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Dwarven (Master Race) Appreciation Thread


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#2676
Herr Uhl

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

soignee wrote...
Ah Dust Town; you sre so sh*teous. A woman's worth is measured by what's between your legs if you're there. Oh sureeeee you can collect garbage, clean vents... You don't have to wh*re. But Noble Hunting seems to be the only valid way out... Short of being a Grey Warden of course. >.>


If they produce a male child that is. If they give birth to a daughter, they are still stuck and the father basically has to abandon his own daugther, because he can't elevate her to his rank.

A very idiotic system. I hope Bhelen crushes it under his heel.  


It is kind of logical to have something like that in a caste system. You are only comparing the extremes here, but if let's say a smith and a merchant got a kid, the same-gender parent is an easy way to determine caste.

#2677
soignee

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I doubt it. Though this game insists gender issues are equal, not by that much.

And yeah I hope Bhelen gets rid of the Noble Hunter nonsense; at least he lets the casteless fight Legion-stye to get honour in his reform. Since I am a cynical bastard at heart a part of me thinks dwarven society willl slip back the Assembly hellhole it was when Bhelen dies and another power vacuum is created.

Modifié par soignee, 05 mai 2010 - 02:15 .


#2678
KnightofPhoenix

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Herr Uhl wrote...
It is kind of logical to have something like that in a caste system. You are only comparing the extremes here, but if let's say a smith and a merchant got a kid, the same-gender parent is an easy way to determine caste.


The entire caste system and the concept of "casteless" is idiotic, that's what I mean.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 05 mai 2010 - 02:16 .


#2679
Costin_Razvan

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But yeah I agree with that you Bhelen can't show Rica affection due to her courtesan status. If she gets elevated to House Brosca thanks to her sibling's paragon status, however... It all changes.

The fact Bhelen allows Rica's mother to come with her in the Royal Palace shows me how much he loves her. You know a drunken **** who SPITS in the royal palace....

And that was BEFORE she got pregnant.

Also. Bhelen does show himself publicly with Rica. If you speak with Lord Helmi and ask him : "Why not support Bhelen?" and then choose the response that he took in Rica in his house, then Helmi mentions that he saw Bhelen and Rica in public.

I was more referring to the fact that he does not show he loves her, even in private with the DC he does not mentions it, does he does imply it slightly.

A very idiotic system. I hope Bhelen crushes it under his heel.


There were similar systems in our history. But I do agree the Dwarva system is very extreme.

 Since I am a cynical bastard at heart a part of me thinks dwarven society willl slip back the Assembly hellhole it was when Bhelen dies and another power vacuum is created


Not if little Endrin becomes king!

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 05 mai 2010 - 02:19 .


#2680
soignee

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okay Costin, you got me rethinking the Bhelen/Rica dynamic. I still think he's a narcissist though.

*eta* the whole reason I wrote Lina in is I wanted a foil to show how damn lucky Rica is for being in love with her "john" and how she landed on her feet as a Noble Hunter. It really was a dwarven Pretty Woman, and let's face it wh*ring is not like that. At all.

I of course do no bregrudge Rica her happy ending, but who would? Unless you're somehow a socialpath with lack of empathy, or something.

Modifié par soignee, 05 mai 2010 - 02:32 .


#2681
Costin_Razvan

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Maybe he is, I dunno. I just was slightly offended that you thought Bhelen did not love Rica when he clearly does, considering all the things he has done for when he didn't have to :P

It is worth considering that while Bhelen does what he does and get's king he also makes a lot of changes for the betterment of his people, for no gain of his own ( unless you can count assassination attempts a gain ).

Sure he only considers himself the ONLY capable ruler of Orzammar, but let's face it: Trian was a moron, the DN himself would have either killed Bhelen eventually or was too weak to rule in the first place anyway. I am not going to talk about Harrowmont.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 05 mai 2010 - 02:31 .


#2682
soignee

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Costin_Razvan wrote...

I don't disagree. I just was slightly offended that you thought Bhelen did not love Rica when he clearly does, considering all the things he has done for when he didn't have to :P


As I put in my edit in the previous post, I think it's because I am a cynical bastard and always look for the raincloud in the silver lining. I know Rica is Julia Robert's to Bhelen's Richard Gere, and I do not deny her happy ending, but Noble Hunter's "success" in even becoming an official courtesan is slim anyway and I really doubt most of them fall for their nobles.

Ah well, at least I have Lina to write my THIS IS WHAT BEING A SEX WORKER IS LIKE OKAY thoughts on, even if she is an original character.

#2683
Herr Uhl

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Costin_Razvan wrote...

