11146 réponses à ce sujet

[soignee]

Gilsa wrote...

Cypher0020 wrote...

Gilsa... you pair your dwarves with humans? I finally got one of mine to romance Zev.....

I pair them with all the romantic companions. Leliana was the only one I hadn't finished all the way to the end.

can't bring myself to make an "alt" brosca or aeducan, I got my canon settings.  I need to find something for Leliana, she's always shoved at camp when I play.

>.>
<.<

[Gilsa]

I make my extra dwarves very different from my canon Aeducan and Brosca and plan out their stories so it doesn't feel the same. I just enjoy playing dwarves a lot and I'm not going to say no to having extra dwarven avatars to rotate through. It's like playing virtual barbie dolls, only with dwaaaarves. =p



Besides I want to know wtf I'm talking about if someone says, "Ew, dwarf. Why pair dwarf with (romantic companion)?" And I can legitimately come up with reasons for why they'd pair up. It was easy to pair up my elves with Zevran for the excuse of not wanting to be bred out of existence or because of shemlen mistrust, but with a dwarf, Zev was just one of the guys. He understood their humor and rolled with the punches. Motivations were just different. I'd like to see what it's like as a dwarf with Leliana this time.

[Gilsa]

BTW, this is also the first time I've kept Gorim on friend-status. I AM MAKING A SACRIFICE HERE!

[Sarah1281]

Gilsa wrote...

BTW, this is also the first time I've kept Gorim on friend-status. I AM MAKING A SACRIFICE HERE!

As long as you don't go the humbled route. I tried that once just for the Origin and it was so depressing!

When my dwarves stay single it's not a matter of 'ew, why would I want a dwarf with ____' but 'ew, why would I want my dwarf with a human/elf.'

[Lady Jess]

Gilsa wrote...

BTW, this is also the first time I've kept Gorim on friend-status. I AM MAKING A SACRIFICE HERE!

Holy Cow!!

[Sarah1281]

Lady Jess wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

BTW, this is also the first time I've kept Gorim on friend-status. I AM MAKING A SACRIFICE HERE!

Holy Cow!!

So did you go the 'we've talked about this, Gorim...' route or the 'I'm pretending to not/actually don't notice you flirting with me' route?

[Gilsa]

I wouldn't reject him. I just called him my friend for being "silly." I did appreciate the little in-joke when he tells me that Harrowmont is hoping that I'll be swept off my feet by a man at the Proving and I said, hah, that's not likely to happen. =p

[Sarah1281]

Gilsa wrote...

I wouldn't reject him. I just called him my friend for being "silly." I did appreciate the little in-joke when he tells me that Harrowmont is hoping that I'll be swept off my feet by a man at the Proving and I said, hah, that's not likely to happen. =p

Maybe it's just because it's late but... in-joke? 

[Lady Jess]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

I wouldn't reject him. I just called him my friend for being "silly." I did appreciate the little in-joke when he tells me that Harrowmont is hoping that I'll be swept off my feet by a man at the Proving and I said, hah, that's not likely to happen. =p

Maybe it's just because it's late but... in-joke? 

swept off my feet by a man at the Proving and I said, hah, that's not
likely to happen.

[KnightofPhoenix]

tmp7704 wrote...
Again, why would they enter the mountains to begin with? There's a trail there but very little else and the darkspawn is not obliged to use it, especially since being potential chokepoint it's dangerous route for them to take while they can move unhindered through the Deep Roads instead.

And sure, leaving dwarves holed up in their little fortress can be perfectly viable. What do you expect them to do, go out and chase after darkspawn all way to middle of Orlais and beyond? If so then by all means, let them -- they'll just make easier targets once stripped off their defensive walls.

I just gave you two reasons why the Blight has interest in destroying Orzammar. Protecting their rear and protecting their breeding grounds, all of which are underground, so no the dwarves won't be "chasing them all the way to the middle of Orlais". Seeing how the Archdemon demonstrated strategic and tactical capabilities, him ignoring Orzammar would be an act of idiocy.

The only line of defense the dwarves have on the surface is that gate in the forstback mountains, which leads to the hall of heroes and then directly to the city. In other words, it has effecively 0 defenses.
Whereas in the deep roads, the dwarves have certain advantages:
a- They have experience fighting there, but little experience fighting on the surface.
b- they have grounds to give up or afford to lose, not so on the surface
c- The deep roads provide them with choke points and defensive positions, not so on the surface.

