11146 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

You do realize that what Loghain does ( as in saying FU to the nobles and assuming power ) is not very far from what Bhelen does right?



Hell...Loghain with his deep hatreds, channeled against the Darkspawn, would probably do even better then Bhelen.

[Sarah1281]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I wonder how Loghain would do as a ruler in Orzammar...."rubs chin in deep thought".

Anyway....Fallout 3 is so sad when James dies....he is just so awesome.

Destroy it, probably. Orzammar has less of a population than Ferelden, so I imagine by the end there would be 2 or 3 dwarves left.

I don't know; they seem okay with smashing your opponents and kidnapping them. He just needs a bit more subtlety. Then again, Bhelen wasn't really acting with much once he got the throne.  Actually, I think Howe would make a decent Orzammar noble although he'd fail as a ruler.

[Gilsa]

I would imagine that Loghain would make better use of the dwarven troops and know what areas of the Deep Roads to deploy them to. He doesn't strike me as a man that would park his ass on the throne -- he'd be out there leading the dwarves and pushing back the darkspawn further and further, maybe far enough back so that repair crews could seal off areas and rebuild on a thiag they just reclaimed.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Loghain really doesn't enjoy the role of leader, though. He would not be a happy king. He is happiest being the general leading the armies for a leader he respects and admires greatly.

[Costin_Razvan]

Perhaps he wouldn't enjoy doing it, but he would still do it regardless.



He is a LOT like Paragon Aeducan was.

[tmp7704]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Destroy it, probably. Orzammar has less of a population than Ferelden, so I imagine by the end there would be 2 or 3 dwarves left.

I don't know; they seem okay with smashing your opponents and kidnapping them. He just needs a bit more subtlety.

I think the point is even the dwarves' own idea of politics isn't exactly healthy for the dwarves themselves, it certainly doesn't seem to be making them a thriving and developing society. Now bring Loghain's idea of subtlety into the mix -- sell off the casteless, waste half of your warrior caste just to get the current king killed and then eliminate half of existing nobility for not falling into the line... and you just might start to run out of dwarves indeed, especially with their lower birth rate.

Modifié par tmp7704, 08 juin 2010 - 06:52 .

[Kryyptehk]

tmp7704 wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

Destroy it, probably. Orzammar has less of a population than Ferelden, so I imagine by the end there would be 2 or 3 dwarves left.

I don't know; they seem okay with smashing your opponents and kidnapping them. He just needs a bit more subtlety.

I think the point is even the dwarves' own idea of politics isn't exactly healthy for the dwarves themselves, it certainly doesn't seem to be making them a thriving and developing society. Now bring Loghain's idea of subtlety into the mix -- sell off the casteless, waste half of your warrior caste just to get the current king killed and then eliminate half of existing nobility for not falling into the line... and you just might start to run out of dwarves indeed, especially with their lower birth rate.

Very nicely said. Much better than I could do.

[ejoslin]

edit: Ok, the conversation moved TOO far away for me to leave this here.  NOTHING to see at all.  Back to FO3 for me!

Modifié par ejoslin, 08 juin 2010 - 06:56 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Perhaps he wouldn't enjoy doing it, but he would still do it regardless.

He is a LOT like Paragon Aeducan was.

But I do not think he would be very successful as a ruler. Good generals make crap politicians and leaders. A good politician is like Bhelen: subtle, cunning, ruthless, manipulative, silver tongued. A good politician has to be very sharp with skills on how to work things to your advantage, and they more often then not, do not get their hands dirty.

We see Loghain did a terrible job running Ferelden, because he could not get the nobility in line without ripping the country apart in a civil war. Which is why he should have left the ruling part to his daughter, who was far more adept at such things.

Being a successful ruler requires one cary an olive branch in one hand and a massive battle axe in the other. Which is more Bhelen's style.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Loghain will never be as good as Bhelen. Loghain is made to be a general, not a politician. He hates doing it. Bhelen on the otherhand loves it.

[Giggles_Manically]

Few people in history have been good Generals as well as Politicians:

Akbar, Alexander the Great, Augustus, Ieyusa, and Charlamenge are the most famous.



Many politicans lack the ability to see every possible outcome, or to lead from the front.

While many Generals lack subtlety in peace time usually.



In short many people in history who try to do both fail very badly.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ironically, Harrowmont was a general.