Maybe he is, I dunno. I just was slightly offended that you thought Bhelen did not love Rica when he clearly does, considering all the things he has done for when he didn't have to :P

It is worth considering that while Bhelen does what he does and get's king he also makes a lot of changes for the betterment of his people, for no gain of his own ( unless you can count assassination attempts a gain ).

Sure he only considers himself the ONLY capable ruler of Orzammar, but let's face it: Trian was a moron, the DN himself would have either killed Bhelen eventually or was too weak to rule in the first place anyway. I am not going to talk about Harrowmont.


She makes him a mini-me of himself. Of course he likes her.

#2684
soignee

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also can I just say how happy I am to be talking about the duster side of dwarfies, there's only so much Aeducanning I can process without being all I DON'T CARE BOLLOCKS TO YOU NOBLE CASTE BASTARDS IMMA JUST GONNA SHANK SOME BASTARDS AND STEAL THEIR LYRIUM NUGGETS OKAY

Modifié par soignee, 05 mai 2010 - 02:39 .


#2685
Costin_Razvan

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Ahm...I am writing my own FanFiction. Of course with my DN shoving the DC right back to the her duster status when they first meet.



You might have fought your entire life guardsmen and the like, but my DN has been trained to fight hordes of Darkspawn.

#2686
soignee

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trained to be a fat lazy deshyr more like, pffffft

#2687
KnightofPhoenix

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I too think Bhelen loves Rica. For his cold pragmatism, being close to Rica is not the pragmatic thing to do and can in fact be seen as somewhat irrational. Not only does he earn the scorn of the Assembly and other castes (while he could have married a noble and earn the loyalty of an entire house), but he risks giving birth to a casteless daughter. And from what we have seen, the casteless are not particularily moved by this. Doing "bedded diversions" with a noble hunter is one thing. Actually being with her, buying her gifts, supporting her mother...etc is another thing.

It really doesn't make sense for him to be with Rica. Hence why I think he loves her.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 05 mai 2010 - 02:44 .


#2688
Costin_Razvan

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soignee wrote...

trained to be a fat lazy deshyr more like, pffffft


I have you to thank for the image of a DC. A rogue berserker who charges blindly into a fight. Not compared to my cold calculated DN, who would simply sidestep your charge, trip you and then use your own weapons to slit your throat.

#2689
Herr Uhl

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Costin_Razvan wrote...

soignee wrote...

trained to be a fat lazy deshyr more like, pffffft


I have you to thank for the image of a DC. A rogue berserker who charges blindly into a fight. Not compared to my cold calculated DN, who would simply sidestep your charge, trip you and then use your own weapons to slit your throat.


I want this yo dwarf battle to be nice and clean.

#2690
Costin_Razvan

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Ahm...a Duster who makes her living by stealing and killing people and Dwarf Noble who murdered his own brother with glee.



Seriously, if you are expecting a clean fight you have SERIOUSLY come to the wrong thread.

#2691
soignee

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Sorry, Missa would so win. She really, really would. STREETS OF DUST TOWN TAUGHT HER, YO.

*hustles*

#2692
Herr Uhl

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Costin_Razvan wrote...

Ahm...a Duster who makes her living by stealing and killing people and Dwarf Noble who murdered his own brother with glee.


She steals the people, and then kills them. We're dealing with a monster here.

And oooh, I commit fratricide, thus I'm awesome.

#2693
soignee

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ALSO Costa you better link your fanfic so we can all read ittttt!

#2694
Costin_Razvan

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Once the first chapter is done :P

#2695
Sarah1281

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Just another idea to consider -- wasn't Calian having an affair with the Empress of Orlais? She was a ruler in her own right and was able to keep him around her finger. Being Alistair's mistress doesn't mean you're a kitchen servant waiting to be summoned to his private quarters. It just means you've got the attention of the most powerful man in Ferelden.

I find that theory highly unlikely. The biggest 'proof' of it is Loghain (hardly rational on the subject or Orlais as it is and already someone was going to try to remove Anora from power) looked at the casual note from Celene about a permanent alliance and the note from Eamon reminding Cailan that Anora still had no children and skydived to conclusions. Orlais and Ferelden are really too far away to be able to meet up in secret for an affair and if there were enough visiting of each others' land then people wouldn't have been so surprised they were brokering an alliance. And the 'familiar' note reads like a note between friends without all the courtly formalities that befits their station, not even remotely a lover thing.

And furthermore, did you ever look down on Gorim because he could never be accepted as your mate, much less as a husband? No. If Gorim is good enough for you as a lover, why not have the same concept apply towards being Alistair's mistress? I don't think Anora is ever going to have a child and Alistair isn't likely to have one either. I don't think either of them will have a heir. So I would assume you'd still have Alistair all to yourself with him as sole king.

