11146 réponses à ce sujet

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

I have no problems with regicide, or the murder of whatever standing leader exists.



It's the sloppieness, poor planning and execution, and poor motivations for doing so that get me.



My Aeducan is abolutely cool with regicide if said regent/king is completely worthless, and/or a threat to the goals and benefits in mind.



But it must be done carefully and masterfully.

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

So you're planning on committing regicide personally?

She's a paragon, she can do whatever she wants.

Well, as long as you don't get caught you can do anything you want to. I always figured he'd die from stress/old age/ regicide by the time I finished putting House Aeducan back in order (just how many of them died in the rebellion?) and rebuilding my case for the throne so there wasn't a very pressing need to act.

This applies to all people and should be taught in schools.

[Sarah1281]

I have no problems with regicide, or the murder of whatever standing leader exists.

Most people who would want to commit regicide either intend to succeed them or have a champion succeed them and in that case...why would you want to become King if you've shown it's okay to do away with him?

[KnightofPhoenix]

What my DN did was different. He saw the possibility of becoming king if he supports Harrowmont. But he decided not to, in favor of having Bhelen.

The key reason is this. He at that time found out that Alistair is of Therein blood, so his scheming political mind already hatched a plan. He wanted to put Alistair as king and make himself his chancellor (evil chancellor trope). Of course, he purposely did not harden Alistair, because he wants him weak.
So he couldn't carry out this plan and be king of Orzammar at the same time.

So he figured him and Bhelen could in fact cooperate. On one hand, Bhelen is strengthening Orzammar from within, breaking the stagnation of tradition and expanding trade and relations to the surface. On the otherhand, the DN would be effectively ruling or at the very least influencing Ferelden to help the Dwarves and reciprocate Bhelen's policies of rapprochement. This also gives the DN leverage. Bhelen needs the surface to reciprocate with his plans, so if the DN feels like it, he can always cut trade (which he wouldn't do unprovoked. The good of Orzammar is more important than petty grudges).
That plus he would influence Ferelden into militarily supporting Orzammar. 

The DN and Bhelen's combined efforts from within and without would secure the Dwarves and House Aeducan's future. Furthermore, as paragon, the DN could excersie pressure on Bhelen, if only because he is supremily popular and thus capable of creating and leading opposition if provoked.
 

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I have no problems with regicide, or the murder of whatever standing leader exists.

Most people who would want to commit regicide either intend to succeed them or have a champion succeed them and in that case...why would you want to become King if you've shown it's okay to do away with him?

More complex than that. If you're good, he just appears to die from something other than your hand. In general, however, that kind of plotting and scheming is routine in Orzammar. Every dwarven noble plots for it. it's just that the Aeducans have been better for centuries outwitting such attempts.

M<Y DN with aspirations to retain the throne is of such a mind.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

What my DN did was different. He saw the possibility of becoming king if he supports Harrowmont. But he decided not to, in favor of having Bhelen.

The key reason is this. He at that time found out that Alistair is of Therein blood, so his scheming political mind already hatched a plan. He wanted to put Alistair as king and make himself his chancellor (evil chancellor trope). Of course, he purposely did not harden Alistair, because he wants him weak.
So he couldn't carry out this plan and be king of Orzammar at the same time.

So he figured him and Bhelen could in fact cooperate. On one hand, Bhelen is strengthening Orzammar from within, breaking the stagnation of tradition and expanding trade and relations to the surface. On the otherhand, the DN would be effectively ruling or at the very least influencing Ferelden to help the Dwarves and reciprocate Bhelen's policies of rapprochement. This also gives the DN leverage. Bhelen needs the surface to reciprocate with his plans, so if the DN feels like it, he can always cut trade (which he wouldn't do unprovoked. The good of Orzammar is more important than petty grudges).
That plus he would influence Ferelden into militarily supporting Orzammar. 

The DN and Bhelen's combined efforts from within and without would secure the Dwarves and House Aeducan's future. Furthermore, as paragon, the DN could excersie pressure on Bhelen, if only because he is supremily popular and thus capable of creating and leading opposition if provoked.
 

You see, this is why I love the dwarf origins. The DN, for me, is the most intellectually stimulating of them all, and there are various valid ways to play it.

Orzammar is a damned good video game study of realpolitik and well implemented Machievellianism.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
You see, this is why I love the dwarf origins. The DN, for me, is the most intellectually stimulating of them all, and there are various valid ways to play it.

Orzammar is a damned good video game study of realpolitik and well implemented Machievellianism.

Yes definately. While the Human noble is my favored origin, Dwarf noble comes as a very close second.
 
What I posted is just the political aspect of my DN's plan. One aspect of it is personal vis a vis Bhelen.
He was very impressed with Bhelen and even proud to a certain extent. I RPed him as once being close to him and "always being there for him" as Bhelen puts it. To see Bhelen pull it off like that was awe inspiring. So he felt Bhelen deserved the throne.