[Costin_Razvan]

No comments there....

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ironically, Harrowmont was a general.

Which I always found difficult to believe. The guy was a complete pansy politically. Hard to imagine him having the stones and ability to actually do well in a combat situation.

[Costin_Razvan]

Ah well....a "general" in Orzammar is just the guy who relates orders from the King to the troops. They don't question it because that would mean suicide.

Knight: You did say you would review my FF 

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 08 juin 2010 - 07:27 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ironically, Harrowmont was a general.

Which I always found difficult to believe. The guy was a complete pansy politically. Hard to imagine him having the stones and ability to actually do well in a combat situation.

I can imagine it. Why do you think the Dwarves have been getting their asses beaten until Bhelen gets in charge?

[Sarah1281]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ironically, Harrowmont was a general.

Which I always found difficult to believe. The guy was a complete pansy politically. Hard to imagine him having the stones and ability to actually do well in a combat situation.

 Yeah, Bhelen calls him on his overly-cautious approach in the DN origin. Actually, I'm kind of surprised he made head of his House. Either his House is made up of people just like him or they wanted to capitilize on his friendship with Endrin to boost their House's standing and, like with Lord Helmi, figured he'd be easy to manipulate into doing what they wanted.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Knight: You did say you would review my FF 

Oh right. Sorry about that.
So the link is in your sig?

[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ironically, Harrowmont was a general.

Which I always found difficult to believe. The guy was a complete pansy politically. Hard to imagine him having the stones and ability to actually do well in a combat situation.

I can imagine it. Why do you think the Dwarves have been getting their asses beaten until Bhelen gets in charge?

I assumed they were drinking too much lichen-ale.

[Costin_Razvan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Knight: You did say you would review my FF 

Oh right. Sorry about that.
So the link is in your sig?

yes.

 Actually, I'm kind of surprised he made head of his House.  

I like to think that Dulin is the one actually calling the shots for Harrowmont, doing everything that needs to be done to keep the old man in power.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 08 juin 2010 - 07:30 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Hmmm, now I found another reason why one might be misled into picking Harrowmont over Bhelen. That misled person might believe that Harrowmont has military experience, while Bhelen has none. So that makes Harrowmont a better "war king".

But even at that, Bhelen pwns him into the lyrium filled dust.

[soignee]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Hmmm, now I found another reason why one might be misled into picking Harrowmont over Bhelen. That misled person might believe that Harrowmont has military experience, while Bhelen has none. So that makes Harrowmont a better "war king".
But even at that, Bhelen pwns him into the lyrium filled dust.

Lyrium filled dust made me think of coke, not going to lie. i got this image of dwarves doing lines at a party and it's LOLZ.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ironically, Harrowmont was a general.

Which I always found difficult to believe. The guy was a complete pansy politically. Hard to imagine him having the stones and ability to actually do well in a combat situation.

 Yeah, Bhelen calls him on his overly-cautious approach in the DN origin. Actually, I'm kind of surprised he made head of his House. Either his House is made up of people just like him or they wanted to capitilize on his friendship with Endrin to boost their House's standing and, like with Lord Helmi, figured he'd be easy to manipulate into doing what they wanted.

What seals the nail in Harrowmont's coffin for me:

When you are working for him and make him king, he does not say "you will have your troops". He says something like "I'll put the matter to a vote before the assembly".

Uhhh....stop the press. Bad move, slick. A real war leader does not put any matter "to the vote" when the enemy is at your gates whipping out the battering ram. You act. You step on toes. **** tradition, **** honor, **** all that. You get the damned job done, period, and you don't screw around with "the Assembly". Democratic process and the threat of imminent doom do not mix.

And besides, it also shows Harrowmont basically can't wipe his ass without the approval of the deshyrs. So he dies in damn near every playthrough. Well, the ones I care about, at least.

[Giggles_Manically]

Do you get to say anything to Gorim or Rica if you are in a romance with anyone, since I got the dialouge fix I am wondering if you can say anything about that.

[Sarah1281]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Do you get to say anything to Gorim or Rica if you are in a romance with anyone, since I got the dialouge fix I am wondering if you can say anything about that.

  Well, you can tell Gorim if you're a HN but I don't think you can say anything to Rica. Gilsa's been having problems getting to tell Gorim that she's in love with Alistair, though.