11146 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

Gilsa wrote...

Oh, good find about Wojech. Interesting.

Hey, I'm curious what happens to a casteless when they die. I just had to ask Alistair if he wanted to talk about Duncan and it led him to asking about our burial customs. Sure, dwarves entomb their dead in thaigs, but that doesn't apply to casteless, does it?

 I thought they just threw them in the lava but I'm not sure if that's canon or just fanon. It makes sense though, right? As casteless they are deemed unworthy of a buriel (unless they join the Legion) and they find burning their dead to be ridiculous but the lava's right there so why not? 

Modifié par Sarah1281, 24 juin 2010 - 06:52 .

[Gilsa]

Ooh, that's right. There have been references to swimming in the lava. Wow, that's a really convenient way to dispose of the unwanted.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I find it hard to believe that the casteless would throw their own into the lava. Just like I would be surprised to see the other dwarves wasting their time doing it. The casteless are considered nobodies. Non-existant. Orzammar doesn't care how they live, let alone how they are burried.

[soignee]

Gilsa wrote...



Now this is the part where I'm wondering how casteless bury their dead because then it'd help me envision if she'd go back and get Leske's body or let the guards dispose of it since there's nowhere to put him.

I ****ing buried Leske in my canon. HE DESERVED IT:

"Missa I'm sorry. I'm so sorry," Alistair said, hands over his mouth. "I just- he was going to- I'm sorry."

Missa looked up, unaware her feet had walked her over to the still corpse of her old friend, kneeling carefully by his bleeding body. Gently she closed his eyes, then placed his hands to his chest over his wound. Leske's cooling blood stained her gloves, a dark red on her fingertips.

"Atrasta nal tunsha, salroka."

Feet appeared by her side and tugged her up."Come, Missa. We must go." Zevran lifted her from her underarms and she elbowed him away.

"I can't leave him like this. It is a matter of respect. If that even means anything to you."

It was Sten who approached her then. "What do your people do with the bodies of your dead, Warden?"

She looked up at the qunari, trying to work out his motives. "We put them underground so they can become Stone. Bury them. If you're not a worthless duster, anyhow." Missa knew the guards would only shove the corpses into the lava, a wordless funeral. She couldn't let that happen to Leske, despite the betrayal.

Sten looked around. "The room with all the treasure we passed should suffice. We can seal it up after."

Wordlessly the Qunari lifted her dead friend from the floor, scooping him up as easily as a child. Missa followed and as Sten placed the body over a pile of sacks, she covered it with a sheath of surfacer silks.There was no need for words, she already said them. Shale pounded the entrance with fists of stone and dust and rock settled around it, finally sealed off.

Somewhere maybe the ancestor's would forgive both her and Leske; because she could not, not
yet.

NO LAVA FOR LESKE >:|

Modifié par soignee, 24 juin 2010 - 11:11 .

[Corker]

@KoP: It's sure not canon, but I have this hunch that the casteless would be identified with gangue, the corruption in the Stone.  They're criminals and honorless, after all.  If that's the case, there could be a religious reason to keep them from burial - it prevents their souls from returning to the Stone and forming more gangue.

[soignee]

Corker wrote...

@KoP: It's sure not canon, but I have this hunch that the casteless would be identified with gangue, the corruption in the Stone.  They're criminals and honorless, after all.  If that's the case, there could be a religious reason to keep them from burial - it prevents their souls from returning to the Stone and forming more gangue.

See I read this as the casteless being lumped in with the darkspawn and that's kind of ****ty, really. Gangue= darkspawn imo, but like all good religions things get twisted and the casteless get tarred with the same brush.

[soignee]

loldblpost

Modifié par soignee, 24 juin 2010 - 12:13 .

[Corker]

soignee wrote...

See I read this as the casteless being lumped in with the darkspawn and that's kind of ****ty, really. Gangue= darkspawn imo, but like all good religions things get twisted and the casteless get tarred with the same brush.

I am having an epic facepalm moment, as I somehow totally missed that the obvious reading is gangue = darkspawn.

...but with Orzammar's Shaper telling a DC to her branded face that it'd be better if casteless had never been born... there seems to be emotion past indifference there. 

