11146 réponses à ce sujet

[Radahldo]

soignee wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

So DNM jr isnt branded? Why is that? Months pass and it isnt until the DN shows up that the situation can be rectified.

How old are casteless when they are branded? The child would be three months old or so by the time the DN came back so if the branding occured at, say, the six month or one year mark then it wouldn't have happened yet. Not to mention there was still the uncertainty about who the father was and thus the caste of the child.

I think we're in the grey area of OH FECK THERE'S NO LORE WRITTEN ABOUT IT here, and barrel scraping through codexes and stuff. I would guess the brand thing would be as soon as it was born, surely... or else children could be passed off too easily into another caste.

I really should get around to buying the Dragon Age RPG book...

I assumed it was from the moment they were born. I think some say "the moment were are born" but they probably were just being dramatic. I would imagine casteless babies aren't even allowed to be delievered in the same section of Orzammar.

Heres what I think happened

Mardy has DN jr is an Aeduncan-sponsored hospital.

Hospital keeps baby, Mardy recuperates.

DN is exiled, no longer exists, all of that

Mardy is given baby back, protests; when she goes: "But he's  ___ son!"  it falls on deaf ears since the DN nolonger exists as far as Aeducan is concearned.

If he doesnt have a brand,I don'tt understand why it's such a slow moving process. Months have passed. Moreover, since it's the Exiles son, there isn't anyway the situation can change unless with the DN's intervention.
 So, why not just brand the baby, since there are no other options for it? 

[Sarah1281]

Does parting on bad terms affect anything when you come back?

I would imagine casteless babies aren't even allowed to be delievered in the same section of Orzammar.



Heres what I think happened



Mardy has DN jr is an Aeduncan-sponsored hospital.

But there's no way to tell if the baby is casteless or not until it's born as they don't know how to tell genders prior to birth. And if you listen to Bhelen Mardy apparently came to House Aeducan claiming her son was one of them but didn't mention whose. Considering the DN's legal status at the time, that was probably a good move. Since she couldn't name a father, she was thrown out.

[Radahldo]

I would just think they would give her a higher level of medical attention just to insure nothing goes wrong medically during whatever months of pregnancy, and the actual birthing.



Would it all really be left up in the air until the moment they determine the childs sex?

[Sarah1281]

I don't think they have any 'noble hunter' standard treatment plan but it's up to the father to ensure that the mother gets what she needs although she likely would not be moved into their household until the later stages of pregnancy at the earliest.

[Gilsa]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Does parting on bad terms affect anything when you come back?

As far as I can tell ... you just get a different greeting from Harrowmont when you return. No big deal. There is one small comment off to the side that says:

(IF: Left_On_Good_Terms) Harrowmont: "Your father missed you sorely in his final days." (Note: I can't find the plot flag for this, was it removed? Checking the conv, there is no flag set for this condition, but he rewards based on it so I will use that.)

Soooo I'm just spectulating, based on hunch, that this might have contributed towards being able to get King Endrin's mace once Harrowmont is on the throne.

I am still going to put up the dialogue tree for when you return to Harrowmont. It's a bit covoluted so it'll take me a bit to wade through it.

[Cypher0020]

Yaaaaay for more wonderful dialogue from the awesome Gilsa!

[thegreateski]

I wonder if anyone is working on a mod that allows the DN to take the throne?

[Sarah1281]

I wonder if anyone is working on a mod that allows the DN to take the throne?

They would need to appoint a regent they could trust to NOT steal power while they're off stopping the Blight and Gorim's busy in Denerim.

[thegreateski]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I wonder if anyone is working on a mod that allows the DN to take the throne?

They would need to appoint a regent they could trust to NOT steal power while they're off stopping the Blight and Gorim's busy in Denerim.

Harrowmont seems trustworthy . . . even if he is a traditionalist moron.

Modifié par thegreateski, 12 avril 2010 - 05:27 .

[Sarah1281]

I suppose that traditionally regents don't openly refuse to hand power back to the actual monarch as it would be dishonorable and he's old enough that the few months he has to run things and put down Bhelen's rebellion while you're off becoming the Hero of Ferelden should convince him he didn't really want the job.

[thegreateski]

Ah. The road not taken.

Damn you plot!

Damn you and your king killing, Archdemon slaying ways!

Modifié par thegreateski, 12 avril 2010 - 05:47 .

