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[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

From the wiki...
The Shaperate is the governing organization of the Shapers. Shapers are the historians, scholars, genealogists, and philosophers of the dwarves. They are supposed to be apolitical, devoted solely to their work maintaining the Memories, but this is, of course, impossible.

An example of a Shaper would be a Shaper of Memory: a sage who keeps records of dwarven history and genealogy. Their task is important—almost sacred.

I'm not sure they'd trust any non-noble with this task. I mean, only warriors and nobles are even allowed to go get themselves killed fighting darkspawn. Not to mention it's located in the Diamond Quarter.

Being "a-political" does suggest they are not longer bound to Houses or even caste, but that would make them casteless which is unlikely.

I would go for Nobles, or specifically lesser nobles who don't have seats in the Assembly.

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

From the wiki...
The Shaperate is the governing organization of the Shapers. Shapers are the historians, scholars, genealogists, and philosophers of the dwarves. They are supposed to be apolitical, devoted solely to their work maintaining the Memories, but this is, of course, impossible.

An example of a Shaper would be a Shaper of Memory: a sage who keeps records of dwarven history and genealogy. Their task is important—almost sacred.

I'm not sure they'd trust any non-noble with this task. I mean, only warriors and nobles are even allowed to go get themselves killed fighting darkspawn. Not to mention it's located in the Diamond Quarter.

Being "a-political" does suggest they are not longer bound to Houses or even caste, but that would make them casteless which is unlikely.

I would go for Nobles, or specifically lesser nobles who don't have seats in the Assembly.

Why would they be nobles? Couldn't they have their own caste, as all other professions? And since when is having a caste political?

I thought that it was obvious that they were chosen for what they do the same way as 99% of all the other dwarves in Orzammar.

[Kryyptehk]

Herr Uhl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

From the wiki...
The Shaperate is the governing organization of the Shapers. Shapers are the historians, scholars, genealogists, and philosophers of the dwarves. They are supposed to be apolitical, devoted solely to their work maintaining the Memories, but this is, of course, impossible.

An example of a Shaper would be a Shaper of Memory: a sage who keeps records of dwarven history and genealogy. Their task is important—almost sacred.

I'm not sure they'd trust any non-noble with this task. I mean, only warriors and nobles are even allowed to go get themselves killed fighting darkspawn. Not to mention it's located in the Diamond Quarter.

Being "a-political" does suggest they are not longer bound to Houses or even caste, but that would make them casteless which is unlikely.

I would go for Nobles, or specifically lesser nobles who don't have seats in the Assembly.

Why would they be nobles? Couldn't they have their own caste, as all other professions? And since when is having a caste political?

I thought that it was obvious that they were chosen for what they do the same way as 99% of all the other dwarves in Orzammar.

This. Orzammar's caste system doesn't have to mesh exactly with our real world caste system. I'm willing to bet Shapers have their own caste.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...
Why would they be nobles? Couldn't they have their own caste, as all other professions? And since when is having a caste political?

No, since there are 7 castes and none of them is specifically for Shapers. The castes are nobles, warriors, artisans, smiths, miner, merchant, servant.
The most likely one is nobles.

And of course having a caste is political, in a system build upon a caste system, as it dictates your place, purpose and profession which is socio-political (in addition to the nobility being more focused on politics than other castes). But I already said it's unlikely they are casteless.

[soignee]

they're above castes. They don't have one, so to speak. It probably makes up members of other castes that leave theirs, maybe nobles and/or the higher casts that have an aptitude for scholarly pursuits.

Modifié par soignee, 21 mai 2010 - 05:01 .

[Sarah1281]

Herr Uhl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

From the wiki...
The Shaperate is the governing organization of the Shapers. Shapers are the historians, scholars, genealogists, and philosophers of the dwarves. They are supposed to be apolitical, devoted solely to their work maintaining the Memories, but this is, of course, impossible.

