11146 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

So...we've already seen what happens to make them hate each other but it just hasn't been spelled out yet? And how did they get along before this?

[Costin_Razvan]

Duran tolerated Trian and allowed him his proper place as first child, but as he grew older he started tounderstand that his older brother was the worst choice for king. Seriously he would make Harrowmont look good.



Now I will just ask you to wait till next chapter, then it will all be explained.

[Sarah1281]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Duran tolerated Trian and allowed him his proper place as first child, but as he grew older he started tounderstand that his older brother was the worst choice for king. Seriously he would make Harrowmont look good.

Now I will just ask you to wait till next chapter, then it will all be explained.

But when will that be? 

And how can he honestly be worse than Harrowmont? With Harrowmont on the throne they might as well not have even had a King with his views that they by a figurehead. It's almost like he's convinced he lives in modern Europe or something...

[Costin_Razvan]

Next chapter? Who knows. I might start writing right now.



I wrote this chapter over the night, well 3.000 words of them 3.800 of them.



Harrowmont at least stayed on the throne for a few months, unlike Trian...

[Sarah1281]

So Trian would be a worse King because he can't keep himself alive? If Bhelen hadn't committed suicide in the game you can bet Harrowmont wouldn't have lasted very long either.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Actually, I think Trian would have been able to survive had he become king. A traditionalist, but a strong traditionalist, unlike Harrowmont. As for his death, wel the DN didn't fare well against Bhelen's genius either.

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Actually, I think Trian would have been able to survive had he become king. A traditionalist, but a strong traditionalist, unlike Harrowmont. As for his death, wel the DN didn't fare well against Bhelen's genius either.

True, but if the mercenaries that you have to kill to get to the shield are the ones that Bhelen hired to kill him if you don't do it personally and you can dispatch them with ease then that's a little pathetic on Trian's part. I mean, it's one thing if he loses to you but a couple of mercenaries? 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Actually, I think Trian would have been able to survive had he become king. A traditionalist, but a strong traditionalist, unlike Harrowmont. As for his death, wel the DN didn't fare well against Bhelen's genius either.

True, but if the mercenaries that you have to kill to get to the shield are the ones that Bhelen hired to kill him if you don't do it personally and you can dispatch them with ease then that's a little pathetic on Trian's part. I mean, it's one thing if he loses to you but a couple of mercenaries? 

I am talking about him as a ruler, not a warrior.
Bhelen too can get himself killed. That doen't make him a weak king.

Trian might be a weak warrior, but I think he would be a strong, if stagnant and unimpressive king.

[Costin_Razvan]

So what's your take on my latest chapter Knight?

 Trian might be a weak warrior, but I think he would be a strong, if stagnant and unimpressive king.

I do not think he is a weak warrior, but rather that he is a good one, a decent commander who works very well under pressure in a pitch battle, but a fool who wouldn't see an ambush even if it bit him in the ass before it was sprung.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 17 juin 2010 - 03:37 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

I just noticed it was up. I'll read it now.

[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Actually, I think Trian would have been able to survive had he become king. A traditionalist, but a strong traditionalist, unlike Harrowmont. As for his death, wel the DN didn't fare well against Bhelen's genius either.

True, but if the mercenaries that you have to kill to get to the shield are the ones that Bhelen hired to kill him if you don't do it personally and you can dispatch them with ease then that's a little pathetic on Trian's part. I mean, it's one thing if he loses to you but a couple of mercenaries? 

I am talking about him as a ruler, not a warrior.
Bhelen too can get himself killed. That doen't make him a weak king.

Trian might be a weak warrior, but I think he would be a strong, if stagnant and unimpressive king.

I agree. Though I suppose not changing anything is better than some of the endings you can get with Harrowmont.

Though I have a question, would you prefer Bhelen as king or Dain?

EDIT: Though now that I think about it, would Trian be any different than Harrowmont? Wasn't he a traditionalist too?

Modifié par Kryyptehk, 17 juin 2010 - 03:38 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Kryyptehk wrote...
Though I have a question, would you prefer Bhelen as king or Dain?

Initially, there is no doubt Dain was planing to become King, thought he wanted to avoid killing Trian if possible.
 
