11146 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

I would just stick with the ruler who does the good things for his people, not some uptight nobles. In my case Bhelen.



Wisdom in the noble houses? Seriously Harrowmont? They have as much wisdom as a waffle.

[Sarah1281]

So Behlen still hates you or what?!

No, Bhelen is finally convinced you're not a threat after he's safely on the throne (with your support) and you get reinstated and he makes you a Paragon at the end so you'd have enough power to not need the throne.

I want Harrowmont to pick me as his heir.....

For all we know, he does. Just keep hanging around, don't do anything to convince him you, say, hate the caste system, remind him of how awesome your father was, cultivate your popularity, and wait until he dies...which should be fairly soon if there's no golems. Since it's implied he died of poison, having Zevran hang around for awhile might be a good idea.

[Cypher0020]

lolz.....orly? Interesting. Well... if Behlen decides too toss some paragonship in there... I may be interested in not plotting to kill him after all...



But I find being a GW being cooler.....almost.

[thegreateski]

I'm curious . . . has anyone else ever supported Bhelen then switched at the last moment and given the crown to Harrowmont like I have?



The most satisfying revenge ever . . .

[MutantSpleen]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Not really, Bhelen already had a great deal of the assembly eating out of his hand. It was the DN and Trian who were the fools.

And the assembly always votes.

I got the feeling the Assembly was really impressed by the DN as well; which caused Bhelen to kill two birds with one stone.

If you had remained in the picture after Trian died, Bhelen never would have been named King, even with all his deals.

I was a fool to think Bhelen was on my side though; I played it as we were co-conspirators. At then end I even told Harrowmont I did kill Trian.  (He called me a villian)

Modifié par MutantSpleen, 09 avril 2010 - 12:51 .

[Herr Uhl]

thegreateski wrote...

I'm curious . . . has anyone else ever supported Bhelen then switched at the last moment and given the crown to Harrowmont like I have?

The most satisfying revenge ever . . .

First playthrough. Though that was with a mage.

[Sarah1281]

I'm curious . . . has anyone else ever supported Bhelen then switched at the last moment and given the crown to Harrowmont like I have?

I did once but Harrowmont's 'I am surpsised given your previous tendencies but not ungrateful' or whatever he says is nowhere near as satisfying as 'I...You leave me speechless. After all the venom we've spewed at each other...but I am honored that you would do what is right for your House' so whenever I side with Bhelen I usually go that route. Besides, that way I don't have to put up with Vartag.

I got the feeling the Assembly was really impressed by the DN as well; which caused Bhelen to kill two birds with one stone.
If you had remained in the picture after Trian died, Bhelen never would have been named King, even with all his deals.

I agree. Like Gorim said, Trian may not have had enough support to become the next King but he certainly had enough to make it difficult to name someone else as King and if Bhelen's support was enough to become King, he wouldn't have needed to kill/exile his other siblings (which I never thought he did out of malice as much as out of self-interest anyway). If he had had Trian killed by mercenaries but not set the DN up or not had Ivo and the scout claim that the fight with Trian was just the DN randomly attacking, blame really wouldn't have been cast on him so I think it's clear that he needed to neutralize the DN by gettin them exiled...and even then it wasn't enough to make him King in a timely manner.

I was a fool to think Bhelen was on my side though; I played it as we were co-conspirators. At then end I even told Harrowmont I did kill Trian.  (He called me a villian)

He did? Harrowmont never ended up calling me a villain. Did you actually kill Trian? When you do kill him do other people actually think you did? Corra appeared to be the only NPC with a name who actually thought I was guilty but even she was willing to admit it could just have easily been Bhelen's doing but she couldn't take my word for it.

[Gilsa]

thegreateski wrote...

I'm curious . . . has anyone else ever supported Bhelen then switched at the last moment and given the crown to Harrowmont like I have?

The most satisfying revenge ever . . .

Yeah, but it's pretty anti-climatic. There's no special dialogue for betraying Bhelen this way. He just gives the same outraged lines regardless of origin and launches into his attack. I guess it boils down to why you side with Harrowmont. I sided with him because he saved my life, believed in me when no one else did, and more importantly, my father who had ruled all this time seemed to feel that Harrowmont was a good replacement. You'd almost need metagaming info to know how badly Harrowmont's rule turns out, but it's kind of like what Branka said. You could put a dozen Bhelens on the throne and history wouldn't notice. Harrowmont is just maintaining the status quo, not making things dramatically worse, and someone will come along and they can bring the changes he couldn't. Or not. Who knows?

