237 réponses à ce sujet

[AloraKast]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Finiffa wrote...

Game forums will always sway towards the negative. It is simple really. If you like the game then you play it and maybe visit the forums for advice, discussions or give praise. If you don't like the game you probably go the forum and complain. It is the same on every game forum I ever visited.

I don't agree with you. I am fan of X3:TC. You may not like that game, but I do. On their forums devs encourage critique. They allow forum visitors to become beta testers. Just apply and you are in. These people have their own forum which also contains a link to the last stable beta version of the patch. That allows the customers to report bugs and submit feature requests for the next patch (current one is version 2.6 IIRC). There are strict rules for that and no discussion is allowed for reporting bugs. However, if the bug cannot be replicated one can post that. One such post is enough. A dev will visit such a thread and determines whether or not to fix the bug. It's very likely that the bug will be fixed once it can be replicated. If he decides not to fix it then he will state his reasons why. The topic title will be changed to indicate his decision by changing the tag. You can counter that with a response, only within reason. If the bug has been fixed then of course you should test it and verify the intended fix. There is a forum for the beta testers to discuss feature requests or prepare bug fix reports. It also allows to address gameplay issues. Spamming those threads is frowned upon. Feature requests can get be submitted once discussed and a dev visits the thread and marks the request as either rejected or accepted. Of course he'll tell you why in case it has been rejected. Usually the decision aready has become clear in the preparation "phase", so there is no real reason to object.

As a result the general forums tend to be very gentle. The devs clearly earned respect there. When people posts about any problems then usually the beta testers can provide answers that make sense. They can inform that either the problem is under investigation or report the problem.

The game also supports community mods. Some of the best mods make it into the game and become an official part of the game. Of course the author has to give his or her permission first. After one year or so the DRM will be removed from the game. I think that is going to happen with the current or next patch. It's just a nice gesture to the community.

Utopia? Nope. It works.

Hmmm... a good post there, AFW.

What you have described (and apologies if this was mentioned before, I have not yet read all of the pages in this thread) reaffirmed my opinion of one major contributor of why exactly there seems to be so much negativity on these forums.  And that is: lack of communication.

Perhaps 'lack' is not a proper term but it seems to me that there definitely is not enough of communication going on between Bioware/devs and the community on these forums. We see Forum Moderators posting here or there but, like they have stated many times, they are not Bioware, but simply Forum Moderators.

I think the best example of this point would be the whole Bioware Bazaar unveiling... and what happened afterwards. People perceived how the build up and the unveiling was handled in one way or another (though mostly it was one way and that's where those spiffy sigs came from... I'm keeping mine for I do like it and I really enjoyed seeing all the different countries depicted in people's posts) with not much word or any sort of ellaboration from Bioware... and the community raged on. It was only... what... 12 hours... 24 hours... later and SOOO much forum space taken up by angry posts before we heard anything on the subject. We were informed of what was going on... and a large portion of the nerd rage-ism was deflated. 

Most of the community merely wanted to know something.. anything... no, I don't mean going into an in-depth analysis of the how's and why's of the international legal systems... just a simple post from Bioware with a little bit of information.

I know that some say that Bioware doesn't owe us any explanations... but the point here is that much (no, I am not so naive as to believe that ALL) of the negativity in these forums can be avoided by a single post letting the community know what's going on. *sigh* And no, I do not mean that we expect to receive daily progress reports from all of the departments... Just a post every now and then to reassure the majority of the community.  For I think in the end, that is all we, the fans of your games who really enjoy them and feel strongly about them (dare I say feel protective?) are looking for... some reassurance.

Yes, I do have my own strong opinions on a few matters like the 1.03 patch... Awakening... the Festday DLC... well, mostly the 1.03 patch... And all I'm saying is that after what... a few weeks... a month? of known issues existing... a simple post saying 'Hi guys, we are aware of these issues and are working on addressing them, please bear with us" would go a LOOONG way to reassure the fans that visit these boards. Sometimes we need to be reminded to be patient and I do believe that a simple post meant to reassure would accomplish just that... and so much more.