Back In The Day, suicides couldn't be buried in churchyards for theological reasons.  I really suspect there would be something similar regarding the internment of casteless.

[Herr Uhl]

Corker wrote...

soignee wrote...

See I read this as the casteless being lumped in with the darkspawn and that's kind of ****ty, really. Gangue= darkspawn imo, but like all good religions things get twisted and the casteless get tarred with the same brush.

I am having an epic facepalm moment, as I somehow totally missed that the obvious reading is gangue = darkspawn.

...but with Orzammar's Shaper telling a DC to her branded face that it'd be better if casteless had never been born... there seems to be emotion past indifference there. 

Back In The Day, suicides couldn't be buried in churchyards for theological reasons.  I really suspect there would be something similar regarding the internment of casteless.

Unworthy dwarves make the stone weaker, and the casteless are unworthy by definition.

For every casteless that lives the stone gets a little bit weaker.

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I find it hard to believe that the casteless would throw their own into the lava. Just like I would be surprised to see the other dwarves wasting their time doing it. The casteless are considered nobodies. Non-existant. Orzammar doesn't care how they live, let alone how they are burried.

Well what else would be done with them? They probably won't just leave them in the streets to rot if only because of the smell when they start decomposing.

[soignee]

yeah. lava makes sense. Quick and easy way to dispose of the unwanted dead, and at that heat nothing would be left.

Modifié par soignee, 24 juin 2010 - 01:34 .

[Gilsa]

Soignee, that was brilliant how you got Shale to seal Leske in a room like that.

Edit: I love my nobles, but there's just this element of excitement and a little bit of soul searching when you play a casteless. Missed playing a commoner!

Modifié par Gilsa, 24 juin 2010 - 04:46 .

[soignee]

or, you know, you just get FKING ANGRY WITH THE WORLD and channel it... Ah, angst.

[Sarah1281]

soignee wrote...

or, you know, you just get FKING ANGRY WITH THE WORLD and channel it... Ah, angst.

If you're really dedicated then you can be angry at the world no matter what your origin.
HN: Howe killed my family including my adorable little nephew!

Mage: Jowan is such a freaking moron! Why did I get dragged into this?/Jowan deserves better! I can't believe Irving did this! Must smash Templars!

DE: I can't believe Tamlen touched that mirror even though I told him not to and now my clan ditched me and I'm forced to spend all my time with Shems!
 
CE: I can't believe that that bastard kidnapped me and the others on my wedding day, raped my cousin, and now I'm the bad guy for kiling him! Plus Shems are everywhere and they won't let up on their elf fetish! 

DN: Bhelen ruined my life and is going to die as well as everyone else who is taking advantage of my legal problems to **** at me.

[Sarah1281]

So just as the DN origin can mention the DC one I found people in the DC origin talking about the DN.

Person on the street: They say the King favors his middle son. He may even name him his successor in the Assembly.



Guatrd: I assume this worthless pile of junk belongs to you? Do you realize it's in the way and that the aptrols will not be able to come through? Move it, or I shall have it thrown out in the Deep Roads, and you with it!

Merchant: I'm so sorry, m-my lord, b-but they told me to move my goods over here. I...I couldn't even set up shop in my usual place.

Guard. Nonsense.

Merchant: It's true! Th-they said the...the servants needed to polish the floors of that side of the Commons, in preparation for the new commander's first commission!

Guard: Hmm, yes...the new Aeducan commander's feast is tomorrow, isn't it? *sigh* I suppose it can't be helped then. Very well. You may leave your goods here for now, merchant. But move them out of the way as soon as you can.



Merchant: Hmph. Who does that Aeducan commander think he is, stopping commerce just to have the floors cleaned? (VO: Grumpy)

Merchant: *sigh* I wish I was important enough that people would polish the floors before I walked on them.



Casteless: I saw Prince Bhelen yesterday. He wore violet silk and he smelled like fresh water. He smiled at me. (VO: Dreamy)



And then of course, there's this.