I admit their are parallels but also some fundamental differences. She was hardly involved with anyone else or Queen so it was more like she had a secret boyfriend than a male mistress. Alistair was going to need to get married once he took the throne, whether to Anora or to someone else, because he needed to try for an heir. If the DN hadn't been exiled and had been chosen as Queen after Endrin died that relationship also would have had to end for similar reasons. I'd compare dating Gorim to be more like dating Alistair pre-Landsmeet, which is perfectly fine if both partners understand it's only going to end when Alistair becomes King (which Alistair insists on being in denial about and my DN is not willing to go through again so soon after the last doomed relationship). It's only demeaning once you become the other woman and he gets a legitimate wife. If it was an open secret and everyone knew that she was his mistress that would only make it worse. She was born a princess and is now a Paragon and she's supposed to settle for freaking concubine? As if. The very idea is insulting.

Indeed. But that's leaving dwarf society, and we wouldn't want that, would we?

I'm actually curious as to why more casteless don't leave. I mean, anyone from servants up, sure, but they're actually a part of dwarven society. Is it just fear and misinformation about the Surface? That's what Zerlinda said about why she was planning on raising her baby in Dust Town instead of on the Surface.

Technically, even males can be noble hunters and if they produce a daughter with a noble woman, he and the daughter should be elevated. Not suire that exists though.

I highly doubt it would and not for sexist reasons, either, but classist. If a man gets a noble-hunter pregnant and she has a daughter she just wasted a year of her life and has another casteless child to look after but it's really not much of an inconvenience to the noble. Sure he might have been taking care of the potential mother of his son, but he's not obligated for his daughter and can either try again or ditch her. If a noblewoman has a casteless son then not only did SHE just waste a year of HER life but her child is (from her perspective) worthless and can't be a part of her House. And do we really want to know what would happen to the son? Would the father be willing to take him in? And disregarding that, males are highly unneccesary for the role. Casteless women = more noble babies. Casteless males...not so much. If a noblewoman decides to have children, she can simply marry a nobleman and assure that all of her children will be a part of her House.
 

It is worth considering that while Bhelen does what he does and get's king he also makes a lot of changes for the betterment of his people, for no gain of his own ( unless you can count assassination attempts a gain ).

It's not for personal gain? Not only does dissolving the Assembly give him more power but his reforms and strengthening of the dwarves as a whole benefit their leader greatly. Why would he want to rule over one little city when he can expand to the Deep Trenches or beyond? People who go out and make their nation bigger often do so for their own glory or power. And if the nobles or warriors attempt a coup, he now has his own personal fighting force that know he is their only hope as the coup is largely about them and 'putting them back in their place.' Bhelen is good for the dwarves, I know, but it's hardly selfless.

#2696
WarChicken78

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OEEEEE! A Dwarven appreciation thread.
I Love my DC girl!

Magic Petra telling a story...
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Wake up Shale!
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Without words...
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Poor King.
Posted Image

Modifié par WarChicken78, 05 mai 2010 - 05:21 .


#2697
soignee

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Sarah1281 wrote...


Indeed. But that's leaving dwarf society, and we wouldn't want that, would we?

I'm actually curious as to why more casteless don't leave. I mean, anyone from servants up, sure, but they're actually a part of dwarven society. Is it just fear and misinformation about the Surface? That's what Zerlinda said about why she was planning on raising her baby in Dust Town instead of on the Surface.


Because sometimes it's hard for people to fight the boot stuck at their throat. The English class system even 100 years ago is similar. You really are born knowing your place.

#2698
soignee

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annnnnnnnnd welcome Warchicken78! My Brosca thinks Alistair is a lovable idiot worthy only of arm punches and hair ruffles, but I appreciate a good screenshot. I'll admit, I tilted my head.

#2699
Sarah1281

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soignee wrote...

annnnnnnnnd welcome Warchicken78! My Brosca thinks Alistair is a lovable idiot worthy only of arm punches and hair ruffles, but I appreciate a good screenshot. I'll admit, I tilted my head.

Don't forget good for removing overly paranoid Orlesian-hating heroes from power. Posted Image

And at least he's sort of learning somethig about politics? I just hope Orzammar won't traumatize him enough to have him refuse to have anything to do with the throne. Although that would be kind of amusing...

#2700
Cuddlezarro

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soignee wrote...

annnnnnnnnd welcome Warchicken78! My Brosca thinks Alistair is a lovable idiot worthy only of arm punches and hair ruffles, but I appreciate a good screenshot. I'll admit, I tilted my head.


and my brosca thinks alistair is a complete moron and cant stand the whiny idiot


Don't forget good for removing overly paranoid Orlesian-hating heroes
from power. ../../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png


for you maybe

*likesloghainalotmorethanalistair*

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 05 mai 2010 - 05:35 .