[AloraKast]

PS. Sorry I forgot something:



Let me put it this way... Think of this as a relationship. And just as in any healthy relationship... well, you know I love you and I know you love me... but every once in a while, it is nice to be reminded of that fact, to be reassured... but if you do the reminding every 5 minutes, then the end result would only be annoyance and cheapening of the whole sentiment.

[BLunted]

AloraKast wrote...

PS. Sorry I forgot something:

Let me put it this way... Think of this as a relationship. And just as in any healthy relationship... well, you know I love you and I know you love me... but every once in a while, it is nice to be reminded of that fact, to be reassured... but if you do the reminding every 5 minutes, then the end result would only be annoyance and cheapening of the whole sentiment.

I think if this were a relationship, Bioware would be standing on the front lawn right now while their significant other was throwing their worldly possessions out of the second storey window.

The fanboys/girls would be the spouses that would take bioware back after they cheated.

I know it doesn't relate to anything, but kind of the mental image I got when reading your posts

I am sure some will flame...

Modifié par BLunted, 06 avril 2010 - 09:37 .

[AloraKast]

BLunted wrote...

I think if this were a relationship, Bioware would be standing on the front lawn right now while their significant other was throwing their worldly possessions out of the second storey window.

The fanboys/girls would be the spouses that would take bioware back after they cheated.

I know it doesn't relate to anything, but kind of the mental image I got when reading your posts

I am sure some will flame...

Hahahaha... sorry, but THAT mental imagine definitely brought about a laught.  Thank you for that my dear.

[Basher of Glory]

@ BLunted

If I understood correctly, then you called AloraKast a "Fangirl", right?
If so, I cant see why. IMO, with her opinion she represents many people here, which were called
"a lot of thoughtful, discerning folks" by Mr. Gaider. 

Many other posters wrote soemthing like this (paraphrased):
"...if we wouldn't care, we would just delete all that stuff from our HD and / or reclaim our money and then move on. But we are here and we TRY to appeal to BioWare's honour."

Perhaps you heard of the old cliché of love and hatred not being opposite feelings. Thus, even those posters who missed to be polite, give evidence that they still CARE.

A vast majority does nothing else than ASK FOR SOME WORDS OF CLARIFICATION!

For more and more inexplicable reasons BioWare withholds that information. Now, if hatred is not opposite of love, then ignorance certainly is. Thus, BioWare's silence tells us exactly how they care about us.

Yet, AloraKast dares to start another effort to receive a little bit of feedback and what happens? She is accused to be a "fangirl".

Sometimes it is really hard to comprehend some people's ways to think.

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 07 avril 2010 - 12:11 .

[Wishpig]

Baher of Glory wrote...

@ BLunted

If I understood correctly, then you called AloraKast a "Fangirl", right?
If so, I cant see why. IMO, with her opinion she represents many people here, which were called
"a lot of thoughtful, discerning folks" by Mr. Gaider. 

Many other posters wrote soemthing like this (paraphrased):
"...if we wouldn't care, we would just delete all that stuff from our HD and / or reclaim our money and then move on. But we are here and we TRY to appeal to BioWare's honour."

Perhaps you heard of the old cliché of love and hatred not being opposite feelings. Thus, even those posters who missed to be polite, give evidence that they still CARE.

A vast majority does nothing else than ASK FOR SOME WORDS OF CLARIFICATION!

For more and more inexplicable reasons BioWare withholds that information. Now, if hatred is not opposite of love, then ignorance certainly is. Thus, BioWare's silence tells us exactly how they care about us.

Yet, AloraKast dares to start another effort to receive a little bit of feedback and what happens? She is accused to be a "fangirl".

Sometimes it is really hard to comprehend some people's ways to think.

This whole comparing bioware's presence on forums to a boyfriend/girlfriend situation is getting kind of weird. Then brining love into the mix... thats downright creepy.