An example of a Shaper would be a Shaper of Memory: a sage who keeps records of dwarven history and genealogy. Their task is important—almost sacred.

I'm not sure they'd trust any non-noble with this task. I mean, only warriors and nobles are even allowed to go get themselves killed fighting darkspawn. Not to mention it's located in the Diamond Quarter.

Being "a-political" does suggest they are not longer bound to Houses or even caste, but that would make them casteless which is unlikely.

I would go for Nobles, or specifically lesser nobles who don't have seats in the Assembly.

Why would they be nobles? Couldn't they have their own caste, as all other professions? And since when is having a caste political?

I thought that it was obvious that they were chosen for what they do the same way as 99% of all the other dwarves in Orzammar.

If you ask the Shaper about the castes he doesn't mention the Shaper caste, which makes me think there isn't one. He does say that:

 7 Brothers founded the Empire
Bloadlikk (Youngest and Wisest Son) -- was named King
Bloadlikk's children created the Noble Caste
[*]Kiotshett (Eldest) -- Warrior Caste
[*]Shotkyar -- Artisan Caste
[*]Orzatyar -- Smith Caste
[*]Orzammar -- Miner Caste
[*]Koapar (twin of Knakkt) -- Merchant Caste
[*]Knakkt (twin of Koapar) -- Servant Caste

[KnightofPhoenix]

soignee wrote...

they're above castes. They don't have one, so to speak. It probably makes up members of other castes that leave theirs, maybe nobles and/or the higher casts that have an aptitude for scholarly pursuits.

That's what I initially thought, but that would make them casteless. I do not see this "sacred duty" being given to casteless.

[soignee]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

soignee wrote...

they're above castes. They don't have one, so to speak. It probably makes up members of other castes that leave theirs, maybe nobles and/or the higher casts that have an aptitude for scholarly pursuits.

That's what I initially thought, but that would make them casteless. I do not see this "sacred duty" being given to casteless.

ah but what if it's not seen as casteless? It might not fit in with caste system and be above the law, so to speak, but they are definately not dusters, and it's recognised as such.

I rather like the double standards of it, frankly... Dusters= casteless, Shapers= casteless, but both as different as the other in terms of supposed "worth" and "status."

Modifié par soignee, 21 mai 2010 - 05:07 .

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

soignee wrote...

they're above castes. They don't have one, so to speak. It probably makes up members of other castes that leave theirs, maybe nobles and/or the higher casts that have an aptitude for scholarly pursuits.

That's what I initially thought, but that would make them casteless. I do not see this "sacred duty" being given to casteless.

It could sort of be like with GW. If you are a dwarf with a caste who joins the Wardens (and as far as the dwarves are concerned that makes you a warrior or noble as no one else except the casteless know how to fight and casteless thugs are somehow not common knowledge) then you keep your caste in addition to being a GW but if you aren't a noble/warrior then you exist outside of the caste system but are treated with the utmost respect.

[KnightofPhoenix]

It's too big a double standard to go unnoticed and unquestioned. Not havign a caste is considered blashemous. I don't know, I think it's unlikely. The Caste system isn't just a secular law, it's almost a religious law, so I do not see them being above it. I am sticking with them being nobles theory as the most likely.

[BigBad]

In my mind, Shapers are of Noble Cast. We know they don't have their own caste. Probably lesser members of their Houses who will never be deshyrs and who show a talent for scholarship and duty.



I see no evidence that Shapers do not have a caste or are "casteless of a different sort," since that requires several assumptions that simply cannot be supported through what (little) we are shown of the Shapers in the game.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...
It could sort of be like with GW. If you are a dwarf with a caste who joins the Wardens (and as far as the dwarves are concerned that makes you a warrior or noble as no one else except the casteless know how to fight and casteless thugs are somehow not common knowledge) then you keep your caste in addition to being a GW but if you aren't a noble/warrior then you exist outside of the caste system but are treated with the utmost respect.