I prefer to have one game where Harrowmont rules and one game where Bhelen rules just so I can see what ramifications that choice has in expansions or future games. I honestly don't think it's going to matter.

Edit: I rambled. I liked Harrowmont and when I found that there was no special betrayal scene when I sided with Bhelen and switched last minute to Harrowmont, I felt like the ultimate dick. I had basically shunned Harrowmont (under the guise of working for my brother) and when he was king, he didn't give me any dialogue so I didn't get to hear about my father's last moments from him. I decided it was just better to pick the king you want and side with him the whole way. If you try to play both sides, then your companions may start arguing with you.

Modifié par Gilsa, 09 avril 2010 - 04:31 .

[MutantSpleen]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I'm curious . . . has anyone else ever supported Bhelen then switched at the last moment and given the crown to Harrowmont like I have?

I did once but Harrowmont's 'I am surpsised given your previous tendencies but not ungrateful' or whatever he says is nowhere near as satisfying as 'I...You leave me speechless. After all the venom we've spewed at each other...but I am honored that you would do what is right for your House' so whenever I side with Bhelen I usually go that route. Besides, that way I don't have to put up with Vartag.

I got the feeling the Assembly was really impressed by the DN as well; which caused Bhelen to kill two birds with one stone.
If you had remained in the picture after Trian died, Bhelen never would have been named King, even with all his deals.

I agree. Like Gorim said, Trian may not have had enough support to become the next King but he certainly had enough to make it difficult to name someone else as King and if Bhelen's support was enough to become King, he wouldn't have needed to kill/exile his other siblings (which I never thought he did out of malice as much as out of self-interest anyway). If he had had Trian killed by mercenaries but not set the DN up or not had Ivo and the scout claim that the fight with Trian was just the DN randomly attacking, blame really wouldn't have been cast on him so I think it's clear that he needed to neutralize the DN by gettin them exiled...and even then it wasn't enough to make him King in a timely manner.

I was a fool to think Bhelen was on my side though; I played it as we were co-conspirators. At then end I even told Harrowmont I did kill Trian.  (He called me a villian)

He did? Harrowmont never ended up calling me a villain. Did you actually kill Trian? When you do kill him do other people actually think you did? Corra appeared to be the only NPC with a name who actually thought I was guilty but even she was willing to admit it could just have easily been Bhelen's doing but she couldn't take my word for it.

Oh yeah I cut his head off,.(what a time to get a decapitation)

When Bhelen, Gorim and I were discussing Trian coming after me, I believe my response was along the lines of  "Ok Trian dies"

Trian confronted me about plotting with Bhelen in the Deep Roads and tried to place me under arrest.  When I refused he attacked and I chopped his head off. Then I preceeded to gut that sniveling scout, would have like to get Ivo too but I was under arrest at that point.

When Harrowmont cast me into the Deep Roads and told me to look him in the eye and tell him I didn't kill Trian. I said "I did it and I enjoyed it"  Then he called me a villain.

Modifié par MutantSpleen, 09 avril 2010 - 05:30 .

[Sarah1281]

When Harrowmont cast me into the Deep Roads and told me to look him in the eye and tell him I didn't kill Trian. I said "I did it and I enjoyed it" Then he called me a villain.

Well that explains that. Did you have an option of denying it? And did Harrowmont have any special 'you're an evil kin-slayer' dialogue when you returned to Orzammar?

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

When Harrowmont cast me into the Deep Roads and told me to look him in the eye and tell him I didn't kill Trian. I said "I did it and I enjoyed it" Then he called me a villain.

Well that explains that. Did you have an option of denying it?

You can always deny it. And he believes you (what a schmuck).

[Sarah1281]

You can always deny it. And he believes you (what a schmuck).

So he's shocked if you admit to it? I can't see him telling Endrin you confessed because, well, that would just kill him faster.

[MutantSpleen]

Sarah1281 wrote...