[micheal001]

I was bored with the whole Dragon Age. So much detail was left out such if you picked the option too have prisoner hanged(howel) I think it was that you don't get too see happen. And walking around the outside of the keep you see a few soldiers walking around like there lost you don't see and officers training new trooper...remember theres a war on with the darkspawn. And when you leave the keep you can't walk around the village near the keep I'm sure there is one.

And what good are you commanders in the keep they just stand there like stumps....the treasure whats her name I've forgetton already (wimppoes) just smiles at you not offering anything but the merchants are bringing in the gold....yah gold for everyone.

But when you leave the keep and go too the basement I was hoping too see a darkspawn in the jail cell not some noobies over weight prisoneers..I wonder how long they had been there maybe they were waiting for me.

And when traveling too do the quests I never got a sense that darkspawn were ever dangerous. I seen a few hanged people but never any carnage from those razer sharp teethed monsters.

The thing I truly disliked was making everyone a warden..so many times I wanted too kill each of them and scream..NO WARDEN HERE....and where is Morgan the woman carrying the baby....I bet shes spinning yarn now waiting for more wardens.

take a peek...

http://www.actiontri..._comic374.phtml

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

its probably been said, but I'm annoyed that the game is still buggy and glitchy, yet Bioware stays silent on that matter and just rolls things out like everything's dandy. Wasn't patch 1.03 released a couple weeks before Awak? and now Awak's been out for close to a month? Bioware had this big countdown for a flippin' auction, and then released gift DLC ie we pay real money to see a few unique reactions ingame. I'd rather pay a friend to do something retarded in public.



They just roll out all this (pointless) stuff while the game is bugged 10 ways to Sunday, and they aren't letting us know what the F's going on. That's my irritation with them.

[Basher of Glory]

Wishpig wrote...

This whole comparing bioware's presence on forums to a boyfriend/girlfriend situation is getting kind of weird. Then brining love into the mix... thats downright creepy.

I intended an allegory or a metaphor. If I wasn't able to make it understandable for you, then please forgive me.

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 07 avril 2010 - 01:07 .

[Yrkoon]

yasuraka.hakkyou wrote...

In general, the bugs and glitches in both Origins and Awak are getting on people's nerves. the base game has been out close to half a year and there are still bugs from Origins launch that haven't been fixed, to my knowledge. I don't know how that compares to other games and going from buggy launches to patch days, though.

I do.  It's  slow and deliberately lazy compared to other games and other companies.  No question about that.  Obsidian put out NWN2 and it was buggy as hell  out of the box.  But within 6 months thay had  released a half dozen patches....  some of them Major.... fixing 20-30 issues at a time.

What have we gotten here?  Practically nothing.  The first patch for Origins featured a grand total of what?   3 or 4 minor fixes?  Ditto with 1.02 and 1.03.   The readme's of those patches fits into one small paragraph.

And I think we all know the reason for that:  EA/Bioware   do not want to waste time and resources  on patches that they can't sell.  Not  when there's a modding community out there that's more than willing to fix their mistakes for them  for free.  In the meantime THEY can  just stick to pumping out DLCS

I'm sure some of you are just  totally OK with that.  I'm not.  "business" practices like that make me want to come on here and  be negative.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 07 avril 2010 - 01:27 .

[BomimoDK]

i love this game. and Awakening has so far provided me intelligent hateable antagonists, which i missed in Origins. my only gripe with this game is a lack of a 200+ page manual with the full ruleset A'la BG1+2 manuals.

i am delighted that the quality of the content has improved in many ways. the graphics have been crisped abit, the bugs are few, met only one which teleported be to the walls of amaranthine, who am i to complain? the story's got some meat and i get to play king in the manner that Fable 3 supposedly should offer.

i'm looking forward to the next expansion with glimpses in my eyes. i'll finnish Awakening during this week and finish my BGT run, return to finally playing ME for the first time, play some God of War 3. then, i will forget about the game untill some other expansion is announced, at which time i'll have all my Fanboy equipment ready.

