11146 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

Kryyptehk wrote...
I wonder if they start recording the casteless or just the ones that fight for the army...for that matter, would Rica be recorded in the Memories, since she is the mother of the King's son and because she is technically a noble?

We don't really know, but I think Bhelen would do it yes, if only to encourage them to fight harder and better.
Plus, after he dissolves the assembly, he doesn't have to worry about backlash as much.

Reforms usually take time, so if Bhelen doesn't do that immediately, there is a strong chance that he would eventually. He still has to be careful not to alienate all the nobles and warriors.

[soignee]

yeah, as Rica points out to you, she's "only" a courtesan.

2000 words written and I'm off to bed I think. Try again tomorrow after work...

[Sarah1281]

One thing dwarves tend to obsess over is tradition so if it were a tradition that the casteless were worthless unless a woman managed to bear a noble son then you'd think they would be less looked-down upon by the traditional families that back Harrowmont.



Plus there is the fact you're forced to ask what a noble hunter is as a DN. It could just be for the player's sake but since you have the option of using an 'I already know what a Templar is' reply to Alistair when he explains the insult of sending him to talk to the mages and are pretty much expected to know that bards are often spies then you'd think if it weren't so new then the would have been exposed to it no matter how sheltered they were and at least have an option of responding accordingly.

[Costin_Razvan]

He still has to be careful not to alienate all the nobles and warriors.

Most of the warriors you meet in game, tell you exactly what a hell of a life is, fighting in the Deep Roads against the Spawn. I am certain many of them would welcome help.



Obviously the heads of the Warriors won't be at all pleased, since they are nobles in a sense.

[Kryyptehk]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

I wonder if they start recording the casteless or just the ones that fight for the army...for that matter, would Rica be recorded in the Memories, since she is the mother of the King's son and because she is technically a noble?

She isn't a noble.

Don't they raise in castes if they have the son of another noble? Isn't that the whole point of noble hunting and the reason Beraht trained her to be one?

The point is that they are accepted to be around the nobles. And the nobles provide for them. Money that is given to Behrat as compensation.

If a duster becomes a paragon, his/her family would become nobles.

Edit: Well, the money and the goodwill of a noble house.

Yeah, I just looked that up and "Uncle" Beraht would have been taken in like Rica and Kalah. Only the child is a noble, until the DC becomes a Paragon.

So, doesn't one of the criers say that Bhelen is (or is going to be) married to a casteless, in this case, Rica? Or is that just trying to make him look bad? Also, would Rica, if she wasn't married to Bhelen, would she be considered a Aeducan or part of DC's house?

[Sarah1281]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

He still has to be careful not to alienate all the nobles and warriors.

Most of the warriors you meet in game, tell you exactly what a hell of a life is, fighting in the Deep Roads against the Spawn. I am certain many of them would welcome help.

Obviously the heads of the Warriors won't be at all pleased, since they are nobles in a sense.

They do? When is this? I don't remember hearing anything about it. Bhelen's epilogue does clearly state his pro-casteless reforms alienate the noble and warrior castes, not just the higher-up ones.

[Kryyptehk]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

He still has to be careful not to alienate all the nobles and warriors.

Most of the warriors you meet in game, tell you exactly what a hell of a life is, fighting in the Deep Roads against the Spawn. I am certain many of them would welcome help.

Obviously the heads of the Warriors won't be at all pleased, since they are nobles in a sense.

They do? When is this? I don't remember hearing anything about it. Bhelen's epilogue does clearly state his pro-casteless reforms alienate the noble and warrior castes, not just the higher-up ones.

Yeah, Oghren is the only one we hear about saying that being a warrior is hard. But that might just be him. A lot of warriors are offended by casteless fighting beside them.

[Herr Uhl]

Kryyptehk wrote...

So, doesn't one of the criers say that Bhelen is (or is going to be) married to a casteless, in this case, Rica? Or is that just trying to make him look bad? Also, would Rica, if she wasn't married to Bhelen, would she be considered a Aeducan or part of DC's house?

That is trying to make him look bad, but there might be a grain of truth in it. It isn't proper for a king to be married to someone that isn't noble.

That depends. She would probably join your house unless they marry and become a noble.

[Sarah1281]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

I wonder if they start recording the casteless or just the ones that fight for the army...for that matter, would Rica be recorded in the Memories, since she is the mother of the King's son and because she is technically a noble?

She isn't a noble.

Don't they raise in castes if they have the son of another noble? Isn't that the whole point of noble hunting and the reason Beraht trained her to be one?

The point is that they are accepted to be around the nobles. And the nobles provide for them. Money that is given to Behrat as compensation.

If a duster becomes a paragon, his/her family would become nobles.

Edit: Well, the money and the goodwill of a noble house.

Yeah, I just looked that up and "Uncle" Beraht would have been taken in like Rica and Kalah. Only the child is a noble, until the DC becomes a Paragon.

So, doesn't one of the criers say that Bhelen is (or is going to be) married to a casteless, in this case, Rica? Or is that just trying to make him look bad? Also, would Rica, if she wasn't married to Bhelen, would she be considered an Aeducan or part of DC's house?

If he were planning on it then it would be news to Rica as whenever you call her his wife - even at the end when she's a warrior and soon-to-be noble - she denies it and says she's a courtesan. I think there is just as much truth to that as there is to the rumor that the GW worship demons.