Just because all previous Blights ignored Orzammar doesn't mean they will do so again. Especially since all prievious Blights were very far from Orzammar and thus could not have attacked. The Blight compeltely eradicating the dwarves would be a tremendous victory for them, as only the dwarves stand against them in the deep roads.

All these points considered, the dwarves deciding not to help Ferelden would be an act of great idiocy. If they think that they can survive when the Blight reaches the frostback mountains, because they are counting on Orlesians coming in, then they are taking a huge huge risk. The Orlesians would be be better off holding defensive positions at their borders.

Sure, they can lose if they join the coalition. But if they don't join, they will surely be destroyed when the Blight reaches their outer gate.

EDIT: as for why the Blight would go to the mountains.
The same reason the Blights go to the surface and plague the land. 

But if you are suggesting that they can use the deep roads instead to go to Orlais, that makes Orzammar in their path and thus the danger is the same. So what's your point?
That the darkspawn won't be heading to the mountains, but rather go underground to Orlais, while passing near Orzammar and ignoring it? Seriously? Ha

Whether via the deep roads or via the surface, the Blight heading west means Orzammar is in direct danger.
 Trusting that the blight will ignore them, is quite frankly stupid.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 juillet 2010 - 07:34 .

[Costin_Razvan]

The only line of defense the dwarves have on the surface is that gate in the forstback mountains, which leads to the hall of heroes and then directly to the city. In other words, it has effecively 0 defenses.

Just because we only see THAT doesn't mean that's all there is to the city. Come on Knight, don't judge Orzammar's defenses based only on what we see in the game.



And what grounds do they have to give up in the Deep hmm? We hear a few people in the game saying the warriors are defending the WALLS of Orzammar ( Rica for example ) that's no ground you can give up.



Taking a fortress is a massive undertaking, no matter the size of your army, it's an even bigger undertaking when your opponent is fighting in the very capital of their kingdom. If the full might of Blight turned against Orzammar instead of Denerim at the ending of the game they would never have taken the Hall of Heroes. You know why?



It's a bottleneck. I do not think I need say how many times in the past have less, but superior troops held against overwhelming numbers in bottlenecks. I need not say how many defenders of castles faced overwhelming numbers in sieges and either fought their enemy back or held them for a long time.



Thermopylae, Tyre ( both Alexander's and Saladin's sieges ), Jerusalem, Constantinople, First and Second Siege of Vienna and a more recent WW2 one: Bir Hakeim. ( 4.000 Free French that held for 2 weeks against ten times as many Germans with Planes and Tanks )



Every single one of those times the defender had a lot less men then the attacker and every single time the attacker payed in rivers of blood to win. ( save for the First Siege of Vienna, which was a victory ).



To suggest that Orzammar would simply be crushed easily by Blight is downright foolish. Would they lose in a protracted siege? Maybe, maybe they would simply defeat the spawn...



For a dwarf general there a few things to consider when deciding if or when the Blight will attack Orzammar.



1) If the Wardens fail at defeating the Blight without dwarven aid, which might not happen.



2) Should the Wardens fail, then if Celene doesn't march with her troops against the Blight along with the Orlesian Wardens



3) If the Archdemon even turns it's force against Orzammar. Admittedly destroying a fortress when you want to move your front lines beyond it is quite the smart thing to do, but ignoring the threat of Orlais who is mustering troops at the border isn't ( even in the situation where Celene wouldn't be sending troops into Fereldan she would be marshaling them on her borders )



You once said the reason why Bhelen wants to fight the Blight is to strengthen his grasp on the throne. Ok, good reason, but Harrowmont doesn't care about that.



The real reason the nobles of Assembly vote to support you is because you just took their opposition or/and scarred them into submission by killing Bhelen and a full half of the Assembly.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Just because we only see THAT doesn't mean that's all there is to the city. Come on Knight, don't judge Orzammar's defenses based only on what we see in the game.

I will not speculate upon invinsible defenses where I can't see any. All I see is this gate.

Costin_Razvan wrote...
And what grounds do they have to give up in the Deep hmm? We hear a few people in the game saying the
warriors are defending the WALLS of Orzammar ( Rica for example ) that's no ground you can give up.

We see the Legion right near the Dead Trenches and they used to have Fortresses, which they lost but it shows that they have more familiarity and opportunity in the deep roads rather than on the surface they have't fought on for centuries. With the Blight moving up to the surface, the dwarves can acquire territory they can afford to give up. They have nothing on the surface.

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Taking a fortress is a massive undertaking, no matter the size of your army, it's an even bigger undertaking when your opponent is fighting in the very capital of their kingdom. If the full might of Blight turned against Orzammar instead of Denerim at the ending of the game they would never have taken the Hall of Heroes. You know why?