[Wishpig]

Baher of Glory wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

This whole comparing bioware's presence on forums to a boyfriend/girlfriend situation is getting kind of weird. Then brining love into the mix... thats downright creepy.

I intended an allegory or a metaphor. If I wasn't able to make it understandable for you, then please forgive me.

I forgive you, but the wound will take time to heal.

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

Yrkoon wrote...

yasuraka.hakkyou wrote...

In general, the bugs and glitches in both Origins and Awak are getting on people's nerves. the base game has been out close to half a year and there are still bugs from Origins launch that haven't been fixed, to my knowledge. I don't know how that compares to other games and going from buggy launches to patch days, though.

I do.  It's  slow and deliberately lazy compared to other games and other companies.  No question about that.  Obsidian put out NWN2 and it was buggy as hell  out of the box.  But within 6 months thay had  released a half dozen patches....  some of them Major.... fixing 20-30 issues at a time.

What have we gotten here?  Practically nothing.  The first patch for Origins featured a grand total of what?   3 or 4 minor fixes?  Ditto with 1.02 and 1.03.   The readme's of those patches fits into one small paragraph.

And I think we all know the reason for that:  EA/Bioware   do not want to waste time and resources  on patches that they can't sell.  Not  when there's a modding community out there that's more than willing to fix their mistakes for them  for free.  In the meantime THEY can  just stick to pumping out DLCS

I'm sure some of you are just  totally OK with that.  I'm not.  "business" practices like that make me want to come on here and  be negative.

I see, and agree. It's lazy on Bioware's / EA's part, and I'm not ok with this practice either.

I'm curious and slightly ignorant, I'm afraid, as to why you say they couldn't sell the patches, though.

[Wishpig]

yasuraka.hakkyou wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

yasuraka.hakkyou wrote...

In general, the bugs and glitches in both Origins and Awak are getting on people's nerves. the base game has been out close to half a year and there are still bugs from Origins launch that haven't been fixed, to my knowledge. I don't know how that compares to other games and going from buggy launches to patch days, though.

I do.  It's  slow and deliberately lazy compared to other games and other companies.  No question about that.  Obsidian put out NWN2 and it was buggy as hell  out of the box.  But within 6 months thay had  released a half dozen patches....  some of them Major.... fixing 20-30 issues at a time.

What have we gotten here?  Practically nothing.  The first patch for Origins featured a grand total of what?   3 or 4 minor fixes?  Ditto with 1.02 and 1.03.   The readme's of those patches fits into one small paragraph.

And I think we all know the reason for that:  EA/Bioware   do not want to waste time and resources  on patches that they can't sell.  Not  when there's a modding community out there that's more than willing to fix their mistakes for them  for free.  In the meantime THEY can  just stick to pumping out DLCS

I'm sure some of you are just  totally OK with that.  I'm not.  "business" practices like that make me want to come on here and  be negative.

I see, and agree. It's lazy on Bioware's / EA's part, and I'm not ok with this practice either.

I'm curious and slightly ignorant, I'm afraid, as to why you say they couldn't sell the patches, though.

He means if theres no profit in it, thus they don't care that much about patching the game.

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

hmm, I guess I see. Like, since a lot of people have already bought it, EA / Bioware doesn't care if its bugged up the arse? <_<

[Basher of Glory]

yasuraka.hakkyou wrote...

hmm, I guess I see. Like, since a lot of people have already bought it, EA / Bioware doesn't care if its bugged up the arse? <_<

Well, at the moment it exactly looks like this.

I'm sure, it was nothing but a coincidence, but releasing some... questionable DLC for the easter holidays just seems to underline this thesis.

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 07 avril 2010 - 02:32 .

[Forteg]

Yes the gaming side of Awakening is good, hence why Gamespot rated it 8.4 or whatever, but as an expansion its very disappointing as not much relates back to the first game and you cant get to know your companions too much, some of the best features of Origins (especially the convo system) have been taken out of Awakening, many people also dont like not being able to romance, if Origins didnt set the bar at such a high standard i think more people would be satisfied with Awakening though.