But you are barely considered a dwarf anymore, as you become a surfacer. Treated with respect yes, but you are no longer part of Orzammar and its system nor are you a "Stony" dwarf, but only a surfacer.

The Shapers on the otherhand occupy an integral part of the system, so the analogy doesn't work.

[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
It could sort of be like with GW. If you are a dwarf with a caste who joins the Wardens (and as far as the dwarves are concerned that makes you a warrior or noble as no one else except the casteless know how to fight and casteless thugs are somehow not common knowledge) then you keep your caste in addition to being a GW but if you aren't a noble/warrior then you exist outside of the caste system but are treated with the utmost respect.

But you are barely considered a dwarf anymore, as you become a surfacer. Treated with respect yes, but you are no longer part of Orzammar and its system nor are you a "Stony" dwarf, but only a surfacer.

The Shapers on the otherhand occupy an integral part of the system, so the analogy doesn't work.

Maybe your idea is kinda right, that most Shapers were once nobles and so are technically of the Noble caste. But they live nearly completely seperate from "true" Nobles. So maybe Nobles are the only ones considered worthy enough to become Shapers?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Kryyptehk wrote...
Maybe your idea is kinda right, that most Shapers were once nobles and so are technically of the Noble caste. But they live nearly completely seperate from "true" Nobles. So maybe Nobles are the only ones considered worthy enough to become Shapers?

That's how I interpret "a-political".

And that's what I think yes, that only nobles are considered worthy and smart enough for this job.
The Noble Caste is supposed to represent wisdom (transmitted by the wisdom of the first Dwarven king), so it makes sense.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 mai 2010 - 05:21 .

[Herr Uhl]

Riiight (about the castes). I keep confusing Qunari and dwarven lore.



Nobles ought to be the only ones learned enough to become shapers. Then leaving their house behind for a higher purpose. I think that they are third in rank after Paragons and Kings.

[soignee]

slight subject change: is a chapter about visiting Dust Town enough? 8000ish words and actual no sight of, you know, plot. Plenty of "character development" though, and gratuitous violence and smut.



*frets about publishing*



I'm really unsure about it, but it sort of feels finsihed but i'm worried everyone will be all WHAT WHERE IS STORY?

[Costin_Razvan]

If it has Bhelen in it, then it's enough. If not then well..

Seriously though, if you want to write a chapter not at all related to the main plot, then do so. I am sure as hell doing that myself.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 21 mai 2010 - 06:06 .

[ejoslin]

soignee wrote...

slight subject change: is a chapter about visiting Dust Town enough? 8000ish words and actual no sight of, you know, plot. Plenty of "character development" though, and gratuitous violence and smut.

*frets about publishing*

I'm really unsure about it, but it sort of feels finsihed but i'm worried everyone will be all WHAT WHERE IS STORY?

Chapter 18, please please pretty please?  Smut, good.  Dust Town, good.  No plot, as long as there's smut and violence, and oh yeh, character development, VERY good!

[Sarah1281]

I don't think anyone can complain if you have it at 8,000 words. Seriously.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 21 mai 2010 - 06:08 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Character development is part of the plot, imo.

[Verly]

hmmm..I've been downloading sexy clothes for my female wardens how come no one has made any for our dwarvan beauties? not fair!

[Costin_Razvan]

I am still looking for a mod that replaces underwear with bikini for Dragon Age Origins. If anyones know of one, do tell!

Interesting thoughts about the Shapers btw. I did consider them to be lesser nobles myself.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 21 mai 2010 - 06:25 .

[soignee]

**** it, published. Next chapter will have plot, I promise!

http://www.fanfictio...t/s/5771314/18/

[ejoslin]

soignee wrote...

**** it, published. Next chapter will have plot, I promise!
http://www.fanfictio...t/s/5771314/18/

YAY!  Thank you!  Off to read now...

Edit: This is fantastic! 

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 mai 2010 - 06:46 .

[Sarah1281]

So...much...angst...and they haven't even met Bhelen yet!