[Urshakk]

Gilsa wrote...

As far as I can tell ... you just get a different greeting from Harrowmont when you return. No big deal. There is one small comment off to the side that says:

(IF: Left_On_Good_Terms) Harrowmont: "Your father missed you sorely in his final days." (Note: I can't find the plot flag for this, was it removed? Checking the conv, there is no flag set for this condition, but he rewards based on it so I will use that.)

Soooo I'm just spectulating, based on hunch, that this might have contributed towards being able to get King Endrin's mace once Harrowmont is on the throne.

My dwarf noble was framed by Bhelen (refused to kill Trian) and left for the deep roads with the "good terms" flag set on Harrowmont. i.e. "No, I did not kill him" and he gave me the blade. So I got this greeting when I returned to Orzammar and I helped him take the throne. But the reward didn't change, I still got his staff and I did everything as anti-Bhelen, pro-Harrowmont as you can. I think those rewards are just plain bugged or were just removed.

[Gilsa]

(IF: Noble_Dwarf)

(IF: Left_On_Good_Terms) Harrowmont: "Your father missed you sorely in his final days." (VO: Overjoyed, but quietly so.)
(IF: Player_Confessed) Harrowmont: "I must say, after your parting words, I did not expect to see you again. Whatever your role in Trian's death, I cannot believe Bhelen is guiltless." (VO: Cautious, but pleased)
Harrowmont: "I am glad you found a new place among the Grey Wardens." (VO: Sincere)

1. So you're going to give me my troops?
Harrowmont: "It is hard to consider the threat of darkspawn on the surface when all we see is them retreating from our gates." (VO: apologetic) *Go to tree 2*

2. All I want is your support against the Blight. *Go to tree 1, line 1*

3. How did my father die?
Harrowmont: "Of a broken heart, in my view. Some say Bhelen poisoned him, but I never left Endrin's side, and I don't see how." (VO: Sadly)
Harrowmont: "Bhelen *did* kill him, but only by what he did to you." (VO: Sad)
3a. All I want is your support against the Blight. *Go to tree 1, line 1*
3b. Is it true my father wished you to be his heir? *Go to tree 1, line 2*
3c. Bhelen says you're trying to usurp House Aeducan's rights. *Go to line 5*

4. Is it true my father wished you to be his heir? *Go to tree 1, line 2*

5. Bhelen says you're trying to usurp House Aeducan's rights.
Harrowmont: "House Aeducan ruled for nine generations through talent and honor, not by right." (VO: proud)
Harrowmont: "It is the Assembly who makes a king, and a king who nominates his successor. None of it is carried in the blood." (VO: firm)
5a. All I want is your support against the Blight. *Go to tree 1, line 1*
5b. Father would have wanted me to rule.
Harrowmont: "Once I would have agreed, but that caravan has long gone. House Aeducan struck your name from its records." (VO: Regretful, supportive)
Harrowmont:: "If you went before the Assembly now, you would be a casteless surfacer, with no support in Orzammar." (VO: Supportive, but regretful) *Go to tree 1*
5c. Is it true my father wished you to be his heir? *Go to tree 1, line 2*
5d. You believe you'd be a better king than Bhelen? *Go to tree 1, line 3*

TREE 1
1. All I want is your support against the Blight.
Harrowmont: "For us, the darkspawn are a constant menace, so a Blight may not elicit the same urgency you are used to." (VO: apologetic)  *Go to tree 2*

2. Is it true my father wished you to be his heir?
Harrowmont: "He knew what a poor king Bhelen would make; he saw it sooner than the rest of us." (VO: Sorrowful)
Harrowmont: "One of his last requests was that I carry out his wishes as Orzammar's next king. It was the
greatest honor of my life." (VO: Proud, but sad)
2a. All I want is your support against the Blight. *Go to tree 1, line 1*
2b. Bhelen says you're trying to usurp House Aeducan's rights. *Go to line 5 on top*
2c. You believe you'd be a better king than Bhelen? *Go to tree 1, line 3*