But after what happened, he resigned to his fate and accepted Bhelen was the better man. Until an opportunity arose (Alistair). So Dain decided he would be better off ruling Ferelden as Chancellor of a weak king, and let Bhelen rule Orzammar. That way, House Aeducan would be dominant in two places and they can collaborate for the good of the Dwarves as a whole. Dain shared Bhelen's vision that isolation from the surface had to be allievated or removed completely, in order to insure the properity of Orzammar. Dain being Ferelden's Chancellor would greatly facilitate this.

So as it turned out, Dain had no problem with Bhelen being king of Orzammar.

EDIT: yes Trian was a traditionalist. But he wasn't weak. At least that's not what I saw in him.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 juin 2010 - 03:43 .

[Sarah1281]

Yeah, when you say you'll kill Trian and then deny it you'll get this piece of dialogue:

Trian: "I know I will never be loved in Orzammar, but I will rule. Nothing, not even treacherous kin, will stop me from claiming my right." (VO: Speaker may be a little sad that he'll never be loved, but he believes he can be the strongest ruler of his people and this declaration should reflect his belief.)



Whereas if you tell Harrowmont that if he's a strong King then the people will follow him he's all 'oh, I don't want to be strong. I want to be kind and just.' Admittedly, those two might be mutually exclusive in Orzammar politics but it's difficult for anyone to be under the illusion he's a strong King. Of course, by that point Bhelen's committed suicide and so it's too late to change your mind.

[Kryyptehk]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Yeah, when you say you'll kill Trian and then deny it you'll get this piece of dialogue:
Trian: "I know I will never be loved in Orzammar, but I will rule. Nothing, not even treacherous kin, will stop me from claiming my right." (VO: Speaker may be a little sad that he'll never be loved, but he believes he can be the strongest ruler of his people and this declaration should reflect his belief.)

Whereas if you tell Harrowmont that if he's a strong King then the people will follow him he's all 'oh, I don't want to be strong. I want to be kind and just.' Admittedly, those two might be mutually exclusive in Orzammar politics but it's difficult for anyone to be under the illusion he's a strong King. Of course, by that point Bhelen's committed suicide and so it's too late to change your mind.

Wow, I wish I read the toolset more often. I always thought he was just power-hungry and was just angry that one of his siblings might steal his birthright (which it wasn't, but in his mind it was).

[Sarah1281]

Oh yeah, he's quite upset with you for this and even, dare I say it, hurt.

Gilsa wrote...

TRIAN MURDER SCENE (IF YOU KILL HIM YOURSELF)

Trian: "'Atrast vala, Sister/Brother." (VO: cold. "Atrast vala"= a-TRAST VA-la.  Hello, greetings.)

1. Where are the others?
Trian: "They will arrive soon enough. I wanted to see you first, to look into your treacherous eyes and tell you I know what you planned." (VO: Some disappointment and sadness, quite a bit of bitterness.)

1a. Where's your signet ring, Trian? *Go to tree #1*

1b. And what was that?
Trian: "Do you think I am blind?" (VO: Anger, hostility)
Trian: "I am the prince of Orzammar. I have eyes and ears everywhere!" (VO: Anger. Says this in a "are you stupid?" sort of way, but really dramatic.)
1b-1: I don't know what you're talking about. *Go to Trian's response in tree #2, line 5*
1b-2: What is it you think you know?
Trian: "Do you think I fear to name your treachery?" (VO: Challenging, scornful) *Go to tree #2*
1b-3: I have eyes and ears of my own.
Trian: "And do they tell you I am weak and ripe to be displaced? That I will be easily moved aside so you can sit on Father's throne?" (VO: Anger and hostility; the speaker can also sound a little hurt at being betrayed)
1b-3a : Yes.
Trian: "Then they are fools, and you have been used." (VO: This should be a blunt declaration. He really believes this statement.) *Go to tree 3*
1b-3b: You've got it wrong, Trian. *Go to Trian's response in tree #2, line 5*
1b-3c: How dare you accuse me. *Go to Trian's response in tree #2, line 5*
1b-3d: Shut up and fight me.
Trian: "I am your prince. I will not fight you." (VO: Haughty and superior) *Go to tree 3*

1c. I'm going to kill you, Trian.
Trian: "So you admit your foul intentions? Brazen. But my men outnumber yours." (VO: This should be said with a lot of hostility. Sneering would be nice.) *Go to tree 3*

2. Hello, Trian.
Trian: "I'm here. I am not, however, unaware or outnumbered." (VO: Some disappointment and sadness, quite a
bit of bitterness.)
Trian: "Disappointed?"

