11146 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Jess]

BigBad wrote...

Proportionally longer in relation to the size and shape of the body, not actually longer in length.

No, the problem is they just put human/elf arms on the dwarf body and called it a day.

[tmp7704]

Herr Uhl wrote...

I meant that I didn't notice that they were shorter now. They looked pretty normal on the female in the middle.

I suppose that tells something about their original length then, because the modified version is shortened by 13 cm, that's roughly full length of dwarf hand.

Regarding proportions... i can only offer reference picture here:



these are standard "7.5 heads" proportions of a human being. This includes arm length, which doesn't exactly change depending on character's weight. So if this appears disproportionate... what can i say, perhaps it tells something about how warped our perceptions of what's proportionate have become.

(and argument can be made that it looks different from the default DA dwarves but that's kind of the point)

the full version of the source image, which illustrates pretty well the difference between "8 heads" proportions and the smaller type is here: http://alittlesewing...as-8-heads.html

[tmp7704]

BigBad wrote...

Dwarves are shorter, with denser muscle tissue, rounded jawbones, and longer arms. Elves are shorter than humans, tend toward the slender, have sharp cheekbones, and have pointed ears. Complaining about it is like complaining that a bulldog doesn't look like a wolf or a fox. It's not supposed to.

The proportionally longer arms on dwarves are, in fact, correct. Correct for dwarves. Which are not human and are deliberately designed to be visually distinct from humans, instead of being regular short people.

I'd grant you this argument if it wasn't directly contradicted by BioWare artists themselves.

http://dragonage.bio...dwarf_commoner/
http://dragonage.bio...rs/noble_dwarf/

can we agree if it was intended for dwarves to have much longer arms, this would be also featured in their artwork of dwarves outside of the game? But oddly enough it is missing and these dwarves are shown with perfectly "normal" proportions, even though it is much easier to just draw a dwarf with longer arms on the poster, than it is to alter full set of 3d shapes. There's no "lore" explanation for that.

[Sarah1281]

Wow, the casteless description was really chilling.

[thegreateski]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Wow, the casteless description was really chilling.

Even more so if it was Oskias she was talking to.

A polite conversation before you slaughter someone is only good manners after all.

[BigBad]

tmp7704 wrote...

BigBad wrote...

Dwarves are shorter, with denser muscle tissue, rounded jawbones, and longer arms. Elves are shorter than humans, tend toward the slender, have sharp cheekbones, and have pointed ears. Complaining about it is like complaining that a bulldog doesn't look like a wolf or a fox. It's not supposed to.

The proportionally longer arms on dwarves are, in fact, correct. Correct for dwarves. Which are not human and are deliberately designed to be visually distinct from humans, instead of being regular short people.

I'd grant you this argument if it wasn't directly contradicted by BioWare artists themselves.

http://dragonage.bio...dwarf_commoner/
http://dragonage.bio...rs/noble_dwarf/

can we agree if it was intended for dwarves to have much longer arms, this would be also featured in their artwork of dwarves outside of the game? But oddly enough it is missing and these dwarves are shown with perfectly "normal" proportions, even though it is much easier to just draw a dwarf with longer arms on the poster, than it is to alter full set of 3d shapes. There's no "lore" explanation for that.

That's concept art, which doesn't count because "concept art" is another term for "blatant lies."

[tmp7704]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Wow, the casteless description was really chilling.

Yup. And people say elves are angry with the world. They just haven't met a proper dwarf.

[Sarah1281]

I think if the dwarven arms were supposed to be so huge lore-wise then someone would comment on them. I mean, how often are elven ears mentioned?

[Radahldo]

I don't think people in Ferelden are so creative as to pass up a short joke for a comment on someones long, muscular arms.

[thegreateski]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I think if the dwarven arms were supposed to be so huge lore-wise then someone would comment on them. I mean, how often are elven ears mentioned?

Erm . . . a lot.

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I think if the dwarven arms were supposed to be so huge lore-wise then someone would comment on them. I mean, how often are elven ears mentioned?

Still, nobody mentions that Sten has pointy ears.

[Sarah1281]

thegreateski wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I think if the dwarven arms were supposed to be so huge lore-wise then someone would comment on them. I mean, how often are elven ears mentioned?

Erm . . . a lot.

That's the point. Elf ears are supposed to be pointy and people do talk about it often enough. If dwarf arms are supposed to be long as well it makes no sense they'd never mention it.