3. You believe you'd be a better king than Bhelen?
Harrowmont: "I have never sought the throne. My role was to serve Endrin, first as his advisor, then as an elected deshyr in the Assembly." (VO: quietly proud)
Harrowmont: "A Harrowmont has never been king and I always assumed Trian would rule after his father." (VO: quietly proud)
Harrowmont: "But both Endrin and my colleagues have asked me to step up, and I will not back down when Orzammar needs me." (VO: firm)
3a. Just spit out what I need to do to get your help as king.  *Go to tree 2*
3b. The Assembly has more power than the king?
Harrowmont: "The Assembly represents the voices of the wisest, most noble families." (VO: proud)
Harrowmont: "While we need a single king to preside over important functions and lead us in battle, the Assembly better represents all in Orzammar."
--Just spit out what I need to do to get your help as king. *Go to tree 2*
--Bhelen says you're too weak to be king. *Go to tree 1, 3c*
--All I want is your support against the Blight. *Go to tree 1, line 1*
(IF: Talked_ToBhelen) 3c. Bhelen says you're too weak to be king.
Harrowmont: "That is exactly why Endrin did not want Bhelen on the throne. To be king is not a position of strength, it is a position of respect." (VO: Disappointed in player's reasoning)
Harrowmont: "In Orzammar, the Assembly makes the laws. The king must respect that. Fighting between king and Assembly has ever boded ill." (VO: cautioning)
--Just spit out what I need to do to get your help as king. *Go to tree 2*
--The Assembly has more power than the king? *Go to tree 1, line 3b*
--All I want is your support against the Blight. *Go to tree 1, line 1*
3d. All I want is your support against the Blight. *Go to tree 1, line 1*

TREE 2
Harrowmont: "Ultimately, the Assembly decides what troops to send. If they no longer fear civil war, they'll have no reason to hold back."
Harrowmont: "If you want my support to count, I will have to be king, and right now, there is no sure way to get there."
Harrowmont: "Have you heard of a woman named Jarvia and the criminal carta she runs?"

1. I take them out, you take the credit? Is that the plan?
2. The gang of casteless, yes.
3. No.
(IF: Dwarf Commoner) 4. You could say we... have some history.
5. What about them?

OK, there is nothing remotely interesting once you get into the Jarvia dialogue tree. It keeps going, but it's not noble specific. The DN can bring up his son at this point to Harrowmont if he chooses (the conversation was covered earlier in this thread) and the DC can mention Rica (already covered). Then accept the quest or tell him you need to think about it. That's it.

Modifié par Gilsa, 12 avril 2010 - 06:46 .

[Gilsa]

I was checking out the Provings in the Toolkit and saw the male DN version of round 2 (if your character decides to participate in your own provings). Has anyone gone the "offended" route? What happened? I see the flag change, but I have no idea what it leads to or where to start looking for consequences.

Round 2: Adal Helmi, eldest daughter of Lady Helmi
(IF: Female)
FemDN: "Who is my next opponent?"
Proving Master: "Adal Helmi. Another female warrior, and a tenacious fighter."
1. Good. It will be an interesting fight.
2. I need to rest first.

When the match begins:
Adal Helmi: "You are my inspiration, your Highness, and to all of us who follow your example and live by the sword." (VO: Respectful, awed)
1. Thank you.
2. Be proud of getting this far.
3. I'm going to slaughter you.
(IF: Victory) Proving Master: "That was a crowd-pleaser. I can't remember the last time we had two female warriors of such skill."


(IF: Male)
MaleDN: "Who is my next opponent?"
Proving Master: "Adal Helmi. A... a woman, your Highness. She's a tenacious fighter." (VO: Hesitant, speaker seems afraid to say this.)
1. I'll fight anyone.
2. You let a woman fight in the Proving in my honor?
Proving Master: "It was not my idea. Lady Helmi was most insistent. I did not expect her to actually win her first match. Will you fight her?" (VO: Speaker is trying not to push blame around.)
2a. If I have to.
2b. Why not? Should be easy.
2c. No. I'm done with this Proving.
Proving Master: "Please forgive me, your Highness. I never meant to cause offense." (SET: Provings_Offended) *End dialogue*
3. Yes, but I must rest first.

When the match begins:
Adal Helmi: "Honor and glory to your house, your Highness." (VO: Respectful)
1. There is no honor in fighting a woman.
2. And to yours.
3. I'm going to slaughter you.
(IF: Victory) Proving Master: "That was a crowd-pleaser. Many were waiting to see that woman put in her place."

Modifié par Gilsa, 12 avril 2010 - 09:41 .