[Forteg]

So yeah i enjoyed the game but i enjoyed Origins a hell of a lot more

[13Dannyboy13]

yasuraka.hakkyou wrote...

hmm, I guess I see. Like, since a lot of people have already bought it, EA / Bioware doesn't care if its bugged up the arse? <_<

That seems to be the case sadly.... I mean six months after the release and they can't even fix origins or give any sort of timeline for a real patch. Most of the bugs also carry over to awakenings including the glitched endings which really takes away from the whole story. Sadly I play this on my xbox 360 meaning six months later I'm still waiting for the dex fix which was in the 1.02 patch that the pc got, which really makes me wonder why the rest of us can't have it as well. The facts speak for themselves, and from their behavior so far you can only assume that they in fact do not care about fixing the game, only about getting even more money out of us. There's no excuse for nothing being done to fix this game after six months, I'm very disappointed.

[Proposition_Joe]

What i am interested in is if Bioware listens to the criticism of Awakening on the forums no matter if they think its right or wrong. Or if they see thoose that particiapate as "the small voice" becuase there is relativley few that goes to their forum in relation to how many that bought their product. Therefore ignoring some very plausible criticism and go about their business.

I mean if Awakenings get high reviews in magazines and alot of people buy it is Bioware content with that even though there are some massive cries (rightly or wrongly) of unfinished/rushed game,a pletora of bugs,onedimensional companions and so on. Do they look themselves in the mirror and say hey maybe we did something wrong with this product or do they just pat themselves on the back on the way to the bank? Thats what im intererested in.

[Wishpig]

Proposition_Joe wrote...

What i am interested in is if Bioware listens to the criticism of Awakening on the forums no matter if they think its right or wrong. Or if they see thoose that particiapate as "the small voice" becuase there is relativley few that goes to their forum in relation to how many that bought their product. Therefore ignoring some very plausible criticism and go about their business.
I mean if Awakenings get high reviews in magazines and alot of people buy it is Bioware content with that even though there are some massive cries (rightly or wrongly) of unfinished/rushed game,a pletora of bugs,onedimensional companions and so on. Do they look themselves in the mirror and say hey maybe we did something wrong with this product or do they just pat themselves on the back on the way to the bank? Thats what im intererested in.

Well, the answers to your questions are prob not so cut and dry.

Unless Gaider is lying, yes the devs do visit these forums and pay attention to the criticisms.

BUT I'm sure their smart enough to also realise that these forums are a very "small voice" of the overall whole who bought their game. Not only that, but even as a "small voice" we tend to be very biased and poor represntation of the consumer base as a whole... as many of us are hardcore gamers, fanboys, ect.

As to how they feel about the game being so buggy, well their all human and all have diffrent opinions I'm sure. Maybe a few devs really don't care. Maybe some aren't proud and do feel bad. Maybe some are inbetween.

But, I mean, hell, it's HARD and TEDIOUS work. Your work insane hours for  YEARS to get this product out (remember many origin devs started working on awakening long before origins was even released), you have deadlines left and right, and there is allot of hairpulling. Then the game comes out and sells pretty damn well, you have a wieght lifted on your shoulders. I'm sure the drive to work on the game is severley dimished after release. I'm also sure that many devs just want to move on. Imagine working on the same damn thing for 5 years strait, I'm sure you would get pretty damn sick of it.

Personally, I went to college for videogame design. After two years I changed to an anthropology major. I couldn't take it, it was insane. I dunno how these guys don't blow their brains out with boredom and frustration. Thats prob why I really don't demand much from my favorite game devs. Lol, I guess you could say I pity them.

Modifié par Wishpig, 07 avril 2010 - 01:09 .

[ToJKa1]

yasuraka.hakkyou wrote...

hmm, I guess I see. Like, since a lot of people have already bought it, EA / Bioware doesn't care if its bugged up the arse? <_<

But they have to understand that leaving a game in buggy state will affect the sales of the sequel. In short term thinking leaving the game in a buggy state would be more profitable (fixing bugs can be quite expensive, and since patches aren't sold it will only cost money), but in the long term it will cost sales.