When Harrowmont cast me into the Deep Roads and told me to look him in the eye and tell him I didn't kill Trian. I said "I did it and I enjoyed it" Then he called me a villain.

Well that explains that. Did you have an option of denying it? And did Harrowmont have any special 'you're an evil kin-slayer' dialogue when you returned to Orzammar?

Yeah I did not deny it, I could have lied. I was roleplaying that I always thought Harrowmont was a weakling and a poor advisor to Endrin. I didn't care what he thought. I figured I was about to die anyway, why lie?

I haven't gotten back to Orzammar yet.  I am kind of flip-flopping back and forth between my DN and DC right now.  This is my second DN play, my first DN was a goody two shoes. (Picked Harrowmont ack...)

I can't wait to see if Harrowmont says anything juicy when I get back to Orzammar (I've done the tower and I am in Redcliffe, I think I will finish Redcliffe and start Orzammar next tonight.)

Modifié par MutantSpleen, 09 avril 2010 - 05:21 .

[Gilsa]

He might. I noticed in the toolkit the other day that if you tell Harrowmont you killed Trian and you enjoyed it, it sets the "part on bad terms" flag. So you may have slightly different dialogue when you run into him again.



I don't have the toolkit on this computer (my toddler is playing World of Goo on my computer so laptop, it is), but I saw something that confused me. I don't understand the conditions so I didn't mention it before, but apparently if you get a high enough number for ... something (I *think* this bases on how well you cooperate with Bhelen or Harrowmont), Harrowmont was supposed to award King Endrin's mace to the Warden. The second reward (if the number is in the middle) was Harrowmont's staff. There is something similar that Bhelen offers that is a step above Trian's maul. I'll look it up later.

[soignee]

As an aside, World of Goo is AWSUM.

[Gilsa]

It really is. I hadn't heard of it until a friend on Facebook said that the game was on sale and the customer could pay whatever they wanted, even as little as 1 cent. He disapproved of paying so little and said it really was a worthwhile game. I gave five dollars, not really expecting much from it, but good lord, it's the game that keeps giving. It's simple. I enjoy the challenges and my toddler started out with just building with the goo balls, but as time goes by, he figures out the challenges and how to win the levels. Plus the word "goo" is so wonderfully fun to say.

"Goo!"
"You want to play Goo?"
"Goo!"
"GOO."
GooOOooo!"
"Let's play Goo!"
"Goo!"

Modifié par Gilsa, 09 avril 2010 - 05:32 .

[soignee]

Gilsa wrote...

It really is. I hadn't heard of it until a friend on Facebook said that the game was on sale and the customer could pay whatever they wanted, even as little as 1 cent. He disapproved of paying so little and said it really was a worthwhile game. I gave five dollars, not really expecting much from it, but good lord, it's the game that keeps giving. It's simple. I enjoy the challenges and my toddler started out with just building with the goo balls, but as time goes by, he figures out the challenges and how to win the levels. Plus the word "goo" is so wonderfully fun to say.

"Goo!"
"You want to play Goo?"
"Goo!"
"GOO."
GooOOooo!"
"Let's play Goo!"
"Goo!"

<3Awwwn. Cute post is cute! I play it when I need cheering up. Sooooo well done.

[Sarah1281]

I can't wait to see if Harrowmont says anything juicy when I get back to Orzammar (I've done the tower and I am in Redcliffe, I think I will finish Redcliffe and start Orzammar next tonight.)

You get the feeling that Harrowmont is the main force behind all those 'Bhelen killed Trian' rumors that are hurting Bhelen's cause so if he still does that even though he knows it's your fault then that's definitely just a smear campaign.

I don't understand the conditions so I didn't mention it before, but apparently if you get a high enough number for ... something (I *think* this bases on how well you cooperate with Bhelen or Harrowmont), Harrowmont was supposed to award King Endrin's mace to the Warden.

Oh my God, I want Endrin's mace! My DN could use Trian's maul but how could they possibly use Harrowmont's staff and Morrigan and Wynne don't see the sentimental value in it.

[Gilsa]

This is the dialogue tree I found. Currently we all get the staff and trian's maul respectively. No clue if this is bugged in the game or if they decided to scrap out the top rewards at the last minute.