[Gilsa]

EXTRA EXTRA: BROSCA SCANDAL

(Gossip about the awesomeness of Brosca in the DN origin!)

Proving Trainer: "Greetings, Lady/Lord Aeducan. Are you enjoying the Proving so far?"
DN: "I always enjoy watching a good fight."
Proving Trainer: "Your presence will inspire these fighters to even greater effort."
Gorim: "This is the lead trainer of the Provings, my lady/lord." (VO: Formal introduction)
Gorim: "He teaches nobles from lower houses without their own trainers and the best young men from the Warrior Caste." (VO: Speaker tries to put this in a very positive light.)
----
1. He does Orzammar a great service.
Proving Trainer: "You are too kind."

2. Did he teach you Gorim?
Gorim: "*Ahem* No. My father thought it was a waste to study duel-style combat, as I was pledged to be your second." (VO: Speaker may seem a little embarrassed that he was never trained to duel because he was meant for another position.)
Proving Trainer: "However, Ser Gorim has helped teach many classes on small-scale tactics, especially shield work." (VO: Speaker is being complimentary of Gorim's knowledge of battle strategies.)
---

Proving Trainer: "Did the two of you hear about the scandal here last week?" (VO: Gossipy)
Gorim: "We have been preparing for tomorrow's battle, and have had little time for gossip." (VO: Curt, perhaps disapproval at being asked to gossip.)
DN: "I'm curious. What scandal?"
Proving Trainer: "The Grey Wardens are in Orzammar searching for recruits, so the Warrior Caste arranged a Proving." (VO: Excited recounting of tale.)
Proving Trainer: "The goal was for the Grey Wardens to recruit the winner, bringing him honor and a chance for glory."
DN: "I take it that didn't happen?"
Proving Trainer: "Well, yes and no. It was like nothing I'd ever seen."
Proving Trainer: "Ser Everd, fresh from fighting darkspawn, got dead drunk before the Proving."
Proving Trainer: "Then some casteless bruiser took Ser Everd's armor, wore it, and won the Proving!"
---
1. Ha, good for him.
Gorim: "Lady/Lord Aeducan likes to see the world shaken up." (VO: Amused)
Proving Trainer: "Well, shake up the world it did." (VO: Disapproval)

2. That's an outrage!
Proving Trainer: "You're telling me. The Proving master had to be bodily restrained." (VO: Glee)

3. What happened?
---
Proving Trainer: "They took the imposter to jail, I assume to be thrown into the Deep Roads as meat for the darkspawn." (VO: Glee and delight)
Proving Trainer: "The Warrior Caste is in an uproar. An incident like this raises many questions." (VO: Thoughtful)
DN: "What kind of questions?"
Proving Trainer: "Well, how the brand got in here to begin with." (VO: Disgusted. face-brand=ethnic slur.  brand=condescending, rude)
Gorim: "Or how a casteless learned to fight like that. They aren't even allowed to possess weapons." (VO: Incredulous)
Proving Trainer: "I've heard they fight in the slums with the old cast-offs. I'm almost curious to see." (VO: Thoughtful)
Gorim: "I doubt King Endrin would approve of that." (VO: Sounds disgusted)
Proving Trainer: "Ha! I suppose not. All right, I have to go check on the fighters." (VO: Friendly, warm, coridal. Joking.)
Proving Trainer: "It was an honor to speak with you, your Highness." (VO: Polite)
DN: "A pleasure, ser."
Proving Trainer: "My thanks. Ser Gorim, I'll see you later. Good luck tomorrow, the both of you." (VO: Polite)

Modifié par Gilsa, 12 avril 2010 - 08:15 .

[Herr Uhl]

Gotta love that you can be a sexist pig as a male dwarf noble. It has such great potential for being an utter and complete douche.



And it seems Gorim hasn't been to the slums either.

[soignee]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Gotta love that you can be a sexist pig as a male dwarf noble. It has such great potential for being an utter and complete douche.

And it seems Gorim hasn't been to the slums either.

One day I will playa douche character. I tried on my mahariel, I really did. All I did was make him shouty at religious people and take the YOUR RELIGION MEANS NOTHING TO ME, SHEM options when they came up :-/

[Herr Uhl]

soignee wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Gotta love that you can be a sexist pig as a male dwarf noble. It has such great potential for being an utter and complete douche.

And it seems Gorim hasn't been to the slums either.