And that's the same question about Endrin. She's like 'My son will have his own House' even though if Bhelen is King then her son is SO staying with the Aeducans as he might very well end up King and Endrin is made the heir to House Aeducan if Harrowmont is the King and the DN isn't around to take the title instead. Maybe they are considered a part of both? 

[Costin_Razvan]

They do? When is this? I don't remember hearing anything about it.

There is Dwynn. Nevin, Lord Dace's Mercenary ( who just says when you click that he wished he could have been born a smith ).

[BigBad]

I still think that noble-hunting has been going on for a long time. One thing that is made very clear throughout the game and in every dealing with dwarves is that Orzammar society is very rigid and resistant to change. It's heavily implied, if not stated outright, that the caste system and its nuances have been, heh, set in stone for pretty much the extent of Orzammar's history.



I think the reason that traditionalists look down on noble-hunters is not because it's a new practice, but because it's a distasteful one. Sort of like prostitution in the real world, where it's an ancient and omnipresent phenomenon, but society at large considers it to be distasteful and degrading, even if individual opinions vary. It's like how old, rich families look down on 'new money' who, although legitimately rich and/or powerful, still aren't considered to be proper blue-bloods.



In the case of noble-hunters, they are grudgingly accepted because of tradition and the noble houses' need for sons, but they are not welcomed and it's considered seedy and improper. Noble women would probably be very hostile to the idea of competition from a casteless, thus the vocal scorn, but since tradition dictates that it's an acceptable loophole, their dissatisfaction is confined to vitriol.

[Kryyptehk]

BigBad wrote...

I still think that noble-hunting has been going on for a long time. One thing that is made very clear throughout the game and in every dealing with dwarves is that Orzammar society is very rigid and resistant to change. It's heavily implied, if not stated outright, that the caste system and its nuances have been, heh, set in stone for pretty much the extent of Orzammar's history.

I think the reason that traditionalists look down on noble-hunters is not because it's a new practice, but because it's a distasteful one. Sort of like prostitution in the real world, where it's an ancient and omnipresent phenomenon, but society at large considers it to be distasteful and degrading, even if individual opinions vary. It's like how old, rich families look down on 'new money' who, although legitimately rich and/or powerful, still aren't considered to be proper blue-bloods.

In the case of noble-hunters, they are grudgingly accepted because of tradition and the noble houses' need for sons, but they are not welcomed and it's considered seedy and improper. Noble women would probably be very hostile to the idea of competition from a casteless, thus the vocal scorn, but since tradition dictates that it's an acceptable loophole, their dissatisfaction is confined to vitriol.

I agree, this is why I assume it has been around for a while.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Time for some Bhelen love

[soignee]

oh god that crown is so lulzy, srsly

[Herr Uhl]

soignee wrote...

oh god that crown is so lulzy, srsly

At least they saved no expense. They probably should have though, it looks as if it would break your neck.

[Kryyptehk]

Man, stress really aged Bhelen. He's suppose to be, like, 20 and he looks 30.

[Sarah1281]

Where do Branka and Caridin even find the material to make the crown and the jewels to put on it? And how do they manage to do that and you manage to get to the Anvil and back within two days?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Man, stress really aged Bhelen. He's suppose to be, like, 20 and he looks 30.

The Dwarven Messiah doesn't have the luxury to rest

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Where do Branka and Caridin even find the material to make the crown and the jewels to put on it? 

They weren't made paragons for nothing. They can create things out of thin air!

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Man, stress really aged Bhelen. He's suppose to be, like, 20 and he looks 30.

The Dwarven Messiah doesn't have the luxury to rest

Does your DN suggest the nickname or just fnd it amusing when Bhelen subtly convinces people to call him that? 

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Where do Branka and Caridin even find the material to make the crown and the jewels to put on it? 

They weren't made paragons for nothing. They can create things out of thin air!

And they probably hammer it out in twenty minutes so you can make your deadline, too. Paragons are so considerate that way even when they are bat**** insane.

[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Man, stress really aged Bhelen. He's suppose to be, like, 20 and he looks 30.

The Dwarven Messiah doesn't have the luxury to rest

He isn't the Messiah until he can create wine from water. Though if he could do that, he would be a shoe-in for dwarven king:lol:

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Man, stress really aged Bhelen. He's suppose to be, like, 20 and he looks 30.

The Dwarven Messiah doesn't have the luxury to rest

Does your DN suggest the nickname or just fnd it amusing when Bhelen subtly convinces people to call him that? 

Dain does believe Bhelen is saving Orzammar, though messiah would be exagerrating things.
He would consider Bhelen the savior of Orzammar, yes. And he would consider himself the savior of all bloody Thedas.  

[BigBad]

Wine from water is the sign of the Dwarven Messiah?



Then . . . doesn't that make Oghren the Chosen One? After all, I sold every flask of alcohol I picked up and he still managed to be constantly drunk. He even brewed his own in camp, with no still!

[Herr Uhl]

BigBad wrote...

Wine from water is the sign of the Dwarven Messiah?

Then . . . doesn't that make Oghren the Chosen One? After all, I sold every flask of alcohol I picked up and he still managed to be constantly drunk. He even brewed his own in camp, with no still!

He can make booze from anything.