I don't think people in Ferelden are so creative as to pass up a short joke for a comment on someones long, muscular arms

They wouldn't have to. During the game people also talk about dwarves and alcohol and dwarves and smithing/merchanting. You'd think a long arms joke would be easier.

[Radahldo]

Hey, Dwarf; why don't you go grip a giant boulder with those long arms of yours?

[Sarah1281]

Radahldo wrote...

Hey, Dwarf; why don't you go grip a giant boulder with those long arms of yours?

If they can make jokes and derogatory nicknames about big ears they can do so for big arms.

[thegreateski]

well . . . big arms usually means muscular.



It is difficult to make fun of someone with arms the size of a python.

[tmp7704]

BigBad wrote...

That's concept art, which doesn't count because "concept art" is another term for "blatant lies."

Yet that's the only portrayal of the dwarves on BioWare's site. If the dwarves are supposed to have longer arms why wouldn't they provide any drawings of them as such, and insist instead on perpetuating the "blatant lies"?

[Radahldo]

But they are just arms. I mean, Ears are elves individuating feature; you can cut them off and make them eat it, pull on them, spill oil in their ear cannals.

But what of arms? They are just long. It seems to go

1. Being short

2. Being stocky

3. Smithing

4. Scared of the sky.

5. Beards


Arms just don't seem as important as ears, so it makes sense, even if it the game was justified by lore in making their arms so long, that no one would mention it.

Modifié par Radahldo, 30 mai 2010 - 01:31 .

[BigBad]

Also, a point: we don't know that nobody makes fun of dwarf arms in-universe. We only know that nobody does so in our presence over the course of the game. In fact, I heard more people dismissing dwarves because of 'greed' or 'stubbornness' than even height.

[Lady Jess]

Radahldo wrote...

But they are just arms. I mean, Ears are elves individuating feature; you can cut them off and make them eat it, pull on them, spill oil in their ear cannals.

But what of arms? They are just long. It seems to go

1. Being short

2. Being stocky

3. Smithing

4. Scared of the sky.

5. Beards


Arms just don't seem as important as ears, so it makes sense, even if it the game was justified by lore in making their arms so long, that no one would mention it.

Or it could just be they got lazy and used the same arm mesh on dwarves that they used on every other race and hoped noone would notice and/or care.

[tmp7704]

thegreateski wrote...

well . . . big arms usually means muscular.

It is difficult to make fun of someone with arms the size of a python.

Not when one is drunk enough.

In addition, if the dwarves are supposed to have longer and more muscular arms than humans and elves you'd expect the dwarves to mock the humans and elves about this difference. I mean, big arms being masculine trait it's not unlike mocking other races about being less endowed in other places. And Oghren definitely takes time to mock human and elf females about their shortcomings when it comes to other assets, when compared to dwarf girls.

[FreemanPhD]

Hmm, Tmp7704, I think I love you. Please, the world would be a better place if this mod was fully executed.

And what's the big deal BigBad? If you don't want the mod, don't use it. I know I  will be using it once Tmp releases it, cuz them arms, they scare me, which is such a shame because Dwarves can come out quite attractive even when using the vanilla CC.

Modifié par FreemanPhD, 30 mai 2010 - 01:50 .

[ejoslin]

I will be using it as well. Dwarf arms just look odd. I love playing dwarves and I for the most part have learned to ignore them, but a proportionate dwarf will be a complete improvement. Thank you, tmp7704, for doing this.

[thegreateski]

tmp7704 wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

well . . . big arms usually means muscular.

It is difficult to make fun of someone with arms the size of a python.

Not when one is drunk enough.

In addition, if the dwarves are supposed to have longer and more muscular arms than humans and elves you'd expect the dwarves to mock the humans and elves about this difference. I mean, big arms being masculine trait it's not unlike mocking other races about being less endowed in other places. And Oghren definitely takes time to mock human and elf females about their shortcomings when it comes to other assets, when compared to dwarf girls.

Bleh . . . I'm not sure where I read it but apparently the Dwarves have a superiority complex when it comes to dealing with "surfacers".

Hell both of the Dwarf PCs can be . . . what's the word? distrustful? of the surface.

[Radahldo]

Or it could just be they got lazy and used the same arm mesh on dwarves that they used on every other race and hoped noone would notice and/or care.

I wasnt really  addressing that

Modifié par Radahldo, 30 mai 2010 - 01:51 .

[Radahldo]

Well, anyway; I've decided from now on to pretend that the Scout in the DN origin is from house Gavorn, Vartags house.