One day I will playa douche character. I tried on my mahariel, I really did. All I did was make him shouty at religious people and take the YOUR RELIGION MEANS NOTHING TO ME, SHEM options when they came up :-/

That is the whiny [female canine] route, not the douche one. The douche must do what he does in a calm fashion and be smug about it to have the maximal effect. For example, saying that you just tried the goods when you sleep with Geyna is a douche option whereas threatening everyone with a dagger makes you a psycho. Channel Sten and Teagan, put out Velanna and the dalish in general.

I have contemplated this way too much.

[soignee]

Yeah, my Mahariel was more unhinged then a pyscho. Too much taint. He liked violence a litttttleeee too much too.

[MutantSpleen]

Currently taking my Brosca through the Deep Roads, working for Bhelen. Unless you had some RP reason as to hating Rica, I can't see why you would not go with Bhelen. Heck, Bhelen is the only good choice for either origin, IMO. Funny thing is you get treated much better coming home to Orzammar as DC than the exile DN.

PS: One thing that pisses me off though is how much the game forces you to Harrowmont. Almost every conversation lets you say something crappy about Bhelen or at best something neutral, and when you talk to Bhelen you can hardly be nice to him.  How about a little less biased dialouge for us that support Bhelen and are happy for Rica?

Modifié par MutantSpleen, 12 avril 2010 - 12:50 .

[soignee]

MutantSpleen wrote...

Currently taking my Brosca through the Deep Roads, working for Bhelen. Unless you had some RP reason as to hating Rica, I can't see why you would not go with Bhelen. Heck, Bhelen is the only good choice for either origin, IMO. Funny thing is you get treated much better coming home to Orzammar as DC than the exile DN.

PS: One thing that pisses me off though is how much the game forces you to Harrowmont. Almost every conversation lets you say something crappy about Bhelen or at best something neutral, and when you talk to Bhelen you can hardly be nice to him.  How about a little less biased dialouge for us that support Bhelen and are happy for Rica?

Really? I was treated like shizen on my DC-- called brand to my face, etc. The most memorable one was the merchant who you save from Jarvia flunkies and the way he reacts to you after. Oyvey.

[MutantSpleen]

Yeah I see it occasionally but, but I don't get "Why do you dishonor us with your return Exile!" every 5 seconds. But yes I occasionally get called a Brand but its not like in the origin story where everyone practically spits on you. So relatively you get treated much better than your used to as a DC Grey Warden than as a DN Warden.

[Costin_Razvan]

hah, my Mahariel was the biggest douche in the game.



"Sten, rip his arms off."

[Sarah1281]

Proving Master: "Adal Helmi. A... a woman, your Highness. She's a tenacious fighter." (VO: Hesitant, speaker seems afraid to say this.)
Proving Master: "It was not my idea. Lady Helmi was most insistent. I did not expect her to actually win her first match. Will you fight her?" (VO: Speaker is trying not to push blame around.)
(IF: Victory) Proving Master: "That was a crowd-pleaser. Many were waiting to see that woman put in her place."

Okay, this definitely raises some questions. Was anyone waiting for the DNF to be 'put in her place'? Did she have to deal with people saying that or did most people hold off because she was a Princess and could have them put to death? Stupid Proving Master, was he actually rooting against you the whole time and didn't expect you to win your first match let alone your entire proving? I like Adal Helmi. She doesn't try to influence your decision as to succession and she's a serious fighter, which my Wardens can definitely respect. If I ever get through a DNM and she's still single at the end when he returns to Orzammar, he's definitely going to try to work something out there.

Yeah I see it occasionally but, but I don't get "Why do you dishonor us with your return Exile!" every 5 seconds. But yes I occasionally get called a Brand but its not like in the origin story where everyone practically spits on you. 

Most of the people who say that to the DN are Bhelen's supporters who figure you're pretty much guaranteed to work with Harrowmont. On the other hand, since Rica's the DC sister there's a better chance you'll side with Bhelen so his more vocal and insulting supporters won't necessarily say anything. It did come out where you least expect it, like when I was talking to one of the guards to the mines.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 12 avril 2010 - 06:13 .

[soignee]

Yeah. lady Helmi is pretty cool. Is is sad I remember her hair the most? It is, isn't it... She had the cool braided bun thing that must be a pain in the butt to maintain...