Beraht: The King is old. His rule won't hold much longer. (VO: Serious, conspiratorial)

Jarvia: Prince Bhelen seems far mroe sympathetic to our interests than Trian (VO: Conspiratory -- they are talking about assassinating a Prince)

Beraht: Bhelen has some tastes of his own that he knows I can provide -- We'll finish this later. (VO: Smugly, then notices the player is here and gets cold)



One thing I'm confused about, though, is how long was the interval between the DC and DN origin. We know the DC origin happened first but in the DN origin the Proving Trainer says that 'last week' the DC almost won the Proving (almost because right before the final fight Everd stumbled in) but in the DC origin they talk about how the next day was the DN feast.

[Costin_Razvan]

Might have been the DC Origin happened on a Sunday and the Feast was on a Monday.

[Cypher0020]

O_O



you guys are good... I never would have caught that.



Do people recognize the DN when you go into dust town? I can't imagine a warm welcome....

[Giggles_Manically]

No you dont get recognized at all. Not even Jarvia called me on it, if I remeber.

[Gilsa]

There does seem to be a significant time difference between the events of DN and DC. If the DC proving was the week before, then that would have meant Duncan was already there and was impressed by that DC and found his recruit. I don't see him making it to Ostagar and back in time for the king's feast. I didn't really dwell on it -- I just appreciated that they took the trouble to acknowledge the other dwarf origin.

Modifié par Gilsa, 24 juin 2010 - 07:17 .

[Sarah1281]

Since if you forego entering the Proving to talk to the trainer he, Gorim, and you just stand around for awhile trying to figure out where the DC learned to fight as she's casteless, I highly doubt that the DN has ever been to Dust Town and don' see casteless very often since 'their presence is an insult' or something like that. As such, even if there was a portrait of the DN the casteless would never see it and so probably wouldn't know who you are.

[thegreateski]

Well . . . even if they DO remember you . . . you don't really exist anymore.



I doubt the Casteless would be able to pick any member of the royal family out of a crowd (mentioned when talking to King Cailan).

[Sarah1281]

Gilsa wrote...

There does seem to be a significant time difference between the events of DN and DC. I didn't dwell on it. If the DC proving was the week before, then that would have meant Duncan was already there and was impressed by that DC and found his recruit. I don't see him making it to Ostagar and back in time for the king's feast. I didn't really dwell on it -- I just appreciated that they took the trouble to acknowledge the other dwarf origin.

If it was only the next day, though, then it might not be a problem. Duncan shows up to check the Deep Roads for signs of a Blight and to hopefully find a recruit. If he saves the DC then she'd either go with him on the expedition or (more likely) she would be waiting for him either in the GW rooms or outside of the city gates as two days isn't all that long and Duncan won't just leave one of his objectives unfulfilled simply because he has a recruit.

[Gilsa]

@soignee -- I walked back through all of Jarvia's hideout to see what resources I had for burying Leske. The best I could come up with is taking one of the tapestries to wrap him in. Since I was theoretically doing this alone (my first treaty, all companions are mostly neutral, no one strong enough to cave in a room =p), my two choices were to lay him on one of the beds and leave him there or lower him into one of those pits where you can find the tame animals. That way it's too deep for anyone to find his body and move it. Yes, I know I have a limited imagination. I have no idea where King Endrin is buried if my DN wanted to pay her respects.

[Sarah1281]

thegreateski wrote...

Well . . . even if they DO remember you . . . you don't really exist anymore.

I doubt the Casteless would be able to pick any member of the royal family out of a crowd (mentioned when talking to King Cailan).

Lady Dace and the Shaper are the only ones who acknowledge that they know who you are but are pretending not to because of your legal status. Lady Dace does it probably because she's a **** and the Shaper is directly below the King and HAS to follow the records exactly. I think they reported you dead instead of just deleting your existence as that's what Lady Dace and I think someone else said. It's certainly less cognitive dissonance to go 'yeah, so DN killed Trian and then was executed' instead of 'so Trian just dropped dead of his own accord.'

It actually surprised me that some people still call you 'your Highness' even though you're supposed to be dead. Gwidon, for instance, is incredibly flustered and if you tell him that it's on your authority that Harrowmont's not conceding then you don't even need a persuade check like you do if you tell him Dulin says so (+3) or Harrowmont (+5). He says that you look like your father and just automatically takes your word for it.

[thegreateski]

All these fuzzy feelings for Leske . . . sadly for him my DC was still a jerkass when I did the Dwarf treaty. Looted his corpse and left it for the deepstalkers.



*shake head*