11146 réponses à ce sujet

[Gilsa]

BTW, I'm frustrated with not understanding the toolset as much as I could (need to read more tutorials, really) because there are all these nifty dwarf icons that I want to find in the original size and share them for use. Know that dwarf icon you get at the character creator when you select gender/race? I keep wanting to see if it's available as a bigger size somewhere in the game files because that is the perfect avatar. Why aren't they letting us use those avatars for the forums anyway?

[tmp7704]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And what's interesting about the Dwarves is that they never seemed to have tried to invade the surface, despite potentially being able to (their resistance to magic probably would have the Magister lords ****** in their pants).
This could be attributed to their fear of the surface, but as we have seen in Origins, that fear is mostly a small (and cute) thing. If pressed, the Dwarves would go and fight on the surface with no problems.

I think it's simply due to stigma attached to being far from the Stone. It's not as much small, cute fear but rather very different mindset that makes them prefer living under surface. Just like humans could in theory move underground and live there too, but they prefer to live on the surface so it never really occurs to them.

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Dwarven architecture is very impressive and some ways surpasses that of even the Tevinter Imperium (most of which was also built by the Dwarfs, Ostagar being an example).

What always gets to me is in Awakening when you seal off the basement. Voldrik tells you that the door you use to cut off access to the Deep Roads was designed by ancient dwarves when the darkspawn first invaded but they hadn't had time to finish it. If they had...

I think that they did finish it in certain places. Thus the darkspawn made their own tunnels.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Dwarven architecture is very impressive and some ways surpasses that of even the Tevinter Imperium (most of which was also built by the Dwarfs, Ostagar being an example).

What always gets to me is in Awakening when you seal off the basement. Voldrik tells you that the door you use to cut off access to the Deep Roads was designed by ancient dwarves when the darkspawn first invaded but they hadn't had time to finish it. If they had...

I know. Poor sods.

I really want to have more info, so I can compare the Tevinter Imperium with the Dwarven Empire, at their zenith. 
From what we know:
- The Tevinter Imperium was a Magocracy (we don't know who and how were the heads of State, do we? I believe it was run by some sort of council of Magister Lords. In which case, the Imperium was a Magocratic Aristocracy), while the Dwarven Empire was a caste based constitutional / limited elective Monarchy. 
- The Imperium was primarily based on magic. The Dwarven Empire, on technology. 
- The Tevinters worshipped 7 Gods. The Dwarves had and still have some sort of Ancestor worship.  
- The Imperium practised slavery, on elves mostly. I am not sure slavery existed with the Dwarves, but the casteless were and still are (unless Bhelen comes in) devoid of rights and of even recognition of personhood (they are nobodies).

And neither seemed interested in fighting or invading the other. And I am sure they had some trading relations, if only for the Magisters to acquire Lyrium. And they fought together against the First Blight. 

Really interesting. I had hoped we can search for more history codexes in the Shaperate, as any *objective* history and facts about the Tevinter Imperium would probably be found there, and not from Chantry scholars.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 mai 2010 - 09:46 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Gilsa wrote...

This is in the room where you retrieve the shield of Aeducan in the origins:



I imagine King Endrin gets buried in one of these. It's pretty fancy.

And for a Dwarven corpse, it is pretty big.

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


I really want to have more info, so I can compare the Tevinter Imperium with the Dwarven Empire, at their zenith. 
From what we know:
- The Tevinter Imperium was a Magocracy (we don't know who and how were the heads of State, do we? I believe it was run by some sort of council of Magister Lords. In which case, the Imperium was a Magocratic Aristocracy), while the Dwarven Empire was a caste based constitutional / limited elective Monarchy. 
- The Imperium was primarily based on magic. The Dwarven Empire, on technology. 
- The Tevinters worshipped 7 Gods. The Dwarves had and still have some sort of Ancestor worship.  
- The Imperium practised slavery, on elves mostly. I am not sure slavery existed with the Dwarves, but the casteless were and still are (unless Bhelen comes in) devoid of rights and of even recognition of personhood (they are nobodies).

And neither seemed interested in fighting or invading the other. and I am sure they had some trading relations, if only for the Magisters to acquire Lyrium. And they fought together against the First Blight. 

Really interesting. I had hoped we can search for more history codexes in the Shaperate, as any *objective* history and facts of the Tevinter Imperium would probably be found there, and not from Chantry scholars.

The caste system pretty much equals slavery. Tevinter was ruled by seven Achrons IIRC.

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

This is in the room where you retrieve the shield of Aeducan in the origins:



I imagine King Endrin gets buried in one of these. It's pretty fancy.

And for a Dwarven corpse, it is pretty big.

He brought his 5 favorite concubines with him.

[Costin_Razvan]

Isn't dwarven architecture based on the Mayan one or something?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...
The caste system pretty much equals slavery. Tevinter was ruled by seven Achrons IIRC.

Yea but are the castless actually owned by someone? A slave has to be the property of an individual or State in order to be so (technically). The Dwarves seem to disdain the casteless so much that they basically consider them to be non-existant.