2a. I'm going to kill you, Trian.
Trian: "So you admit your foul intentions? Brazen. But my men outnumber yours." (VO: This should be said with a lot of hostility. Sneering would be nice.) *Go to tree 3*

2b. What are you talking about?
Trian: "Do you think I fear to name your treachery?" (VO: Challenging, scornful) *Go to tree #2*

2c. Where's your signet ring, Trian? *Go to tree #1*

2d. You're a schemer, Trian, but I'm better than you.
Trian: "So you admit to scheming against me?" (VO: Speaker says this with a note of triumph, because his sibling has admitted that he was scheming) *Go to tree #2*

3. You and I need to speak. Alone.
Trian: "Anything you have to say can be said here, in front of our men." (VO: Serious, challenging.)

3a. Where's your signet ring, Trian? *Go to tree #1*

3b. You're a schemer, Trian, but I'm better than you.
Trian: "So you
admit to scheming against me?" (VO: Speaker says this with a note of
triumph, because his sibling has admitted that he was scheming) *Go
to tree #2*

3c. I'm going to kill you, Trian.
Trian: "So you admit your foul intentions? Brazen. But my men outnumber yours." (VO: This should be said with a lot of hostility. Sneering would be nice.) *Go to tree 3*

3d. You wish me to expose your plotting against me?
Trian: "You dare
accuse me of your own treachery?" (VO: Speaker is indignant and insulted
by the gall of his treacherous sibling.) *Go to tree 2*

4. You're brave to come here without more men.
Trian: "Why? Is there a reason I should fear my own kin?" (VO: Some disappointment and sadness, quite a bit of bitterness.)

4a. Where's your signet ring, Trian? *Go to tree #1*

4b. You're a schemer, Trian, but I'm better than you.
Trian: "So you
admit to scheming against me?" (VO: Speaker says this with a note of
triumph, because his sibling has admitted that he was scheming) *Go

to tree #2*

4c. I'm going to kill you, Trian.
Trian: "So you admit your foul intentions? Brazen. But my men outnumber yours." (VO: This should be said with a lot of hostility. Sneering would be nice.) *Go to tree 3*

4d. No, of course not. *Go to Trian's response in line 1b above*


TREE #1 -- "Where's your signet ring, Trian?"
Trian: "I... didn't wear it today. I didn't wish to risk losing it in battle." (VO: Speaker is caught off guard and is hurriedly trying to come up with an excuse for not having his ring.)

1. Likely story.
Trian: "Don't attempt to cast your dark shadows back on me." (VO: Speaker is insulted and indignant) *Go to tree 2*

2. You gave it to mercenaries so they could steal the shield.
Trian: "You dare accuse me of your own treachery?" (VO: Speaker is indignant and insulted by the gall of his treacherous sibling.) *Go to tree 2*

3. I am going to kill you, Trian.
Trian: "So you admit your foul intentions? Brazen. But my men outnumber yours." (VO: This should be said with a lot of hostility. Sneering would be nice.) *Go to tree 3*


TREE #2 -- "Do you think I fear to name your treachery?"
Trian: "You have plotted to murder me, so you could take my place as heir." (VO: Speaker says this accusingly, with a lot of scorn.)
Trian: "You convinced Bhelen to help take my men and me by surprise." (VO: Speaker says this accusingly, with a lot of scorn.)
Trian: "Do you deny it?" (VO: Challenging.)