Or will it? For example Oblivion was left in an extremely buggy state, yet Fallout 3 sold very well. Fallout 3 was left in a quite a buggy state too, and i hear the PS3 GOTY edition is nearly unplayable, yet people are eagerly awaiting for TES V and/or Fallout 4, including me. We are our own worst enemy..

[StuBurn]

I think one of the biggest facts in the change to moaning is the inclusion of Console users (Don't flame me I am actually a console user rather than a PC user) what I mean by that is numbers. Rather than a single group on the forum there is now a much larger base of users and in all truth console users were up until recently used to higher polished titles (No possibility for patches meant games needed to be 100% or they would die a death)



With the new generation of consoles games designers are given more leway to fix problems after shipping which to a lot of console users means "Da game is bad!"



I am more realistic in these situations, with consoles now capable of dealing with the larger games the level of "polish" the developers can apply will always be a little lower, but I honestly believe that a large number of the new users are too used to high quality and even the smallest issue / error is enough to cause fury.



Just my opinions though

[BLunted]

Baher of Glory wrote...

@ BLunted

If I understood correctly, then you called AloraKast a "Fangirl", right?
If so, I cant see why. IMO, with her opinion she represents many people here, which were called
"a lot of thoughtful, discerning folks" by Mr. Gaider. 

Many other posters wrote soemthing like this (paraphrased):
"...if we wouldn't care, we would just delete all that stuff from our HD and / or reclaim our money and then move on. But we are here and we TRY to appeal to BioWare's honour."

Perhaps you heard of the old cliché of love and hatred not being opposite feelings. Thus, even those posters who missed to be polite, give evidence that they still CARE.

A vast majority does nothing else than ASK FOR SOME WORDS OF CLARIFICATION!

For more and more inexplicable reasons BioWare withholds that information. Now, if hatred is not opposite of love, then ignorance certainly is. Thus, BioWare's silence tells us exactly how they care about us.

Yet, AloraKast dares to start another effort to receive a little bit of feedback and what happens? She is accused to be a "fangirl".

Sometimes it is really hard to comprehend some people's ways to think.

You were reading waaay to much into my post. Relax, I wasn't calling AloraKast anything. I just happened to share a whimisical musing I had. I even said it didn't relate to anything.

I am in the same boat as most of you guys/gals. I thought Awakenings was crapola and would like some answers, however, I think I am reaching the point where I have just written Awakening off. I only finished it once, but have no desire to even play it again as it was such a sub-par product by Bioware's standards.

I wish Bioware would just go back to making DLC that enriched Origins. Awakenings was too much of a departure, and now Bio will probably just make DLC for Awakenings, which sucks

[BLunted]

StuBurn wrote...

I think one of the biggest facts in the change to moaning is the inclusion of Console users (Don't flame me I am actually a console user rather than a PC user) what I mean by that is numbers. Rather than a single group on the forum there is now a much larger base of users and in all truth console users were up until recently used to higher polished titles (No possibility for patches meant games needed to be 100% or they would die a death)

With the new generation of consoles games designers are given more leway to fix problems after shipping which to a lot of console users means "Da game is bad!"

I am more realistic in these situations, with consoles now capable of dealing with the larger games the level of "polish" the developers can apply will always be a little lower, but I honestly believe that a large number of the new users are too used to high quality and even the smallest issue / error is enough to cause fury.

Just my opinions though

I play on the PS3 and have to agree. Generally games on the consoles are pretty polished, and if there are bugs, patches come out relatively fast.

On PS3, we have received only one patch(1.01) and that was mostly to prep the game for awakenings. It boggles my mind that I cannot make a crossbow archer or min/max a dagger rogue because in the 5 months that the game has been out Bioware has not been able to correct what are essentially typos.

This is not sub-par service by Bioware's standards...it is sub-par by anybody's standards.