PC: "And I must return to my duties on the surface."

IF: HARROWMONT_SUPPORT 8+
SET: ORZ_END_REWARD_KING_ENDRINS_MACE
ACTION: The player gets a mace that is enchanted against darkspawn.
Harrowmont: "You have done more than any other to preserve the city King Endrin loved. He would want you to have his maul."

IF: HARROWMONT_SUPPORT 5+
SET: ORZ_END_REWARD_HARROWMONTS_STAFF
ACTION: The player gets a nice staff.
Harrowmont: "This is the staff I carried as King Endrin's second. Take it as a reminder of your place in Orzammar."

DEFAULT (There are no conditions and no reward assigned -- looks like if player has less than 5, then this dialogue is supposed to fire instead.)
Harrowmont: "I wish you luck against the Blight, Warden. May we foster another four centuries of peace."

----------------------------
PC: "And I must return to my duties on the surface."

IF: BHELEN_SUPPORT 8+
SET: ORZ_END_REWARD_AEDUCAN_MACE
ACTION: The player gets a mace that is enchanted against darkspawn.
Bhelen: "This is an ancient mace of House Aeducan. It's said to be enchanted against darkspawn. I think you need it more than I do."

IF: BHELEN_SUPPORT 5+
SET: ORZ_END_REWARD_TRIANS_MAUL
ACTION: The player gets a nice maul.
Bhelen: "This was a maul favored by my brother Trian. Take it with you as a reminder of your ties to Orzammar."
(IF: Dwarf Noble) Bhelen: "You may recognize this. Trian used it to crack skulls when he was showing off for Father. I'm sure he'd want you to have it."

DEFAULT (There are no conditions and no reward assigned -- looks like if player has less than 5, then this dialogue is supposed to fire instead.)
Bhelen: "Now, I have much to do. If there is nothing else..."

Modifié par Gilsa, 09 avril 2010 - 06:08 .

[Gilsa]

And Sarah, yeah, I was like WTF on getting the staff as a dwarf player. Why does HE have a staff if dwarves aren't mages in general? It should have been coded as a 2H weapon that looked like a symbolic staff or something.

[MutantSpleen]

Gilsa wrote...

And Sarah, yeah, I was like WTF on getting the staff as a dwarf player. Why does HE have a staff if dwarves aren't mages in general? It should have been coded as a 2H weapon that looked like a symbolic staff or something.

Harrowmont is some demon abomination in the form of a dwarf! I knew there was something fishy about him.

[Sarah1281]

That's got to be bugged. I get the maul/staff regardless of if I go with Bhelen/Harrowmont from the beginning or at the last second.I haven't agreed to work for both as I've heard there is a good chance of breaking the quest but I can't imagine working for one secretly while publicly hurting them would get you more goodwill then just picking a side and sticking to it and from what I've heard Harrowmont, at least, is annoyed by the loss of support from Houses Helmi and Dace.

[Sarah1281]

Why does HE have a staff if dwarves aren't mages in general? It should have been coded as a 2H weapon that looked like a symbolic staff or something.

I think someone gave it to him and he just uses it as a ceremonial staff and gives it to you in turn but that still leaves the question of what idiot thought to give a mage staff to Harrowmont in the first place?

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

That's got to be bugged. I get the maul/staff regardless of if I go with Bhelen/Harrowmont from the beginning or at the last second.I haven't agreed to work for both as I've heard there is a good chance of breaking the quest but I can't imagine working for one secretly while publicly hurting them would get you more goodwill then just picking a side and sticking to it and from what I've heard Harrowmont, at least, is annoyed by the loss of support from Houses Helmi and Dace.

Entering the provings in the name of Bhelen nets you more than just doing Bhelen's thing. Like saying that Bhelen's papers were forged  to Helmi and Dace does the same for Harrowmont.

At least I think it does.

[Sarah1281]

You can do that? How? When I entered the Proving it automatically said I was Harrowmont's fighter. Is this is you just decide to do the Proving of your own initiative without talking to Dulin or agreeing to help him? And would telling Helmi and Dace about the forgeries require having the Shaper declare them forgeries and telling Dulin what Bhelen wants you to do?