And yes Archons, I forgot the name of the title.
I really want to know about the Tevinter Imperium. I am almost sure it is not as bad as the Chantry would have us believe.

[Herr Uhl]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Isn't dwarven architecture based on the Mayan one or something?

I don't know. You might be thinking of Qunari architecture.

[Gilsa]

While I was taking screenshots in that room, I hit a really sweet spot for a new wallpaper for my desktop. I very much like this image because it seems to say, "May the Ancestors watch over you." Took forever to set it up (had to stand on a casket to get that angle, lol), but it was worth it.

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
The caste system pretty much equals slavery. Tevinter was ruled by seven Achrons IIRC.

Yea but are the castless actually owned by someone? A slave has to be the property of an individual or State in order to be so (technically). The Dwarves seem to disdain the casteless so much that they basically consider them to be non-existant.

The casteless are not the slaves. The servants are, casteless are not worthy of that honor.

[Costin_Razvan]

The Tevinter Imperium is far better then the Chantry ruled Orlais I believe. Sure they practice slavery, but they allow mages to not be treated like dogs, as long as they don't practice blood magic, and they also don't have the chevaliers.

'Tis most curios how Orlais saved Tevinter from the Qunari though. Anyway time for some dwarven badassery, and yes that is Oghren.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 06 mai 2010 - 09:55 .

[Herr Uhl]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

'Tis most curios how Orlais saved Tevinter from the Qunari though.

Humans see the Qunari as a greater threat than darkspawn nowadays. If the Qunari would have held the land for any greater amount of time, reconversion would have been tricky business.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Gilsa wrote...

While I was taking screenshots in that room, I hit a really sweet spot for a new wallpaper for my desktop. I very much like this image because it seems to say, "May the Ancestors watch over you." Took forever to set it up (had to stand on a casket to get that angle, lol), but it was worth it.

Love the image!
And it's not only "May the Ancestors watch over you". It's "May YOUR Ancestor (Paragon Aeducan) watch over you" (I am assuming the statue is Aeducan's).
I actually felt quite emotional in that tomb.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 mai 2010 - 09:57 .

[Nonvita]

The casteless are not slaves because slaves are actually cared after to some extent. Slaves are a long-term investment whose value depends on remaining in good enough condition to continue to work.

The casteless are used only for short-term purposes, and they are no investment because they cost no money to buy. They are disposable when they complete their task, and are not missed if they should be injured/killed before completing their task. Only casteless like Rica, in whom actual time and investment have been devoted, are given any consideration. I suppose you could consider her and those like her as indentured servants, who have a "contract" to fulfill.


Edit: Gilsa that's a gorgeous image! Your dwarf looks lovely there, too.

Modifié par Nonvita, 06 mai 2010 - 09:59 .

[Gilsa]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Love the image!
And it's not only "May the Ancestors watch over you". It's "May YOUR Ancestor (Paragon Aeducan) watch over you" (I am assuming the statue is Aeducan's).
I actually felt quite emotional in that tomb.

Yeah, EXACTLY. And when that scout is all, "Eh, it's just a shield," I wanted to bish slap him. He definitely got murder-knifed later on.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
The caste system pretty much equals slavery. Tevinter was ruled by seven Achrons IIRC.

Yea but are the castless actually owned by someone? A slave has to be the property of an individual or State in order to be so (technically). The Dwarves seem to disdain the casteless so much that they basically consider them to be non-existant.

The casteless are not the slaves. The servants are, casteless are not worthy of that honor.

Yea probably, though that is assuming that the servants are not compensated for their services.

Still, even if they are legally owned by a noble House, this form of slavery is not at the same scale of the Imperium, whose slavery was formulated on racial lines and probably had subjugated a lot more people.

[Gilsa]

I think they are actually paid for their services and are not technically slaves.

Unna: "Watch yourself! The shaper doesn't need your footprints all over his clean clothes." (harried, bossy)
PC: "What are you doing?"
Unna: "I happen to be doing the personal washing of the third assistant to the shaper of memories! He's from House Harrowmont, you know." (proud)
Unna: "It took my mother five years of sewing dresses for the head maid to get me noticed." (proud)
Unna: "Mother tells me they never considered a single other candidate when the position opened for under washer." (proud)
PC: "If you're just a servant, aren't you casteless, too?"
Unna: "I am not casteless! I am an honorable member of the Servant Caste." (indignant, insulted)
Unna: "I serve my betters, as is my place, decided by the ancestors who granted my mother my birth. I am not a criminal!" (proud)
PC: "I'm not a criminal, either. Exactly."
Unna: "You were once." (matter of fact)
Unna: "Whatever horrid deviants you're descended from were written out of the histories and deemed unworthy to join the ancestors." (condescending, rude)
Unna: "Obviously, they bred anyway, but their children can't possibly deserve the same protections as those who were legitimately born." (condescending, a bit disgusted)
PC: "Sorry. I'll let you get back to your washing."
Unna: "As if I'd stop for you." (snooty)

[Sarah1281]

Gilsa wrote...