1. You do have to admit it was a good plan.
Trian: "Throwing your and our family's honor in the fire of jealousy and power was a good idea?" (VO: Speaker expresses disapproval and disbelief at sibling's idiocy.)
Trian: "I am your prince and your elder brother! Every tradition, everything that makes us who we are, demands your loyalty to me!" (VO: Superior, commanding, haughty)*Go to tree 3*

2. It's just politics.
Trian: "Is that what you think this is? Some game?" (VO: Speaker expresses disapproval and disbelief at sibling's idiocy.)
Trian: "I am your prince and your elder brother! Every tradition, everything that makes us who we are, demands your loyalty to me!" (VO: Superior, commanding, haughty) *Go to tree 3*

3. You have no right to judge me, Trian.
Trian: "I have every right to judge you." (VO: Judgmental, disapproving.)
Trian: "I am your prince and your elder brother! Every tradition, everything that makes us who we are, demands your loyalty to me!" (VO: Superior, commanding, haughty) *Go to tree 3*

4. I'm just surprised you still came.
Trian: "I am a better warrior than you will ever be, girl/boy." (VO: Sneering, speaker is talking down to his sibling)
Trian: "Still, I will not give you the glory you so desire." (VO: Haughty, superior)
Trian: "I am your prince. I will not fight you." *Go to tree 3*

5. It's not true.
Trian: "Just stop. You have gone too far this time."
(IF: Dace_QuestComplete) Trian: "Selling your favor to Lord Dace, I could overlook." (VO: Scornful and sneering)
(IF: Provings_Fought) Trian: "Your grandstanding at the Provings, I could overlook." (VO: Scornful and sneering)
(IF: Dace_Beaten) Trian: "You showing off at the expense of elderly Lord Dace, I could overlook." (VO: Scornful and sneering)
(^all of above lines lead to:)
Trian: "That the nobles love you when you have accomplished nothing... this I have learned to forgive." (VO: Scornful and sneering)
Trian: "I know I will never be loved in Orzammar, but I will rule. Nothing, not even treacherous kin, will stop me from claiming my right." (VO: Speaker may be a little sad that he'll never be loved, but he believes he can be the strongest ruler of his people and this declaration should reflect his belief.) *Go to tree 3*


TREE #3  -- "Throw down your weapons and confess."
Trian: "You and your companions will throw down your weapons, confess your treason, and be tried in front of the Assembly." (VO: Speaker is commanding here, as though he does not expect argument.)

1. We will do no such thing.
Trian: "Then you will die here." (VO: Blunt declaration. No remorse.)
Trian: "May the Stone reject your unworthy, treacherous body." (VO: Absolute scorn, almost spitting. "The Stone" is said with a religious connotation -- may God reject you.)
Trian: "Kill the traitors!" (VO: This is a command to attack.) *End dialogue*

2. So arrogant, even at the end.
Trian: "It will be your end, Sister/Brother." (VO: Blunt declaration. No remorse.)
Trian: "May the Stone reject your unworthy, treacherous body." (VO: Absolute scorn, almost spitting. "The Stone" is said with a religious connotation -- may God reject you.)
Trian: "Kill the traitors!" (VO: This is a command to attack.) *End dialogue*

3. You're an idiot. *Attack*
Trian: "Kill the traitors!" (VO: This is a command to attack.) *End dialogue*

4. Very well, we surrender.
Gorim: "Are you sure you want to do this, my lady/lord?" (VO: Hesitant, unsure of what to do, respectful)

4a: It is the only way.
Scout: "Never! A warrior does not surrender meekly! Attack!" (VO: This should be said loudly, with a lot of conviction. Almost crazed.)
Trian: "Kill the traitors!" (VO: This is a command to attack.) *End dialogue*

4b. Now--while they're distracted. Attack!
Trian: "Kill the traitors!" (VO: This is a command to attack.) *End dialogue*

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Costin. Nice work. I like how you made Trian be a decent commander, who knows how to order men in the thick of battle. Well done!

[Gilsa]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

That was my initial take on things as well. Harden Alistair and have him take the throne. My only concern here is that she sees the whole caste system as a farce. She knows she's a capable warrior and proudly took her helmet off during the proving so people would know that very thing. So, from this perspective wouldn't making Alistair king be endorsing the caste system? I mean, if self determination is her primary motive, then she would want Alistair to determine who he is for himself and not let other people decide this for him?

I personally hate the hardening system for both Alistair and Leliana. Having said that, know the saying for give a man a fish, you fed him for a day, but teach him to fish, you've fed him for a lifetime? Cut the umbilical cord. They need to be self-sufficent without your warden. Your warden is going to go on to bigger adventures without them at your side and they should be able to function without you. Nobody looked out for Brosca except for Duncan and what happened to him? Duncan chose well in recruiting Brosca. Do the same for your companions and let them reach their full potential by hardening them.