BUT, he wasn't going to let his little brother surpass him. Siding against him and killing him is too meeh. An unspectacular way of proving who is best. He wanted Bhelen alive to see the brother he tried to kill rule over Ferelden and become more powerful than him (good for him he becomes Paragon). That is how one proves he is better than the other. Not simply killing them, in my DN's mind.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 05 mai 2010 - 02:52 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...
You see, this is why I love the dwarf origins. The DN, for me, is the most intellectually stimulating of them all, and there are various valid ways to play it.

Orzammar is a damned good video game study of realpolitik and well implemented Machievellianism.

Yes definately. While the Human noble is my favored origin, Dwarf noble comes as a very close second.
 
What I posted is just the political aspect of my DN's plan. One aspect of it is personal vis a vis Bhelen.
He was very impressed with Bhelen and even proud to a certain extent. I RPed him as once being close to him and "always being there for him" as Bhelen puts it. To see Bhelen pull it off like that was awe inspiring. So he felt Bhelen deserved the throne.

BUT, he wasn't going to let his little brother surpass him. Siding against him and killing him is too meeh. An unspectacular way of proving who is best. He wanted Bhelen alive to see the brother he tried to kill rule over Ferelden and become more powerful than him (good for him he becomes Paragon). That is how one proves he is better than the other. Not simply killing them, in my DN's mind.

A far more bloodless and subtle way of doing it, and far more cunning.

My DN hardened Alistair and made him marry Anora so I could get Loggy (yeah, me metagaming, but I could totally find justifications for my actions). Even hardened, Alistair is still strongly ruled by emotionals and heart, aspects easily manipulated even in a hardened Alistair. She had some respect for Anora, and saw the potential for an alliance, as well as back-scratching, and was pretty sure that Anora was strong and clever enough to out-wit Alistair, and out-maneuver him.

There are many dimensions to the characters we roleplay. Many people like to discuss the personal aspects, but I find the broader, more abstract aspects of the characters to be even more stimulating to discuss. My favorite origin is mage from a personal aspect. I'm torn between the dwarven and HN as second.

[Sarah1281]

The DN and Bhelen's combined efforts from within and without would secure the Dwarves and House Aeducan's future. Furthermore, as paragon, the DN could excersie pressure on Bhelen, if only because he is supremily popular and thus capable of creating and leading opposition if provoked. 

That sounds like a good plan but it seems to require you staying on the surface forever.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

The DN and Bhelen's combined efforts from within and without would secure the Dwarves and House Aeducan's future. Furthermore, as paragon, the DN could excersie pressure on Bhelen, if only because he is supremily popular and thus capable of creating and leading opposition if provoked. 

That sounds like a good plan but it seems to require you staying on the surface forever.

Doesn't mean he can't visit Orzammar every now and then. But yes, he will have to live on the surface.
I think he would probably raise his son on the surface, so that he can inherit his father's position as chancellor of the Thereins. That, in addition to protecting him from any potential plot Bhelen might pull off, should he want to favor his own children for succession.

Two swords can't fit in one scabbard, so yea. Dain Aeducan and Bhelen can't be in the same place.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 05 mai 2010 - 03:12 .

[Gilsa]

@Knight -- re: unhardened Alistair as king so DN can weild power over him



Who did the ritual with Morrigan in that game? I'm always curious how male players play this angle out because the female PC is stuck with just Alistair (or Log) as their only option while the male players can do it themselves or talk Alistair into doing it. This lends to more roleplay possibilities that get to play out. Does the DN do it and keep Alistair in the dark or does the DN talk Alistair into doing it so he can use that information as blackmail material over Alistair in case the god-baby bites Ferelden in the ass someday?

[Sarah1281]

You know, I've never gotten that far in a male playthrough so if you try to talk Alistair/Loghain into doing the DR...do either of them ask why don't you just do it if you're so keen on the idea?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Gilsa wrote...

@Knight -- re: unhardened Alistair as king so DN can weild power over him

Who did the ritual with Morrigan in that game? I'm always curious how male players play this angle out because the female PC is stuck with just Alistair (or Log) as their only option while the male players can do it themselves or talk Alistair into doing it. This lends to more roleplay possibilities that get to play out. Does the DN do it and keep Alistair in the dark or does the DN talk Alistair into doing it so he can use that information as blackmail material over Alistair in case the god-baby bites Ferelden in the ass someday?

One reason why he made Alistair do it yes.
The others are:
- he doesn't trust Morrigan with his child. And if anyone is going to assume responsability for her future actions, it's not going to be him.
- he doesn't like humans (sexually speaking. And neither does he like elves) and call him racist, but the idea of a "half dwarf" makes him shiver. He doesn't mind getting close to the surfacers and expanding relations with them, but at heart he is a very proud Dwarf. He is not a fan of intermixing. That, in addition to him not caring about "old gods" human myths nonsense.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 05 mai 2010 - 03:22 .