I think they are actually paid for their services and are not technically slaves.

Unna: "Watch yourself! The shaper doesn't need your footprints all over his clean clothes." (harried, bossy)
PC: "What are you doing?"
Unna: "I happen to be doing the personal washing of the third assistant to the shaper of memories! He's from House Harrowmont, you know." (proud)
Unna: "It took my mother five years of sewing dresses for the head maid to get me noticed." (proud)
Unna: "Mother tells me they never considered a single other candidate when the position opened for under washer." (proud)
PC: "If you're just a servant, aren't you casteless, too?"
Unna: "I am not casteless! I am an honorable member of the Servant Caste." (indignant, insulted)
Unna: "I serve my betters, as is my place, decided by the ancestors who granted my mother my birth. I am not a criminal!" (proud)
PC: "I'm not a criminal, either. Exactly."
Unna: "You were once." (matter of fact)
Unna: "Whatever horrid deviants you're descended from were written out of the histories and deemed unworthy to join the ancestors." (condescending, rude)
Unna: "Obviously, they bred anyway, but their children can't possibly deserve the same protections as those who were legitimately born." (condescending, a bit disgusted)
PC: "Sorry. I'll let you get back to your washing."
Unna: "As if I'd stop for you." (snooty)

When does this happen? Is it a dwarf-only thing (DN or DC?) or all origins?

And I totally agree on the scout. He was so obviously expecting you not to be in a position to do anything to him...why Bhelen couldn't have found a less obvious warrior to do his bidding is beyond me. He might have been stuck with Ivo, but he was inifinitely less 'I am just waiting for a chance to screw you over.'

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

I think they are actually paid for their services and are not technically slaves.

Unna: "Watch yourself! The shaper doesn't need your footprints all over his clean clothes." (harried, bossy)
PC: "What are you doing?"
Unna: "I happen to be doing the personal washing of the third assistant to the shaper of memories! He's from House Harrowmont, you know." (proud)
Unna: "It took my mother five years of sewing dresses for the head maid to get me noticed." (proud)
Unna: "Mother tells me they never considered a single other candidate when the position opened for under washer." (proud)
PC: "If you're just a servant, aren't you casteless, too?"
Unna: "I am not casteless! I am an honorable member of the Servant Caste." (indignant, insulted)
Unna: "I serve my betters, as is my place, decided by the ancestors who granted my mother my birth. I am not a criminal!" (proud)
PC: "I'm not a criminal, either. Exactly."
Unna: "You were once." (matter of fact)
Unna: "Whatever horrid deviants you're descended from were written out of the histories and deemed unworthy to join the ancestors." (condescending, rude)
Unna: "Obviously, they bred anyway, but their children can't possibly deserve the same protections as those who were legitimately born." (condescending, a bit disgusted)
PC: "Sorry. I'll let you get back to your washing."
Unna: "As if I'd stop for you." (snooty)

When does this happen? Is it a dwarf-only thing (DN or DC?) or all origins?

DC during the origin I think. She is to the right of tapsters.

[tmp7704]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

'Tis most curios how Orlais saved Tevinter from the Qunari though.

They didn't. The Imperial Chantry and Chantry of Orlais organized their separate Exalted Marches, with intentions to free different lands. While there's truce signed with Qunari by Orlais and other countries which took part in its Marches, the Tevinter is still at war and was left to fend for themselves, in hope this would bring end to the Imperial Chantry which is viewed as pure heresy by Orlais (since it's openly ran by mages and follows different version of the Chant)

[Gilsa]

It happens in the dwarf commoner origin when you leave Dust Town and enter the area where you meet Leske's friend, some guy that wants to buy your teeth, and she's there washing clothes nearby.

Unna
Description: Puffed-up dwarf servant, who looks down at the Dwarf Commoner PC as being far below her importance.
Purpose: To show the Dwarf Commoner that his status is far below the legitimate Servant Caste.
Speech patterns: Shrill, full of herself.

Modifié par Gilsa, 06 mai 2010 - 10:19 .

[Sarah1281]

Gilsa wrote...

It happens in the dwarf commoner origin when you leave Dust Town and enter the area where you meet Leske's friend, some guy wants to buy your teeth, and she's there washing clothes nearby.

Unna
Description: Puffed-up dwarf servant, who looks down at the Dwarf Commoner PC as being far below her importance.
Purpose: To show the Dwarf Commoner that his status is far below the legitimate Servant Caste.
Speech patterns: Shrill, full of herself.

 That explains it. I've only been able to make it through the DC origin once because it made me want to kill the world...honestly, it took me twenty minutes to get through the conversation with Beraht as I couldn't find a decent way to respond to him. Since I  Orzammar so much it was especially difficult to get through. I mean, really. No one treats you even remotely as badly as all of the casteless get treated all of the time when you return as an alleged kinslaying exile...

And then Rica's 'happy ending' with Bhelen when she barely ever sees her child and thinks this is the greatest thing ever...that was really depressing.

[Gilsa]

How do you get that she barely sees her child? I thought she just couldn't take him out of the nursery.