[Gaius Octavian]

Yrkoon's mom has sexy ankles ._.

[Tajz]

Well i'm sure Bioware has some staff that take all the points in the forum to their meeting.

However i do understand that they're not required to answer every questions in the forum. Either it's a policy or shortage of staff. It's also not easy to answer to public daily, instead i better give them more working time to fix all those issues for us instead.



DLC is the way they make tons of moneys out in term of investment/profit. Again, however i think they will have to take care of the customers who bought DLC as well. I'm sure they got what we felt about Awakening, and i hope they come up with all the fixes and free additional contents for every fans. They're not required to but if they dont, i'm sure the sale number of the next DLC will reflect the feedback of the customers. Rule of thumb.

[BLunted]

NitrusRex wrote...

I've never had anything against Bioware, in fact i actually love em', but bugs in the PS3 version of awakening are beyond reasonable. Anyway I'm sure they'll end up fixing it.

I wouldn't hold your breath. We still have the dex bug they have known about for almost 5 months now

[sami jo]

David Gaider has responded to some of the critical threads, as have others from BW. I know this because I made some rather *too* pointed comments, and he was quite gracious when I apologized. Awakenings has its problems; and while I didn't *hate* it, I didn't love it either. There are a number of serious bugs; and unlike the main campaign, the expansion isn't quite good enough for me to want to play it despite the bugs.

The level of vitriol every time someone from BW does respond to such a thread is not likely to encourage more participation. Yes, there have been some communication issues that I would love to see addressed; but really, folks, it is just a game and the devs who come to the boards are real people whose work we are criticizing.

[Gaius Octavian]

I pose to you all a question to ponder.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?