11146 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

The kind of bastard who does not doubt that the Alienage would go in flames when Urien returns to Denerim, should you kill him. Obviously that does happen no matter what, thanks to Howe, but you don't know that at that point in the game.

It's a damned if you, damned if you don't decision.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 10 mai 2010 - 02:44 .

[Cypher0020]

Ok I never kill Trian in my DN run.... so if he pops up at the gauntlet.... he just asks you to remember him??



Who pops up for the HN's origin? Bryce??



I know that Shianni for my CEF gave me the chills...

[Sarah1281]

Radahldo wrote...

I think everything makes much more sense if you kill him. Get to hear his cool speech; that funny insult Bhelen tells you, and some other stuff.

I wish he would still appear if you don't fully commit, but make it clear to Bhelen that you will kill Trian if he moves against you.

I think the reason he doesn't is because Bhelen knows he can get Trian to attack you (it actually surprised me that his first plan was to simply arrest you and let the Assembly deal with it but then I guess he's not as big a bastard as Bheln even if he is ruder and more conescending) but he may not be too certain of you, especially if you chose the dialogue options to set your character as understanding about him (either by agreeing to immediately head to the feast or telling Gorim that he means well). If you say you won't kill him no matter what then there's a chance that the fight could still happen and one of you dies but even with the scout it's too much of a risk. This option is really the one for those that don't care about politics in the first place or are hopelessly naive.

If you say that you'll act if Trian does then since Trian was clearly convinced by Bhelen feeding his paranoia that you want to kill him, there's also too much risk you'd be able to talk him down and Bhelen can't afford risks at this point. I know that if Trian had appeared after I said that and made it clear he thought he was acting in self-defense and I wasn't limited by game mechanics, I would have temporarily surrendered to avoid the potential of getting caught committing fratricide at the rendezvous point (and if you refuse to admit to planning anything there really wouldn't be much of a case against you) and simply killed the rabble-rousing scout. This is probably the smartes approach to take as Bhelen really lays it on pretty thick and killing the named heir because someone who spends all their time with him says he's out to kill you? And he's honestly concerned Trian would see him as a threat? Please.

If, however, you declare that Trian's going to die then Bhelen can be pretty sure that you're actually going to do it. After all, it wasn't that hard to convince you so you either trust him far too much or you wanted to kill Trian anyway and this is your chance. There's very little to fear that you'll try to find a peaceful resolution and it really is better and simpler if Bhelen can simply tattle rather than take the risk of hiring others to do it. Yes, if the people who killed Trian were the same mercenaries who had his signet ring then you kill them yourself, but that's another risk.

I actually prefer the non-murder option because I just can't bring myself to believe Bheln's word since he gives you a really pathetic excuse for telling you this and it's clear he wants you to kill Trian. I figured he was plotting something and I really should look into it after the expedition...whoops, he moved too fast. Also, my reluctance to commit fratricide really came back to haunt me (killing Trian might not have resulted in me getting caught and killing Bhelen certainly would have made my life simpler) but if I side with Harrowmont then at least I can say I learned my lesson about such sentimentality...

[Sarah1281]

Cypher0020 wrote...

Ok I never kill Trian in my DN run.... so if he pops up at the gauntlet.... he just asks you to remember him??

Who pops up for the HN's origin? Bryce??

I know that Shianni for my CEF gave me the chills...

Bryce is for the human origin, Jowan for Mage, Talmen for Dalish elf, and Leske for Dwarf commoner.

Yeah, that's basically it as far as Trian goes. You get the opportunity to apologize even if you did nothing wrong, which seems more appropriate if you actually kill him. He asks you to remember his regardless but says he shouldn't be so hard on you (about time) since Bhelen made fools of you both instead of asking you if you're proud of allowing yourself to become Bhelen's lackey.

[Cypher0020]

Could someone explain how the royal family works again? If the Aeducans are the royal family...how come Trian isn't just named king automatically??

[KnightofPhoenix]

More Dwarven art!

[Sarah1281]

Cypher0020 wrote...

Could someone explain how the royal family works again? If the Aeducans are the royal family...how come Trian isn't just named king automatically??

Well, as Harrowmont puts it: It is the Assembly that chooses a King and a King who nominates his successor. None of it is carried in the blood.

Basically, the Assembly has to confirm the King's choice after the old King dies, sort of like at the Landsmeet how Cailan had to be confirmed and then Alistair and/or Anora. Trian is the oldest so Endrin named him the heir a long time ago but the DN is the more popular and talented one so everyone thinks she'll be Queen instead. If Endrin doesn't change his mind about his heir (which he does when his only choice is Bhelen and picks Harrowmont but it was so last-minute there were no other witnesses and Bhelen isn't willing to step aside hence the problems) then it's unusual but the Assembly does sometimes ignore the King's choice. If Endrin were an unpopular ruler, which he wasn't, they might choose someone else or if the named heir was unpopular and it was especially likely to happen if the named heir had a more likeable younger sibling (which explains why he hates you so much).

[KnightofPhoenix]

Cypher0020 wrote...

Could someone explain how the royal family works again? If the Aeducans are the royal family...how come Trian isn't just named king automatically??

Officially,it's an elective monarchy. It's the Assembly that elects its king. So while a certain norm developped, that of keeping the throne in one family (the Aeducans), technically the heir selected by the king still has to be approved by the Assembly.

The reason Trian was worried is because the DN is more popular than him in the Assembly, which might vote for the DN instead of him as king (as it turns out, both were fooled and half the Assembly favored Bhelen).

Edit: ninjaed.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 10 mai 2010 - 03:22 .