That feedback probably doesn't help with your roleplay, sorry. I just really don't like the hardening system when it's limited to two random companions.

[Sarah1281]

Yeah, for Alistair it makes sense with the whole King thing but why Leliana?

[Gilsa]

I don't even get sparing Marjolaine. It somewhat irks me that I have to suggest to Leliana to kill her. Rather if I wanted to spare Marjolaine, I should talk Leliana OUT of killing her rather than tell her to kill the **** and then listen to her freak out afterwards knowing that ITS MY FAULT that I told Leliana in the first place. Imagine suggesting to Alistair that Loghain should be killed. Much better to try to talk him out of it and fail.

Edit: I liked this better in ME2 where I let my companions do what they wanted to do. It was their personal problem and they were dealing with it in their own way. I rarely did the paragon interrupt so I let Miranda shoot her friend. Her choice, not mine. They're adults.

Modifié par Gilsa, 17 juin 2010 - 05:05 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Maybe they attempted the whole Palpatine "Strike her down and your jounrey towards the dark side would be complete" vibe.

[Sarah1281]

I think it was Marjolaine's whole 'you're just like me' that had Leliana freaking out and trying to prove she wasn't by doing the anti-Marjolaine thing and not killing her.



And does Miranda express regrets over killing him later? I usually interrupt because the guy dies, like, two seconds later. And with Garrus he is the one who ultimately makes the decision to let the guy live, all I did was force him to hear the whole story first.

[Costin_Razvan]

Yeah I suppose that was fail.

 And does Miranda express regrets over killing him later?

She does in the elevator.

OT: So this new Overlord DLC, got it, played it, loved it....until I made the mistake of checking the ME 2 forums on the end choice of that DLC....if my opinion of humanity can drop even lower then it certainly has.

So the whole DLC has you go to a top secret Cerberus base, where a rogue AI has taken over it. What you learn at the end is that the AI was in fact a human/VI hybrid, and the human was in fact the main researcher's autistic brother, and the choice was whether to free him, or allow Cerberus to continue their experiments....I choose to allow Cerberus though I did agree Shepard elbowing the project lead for the **** he had done.

But from what you read on the ME2 forums, you have to be a complete dick to not free him, Aha, pardon me if I don't give a **** about one guy when I have trillions of lives at stake.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 17 juin 2010 - 05:16 .

[Sarah1281]

Well, remember that there is a 'bastard' in 'magnificent bastard.'

[Gilsa]

Miranda: "Which means you're the only loose end. This isn't how I wanted it to end, Niket. I'm going to miss you ..."
(Paragon interupt flashes and gets ignored.)
Miranda: " ... figuratively speaking." (she says this after she shoots him)
(Later in elevator)
Miranda: "I can't believe Niket sold me out. I didn't even see it coming."

1. You couldn't have.
2. Live and learn.
Shepard: "Everyone makes mistakes. I'm guessing that's one you won't repeat."
Miranda: "Why did he make me kill him? He could have run. He could have lied about having the data stored somewhere."
Miranda: "But he just stood there, the only loose end. He knew what I'd have to do."
1. He felt guilty.
2. He thought you wouldn't do it.
3. Don't blame yourself.
4. Come on.
Shepard: "Maybe some part of him regretted what he did, and he wanted to atone somehow."
Miranda: "You atone by fixing your mistakes, not by committing suicide."
1. Don't blame yourself.
2. Come on.
Shepard: "You did what you had to do, Miranda. You're not responsible for his death."
Miranda: "Of course I am. But it's not my fault. It's not even Niket's, really. My father takes the blame ... for all of this."
Miranda: "It's always been like this. My father gave me anything I ever wanted, but there was always a hook, an angle for his long term plan."
Miranda: "I threw away everything he ever gave me when I ran. Except Niket. Weakness on my part."
1. That's not healthy.
2. Is Niket the last loose end?
3. You kept your sister.
4. Come on.
Shepard: "You still have Oriana."
Miranda: "My father didn't give her to me. I rescued her."
Miranda: "But ... yes. You're right. I still have something. Thank you."

[Costin_Razvan]

How are you able to get the ME2 dialogue Gilsa?