[Gilsa]

Sarah1281 wrote...

You know, I've never gotten that far in a male playthrough so if you try to talk Alistair/Loghain into doing the DR...do either of them ask why don't you just do it if you're so keen on the idea?

Log: "That may be true. I could die before ever reaching the dragon. Still, this is unwise. Do not ask me to be a part of it."
(IF: romance active) PC: "Do you think I would ask this if it wasn't important?"
Log: "Perhaps not, but if you are so... attached, then why do you not lie with the woman? I find it difficult to believe I'm so special."
1. I believe this is necessary, but I'll leave it up to you.
2. We don't have time to go over this. Just agree to do it.
3. You're right. I can't ask you to do this.
(The PC doesn't actually answer Log's question, but it does get brought up.)

-------------------------

Alistair: "Look, even if I was willing to do this... and I'm not saying I am... do you really think this is a good idea? You're my friend, but we're talking about Morrigan..."
(IF: Morrigan in love or made love with PC) PC: "Do you think I would ask you to do this if I wasn't sure?"
Alistair: "I... suppose not. Not that the idea of sleeping with your woman exactly thrills me, either, now that you mention it..."
1. You need to trust me.
2. I'm sure this is the right thing to do.
3. We don't have time to go over this. Just agree.
4. You're right. I can't ask you to do this.

---------------------------

[Return to Morrigan]

Morrigan: "What is it to be, then? Has a decision been reached?"
PC: "I'm sorry, Morrigan. Isn't there some other way?"
(IF: PC is male) Morrigan: "The only other way was with you. Unless you have changed your mind...?"
PC: "Yes, I suppose I have no choice. I'll do it."
(IF: Alistair) Alistair: "What's this? I didn't realize that was an option." (VO: startled)
(IF: Loghain) Loghain: "Perhaps I should leave you two alone." (VO: said while rolling his eyes in disgust)
Morrigan: "A wise decision."
(IF: Morrgan at LOVE) Morrigan: "Come, my love. Put the thoughts of the ritual aside and let us make this last night together one to remember."
(Not at love) Morrigan: "Come to me, then, and we shall make this last night together something to remember."

[Gilsa]

That's a perfectly reasonable attitude for a dwarf. Elves are discouraged from breeding outside of their race so they don't get bred out of extinction, too. So not wanting a half-dwarf (would cause a social stigma in Orzammar) is logical. That makes sense -- hadn't looked at it that way, thanks. I love all the different dwarven lenses on game events.

[soignee]

Gilsa wrote...

That's a perfectly reasonable attitude for a dwarf. Elves are discouraged from breeding outside of their race so they don't get bred out of extinction, too. So not wanting a half-dwarf (would cause a social stigma in Orzammar) is logical. That makes sense -- hadn't looked at it that way, thanks. I love all the different dwarven lenses on game events.

yeah my racist Mahariel fell for Morrigan hard but still boned her for the ritual, because he was head over heels for the woman.

MORRIGAN WHY YOU BROKE MY HEART WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Also lolololol look I did another chaper, I'm going to 'hore it here too as Zev thread and Dwarf thread occasionally overlap but not very.

[Sarah1281]

Also lolololol look I did another chaper, I'm going to 'hore it here too as Zev thread and Dwarf thread occasionally overlap but not very.

Like yesterday. How is your brain after the overlapping caused it to explode?

[soignee]

Inorite? Maybe I should start spamming this thread who pictures of boobs and sweaty mens like I do ZevThread, and the occasional gif. Because that will go down so swimmingly with some of the posters here

[Sarah1281]

soignee wrote...

Inorite? Maybe I should start spamming this thread who pictures of boobs and sweaty mens like I do ZevThread, and the occasional gif. Because that will go down so swimmingly with some of the posters here

Don't most of them already visit the Zev thread, at least occasionally? 

[Gilsa]

Another reason to be a PC user! There's a mod that makes this "A Night To Remember." <3










Edit: You're welcome, btw.

Edit 2: Forgot to link the mod, my bad.

Last Night With Morrigan
http://www.dragonage...ile.php?id=1142

Modifié par Gilsa, 05 mai 2010 - 09:25 .

[soignee]

...AND GILSA DELIVVERRRRRRRS

[Herr Uhl]

^The above gave KoP a spontaneous orgasm.

[soignee]

Herr Uhl wrote...

^The above gave KoP a spontaneous orgasm.

I lol'd. BECAUSE IT IS TRUE.

[Sarah1281]

soignee wrote...

...AND GILSA DELIVVERRRRRRRS

Although I do wonder just how she intends to get pregnant with some of those positions and without removing all of her clothing.

[KnightofPhoenix]

.....I don't really know how to feel about this....

Herr Uhl wrote...

^The above gave KoP a spontaneous orgasm.

That's not a feeling. Just a bodily reaction beyond my control....

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 05 mai 2010 - 04:00 .