[Sarah1281]

The reason Trian was worried that the DN is more popular than him in the Assembly, which might vote for the DN instead of him as king (as it turns out, both were fooled and half the Assembly favored Bhelen).

I'm not sure that they did favor Bhelen. He managed to bribe enough people so that he could quickly force the DN into exile but if he were that sure of his support why bother killing Trian and exiling the DN at all? And why no trial? It looks a lot more suspicious when he immediately moves for an exile without even a sham trial and if he had enough support he could surely manage that and still get her convicted. Sure people are willing to stand with him since he seems to promise all of them advisory positions - like he listens to advisors - but that doesn't mean that with his siblings still in the picture he'd be guarenteed the throne.



Besides, Bhelen does have a lot of trouble taking the throne even though there's no proof Endrin changed his mind and people feel that House Harrowmont, never important until Pyral's friendship with Endrin, was overstepping itself. The longer Harrowmont managed to keep Bhelen off of the throne the more support he got from jealous nobles who decided that he did have a chance of taking House Aeducan off of the throne but what about after Endrin first died and Harrowmont first stood to oppose him? If Bhelen's support was as strong as all that then why did the debate carry on for weeks until there support was evenly matched?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...
If Bhelen's support was as strong as all that then why did the debate carry on for weeks until there support was evenly matched?

Because the other half was against him.

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
If Bhelen's support was as strong as all that then why did the debate carry on for weeks until there support was evenly matched?

Because the other half was against him.

 It just doesn't seem as if his support was stronger than the DN's and even Trian's if literally every single person he wasn't outright bribing (and we know he had been bribing half of the Assembly in order to get the DN thrown out so quickly and they'd profit more from the alliance if Bhelen were King) were on Harrowmont's side.

[soignee]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Always liked this image. Really shows the privilege of the DN origin, frankly.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
If Bhelen's support was as strong as all that then why did the debate carry on for weeks until there support was evenly matched?

Because the other half was against him.

 It just doesn't seem as if his support was stronger than the DN's and even Trian's if literally every single person he wasn't outright bribing (and we know he had been bribing half of the Assembly in order to get the DN thrown out so quickly and they'd profit more from the alliance if Bhelen were King) were on Harrowmont's side.

Bribery is part of support.
We know Harrowmont bribed House Helmi and that other house (Bhelen made it look like he bribed them with the same things. But doesn't change the fact bribery was at work). 
Bribery apparently is very common.
So that's a non-issue, I am pretty sure Endrin would have bribed many of them to approve of his selected heir. 

If Bhelen managed to bribe, and the DN and Trian didn't think of it, then Bhelen was the smarter one.

[soignee]

you say bribery, some say gifts...

lolbacktopainting

Also:  I've worked out I'm only painting to put off writing my latest chapter, which has all of 1000ish words to it. LOLZ.

Modifié par soignee, 10 mai 2010 - 04:17 .

[Sarah1281]

If Bhelen managed to bribe, and the DN and Trian didn't think of it, then Bhelen was the smarter one.

Well, that's a given. Bhelen's support just seemed like, if he didn't personally bribe them, they did not want him on the throne.

Also: I've worked out I'm only painting to put off writing my latest chapter, which has all of 1000ish words to it. LOLZ.

At least you're on the most interesting part?

[KnightofPhoenix]

soignee wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Always liked this image. Really shows the privilege of the DN origin, frankly.

I like the sentence that defines the Dwarf Noble:
"What I have seen and done to achieve my position defies belief. What I am capable of and will be party to in order to retain it would chill your soul."
 
It's like my Dain Aeducan talking.

[Sarah1281]

Nice quote. Where's it from?

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Nice quote. Where's it from?

The DN teaser, you can find it here.

Edit: It was on the old one at least, :sadface:

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 10 mai 2010 - 04:25 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Nice quote. Where's it from?

[Sarah1281]

That was epic. Now I want to go play through the Origin again...

[Gilsa]

I'm playing the castless origin again (woo woo!) and got reminded of things I had forgotten. For example, being reminded that the assembly declared back in Darbir's reign that it insults the ancestors for casteless to perform work that the recognized lineages can do. Now I'm wondering how far back Darbir was and if he was an Aeducan.

[Cypher0020]

ooooo I love all the new fanart... and I love the dn concept art... so regal and dashing -swoon- so hafta restart my origin...



how come all dwarves are burly with big huge axes and shields? A dwarf can be a rogue/archer... or my FDN may dual wielder....



Oh yeah.... should I play sword/board a DW Rogue or a DW Warrior?? Think we may have enough S&B's... Alistair...Sten..Oghren... I guess even Dog

[Sarah1281]

Gilsa wrote...

I'm playing the castless origin again (woo woo!) and got reminded of things I had forgotten. For example, being reminded that the assembly declared back in Darbir's reign that it insults the ancestors for casteless to perform work that the recognized lineages can do. Now I'm wondering how far back Darbir was and if he was an Aeducan.

Oh, I hope not. That was really stabbing themselves in the foot and I'd like to think that the Aeducans had more sense than that...maybe he was a Dace. Their version of practicality seems to be "If it's good for House Dace then I don't care" and this would fit in well with that.

[Sarah1281]

A dwarf can be a rogue/archer... or my FDN may dual wielder....

My dwarves are always rogues for the lock-picking and traps but always somehow end up tanks anyway...and they could never be archers as their mentality is 'if there's no chance of gushing blood, it's not real fighting'. Come to think of it, do we ever run into any dwaven archers? Ever? It just doesn't seem glorious enough for the warriors and the nobles and the casteless would have to find a way to afford all those arrows...

[BigBad]

My dwarves are always warriors because rogues are just too squishy.



I actually think a dwarven crossbow archer could be a pretty neat concept.