Every single one of those times the defender had a lot less men then the attacker and every single time the attacker payed in rivers of blood to win. ( save for the First Siege of Vienna, which was a victory ).

The darkspawn do not seem to care about their casualties. So the point is moot. The cost in blood is irrelevent.
And Vienna was a victory because of reinforcements. Who is going to come for the Dwarve's aid?
The Orlesians would most likely hold defensive positions.
 
And what if the Blight leads a two front attack on Orzammar, one on the surface and one underground. What then?

Even if the Dwarves last for long, they will get destroyed, unless someone decides to help them. Now ignoring the fact that the dwarves didn't hep Ferelden for them to earn help, the Orlesians have no interest in passing through the mountains and fighting on what would be a terrain plagued by the Blight at that point. They are better off fighting on familiar grounds and holding choke points.

Costin_Razvan wrote...
For a dwarf general there a few things to consider when deciding if or when the Blight will attack Orzammar.

1) If the Wardens fail at defeating the Blight without dwarven aid, which might not happen.

2) Should the Wardens fail, then if Celene doesn't march with her troops against the Blight along with the Orlesian Wardens

3) If the Archdemon even turns it's force against Orzammar. Admittedly destroying a fortress when you want to move your front lines beyond it is quite the smart thing to do, but ignoring the threat of Orlais who is mustering troops at the border isn't ( even in the situation where Celene wouldn't be sending troops into Fereldan she would be marshaling them on her borders )

All of these consderations are based solely on "what ifs" that are not dependent on the dwarves, but solely on what happens with others. That's not how one plans strategy. Taking initiative is also key. The smartest thing for the Dwarves to do is fight in the coalition and not think that:
a- the Blight will ignore them (highly unlikely)
b- that reinforcements would come if the Blight doesn't ignore them (unlikely)
c- that they can hold them off indefiantely, if reinforcements don't come (unlikely) 

In addition, the Orlesians would be better off holding defgensive position and a chokepoint at the mountains. which the Blight can bypass via the deep roads. In either case, destroying Orzammar is the smart thing to do.

Costin_Razvan wrote...
You once said the reason why Bhelen wants to fight the Blight is to strengthen his grasp on the throne. Ok, good reason, but Harrowmont doesn't care about that.

The real reason the nobles of Assembly vote to support you is because you just took their opposition or/and scarred them into submission by killing Bhelen and a full half of the Assembly.

This is not relevent to the discussion at hand.
My point was that Bhelen can be trusted to send us an army because that's the smartest thing to do, countering the argument that you can't trust Bhelen to send you the army.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 juillet 2010 - 08:21 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Really? If taking the initiative is so important in your mind then why are you suggesting it would be better for the Orlesians to defend their borders. It makes no sense. 

Initiative is all good and well, but risking your army for a country that is not your own in a massive gamble at Denerim ( and that is exactly what the entire battle at Denerim was: a gamble ), is not a very smart thing to do. Bhelen is willing to take it because he wants to show he is a strong king but what reason could Harrowmont have for that?

Secondly, even if Denerim fell with the Human, Elven/Werewolf, Mage/Templar army then it would take at least as long as it took the Darkspawn to march on Denerim from Ostagar: Almost one year. Perhaps even more.

To suggest Celene would simply allow her troops to stand guard on the border for when the darkspawn are done with Fereldan with one year or more is downright foolish. Keeping an army supplied for that long at borders of your country is a very expensive affair. It would make far more sense for her and the wardens to move against the spawn. 

Assuming the Wardens of Orlais wouldn't enter Fereledan anyway, 200 in number as they were, to try and weaken the darkspawn as much as they can for ensuing battle.

As for even sieging Orzammar. Assuming what I mention above does not come to pass, and assuming Celene doesn't move to save one of Orlais's most important trade partners then even then taking the city would require a great deal of darkspawn troops, so much so the Archdemon might decide it's a too costly affair. Even with near infinite troops logistics ARE a problem. I assume the Darkspawn need to eat, drink and even are susceptible to cold. Certainly they might eat each other, but that's only going to increase your casualties by a lot if you start relying on THAT.

For an army like the darkspawn have, laying siege for a long period of time is not favorable at all, and to ignore a massed army only a few miles by the border while you do lay siege is downright foolhardy.

Anyway, been working on my balance mod for ME2 a bit.
I have managed to change the HP, Shields, Attack Rate and Cooldown of both allies and opponents...though I still can't find ability damage, nor can I change what exact abilities certain squad members have ( wanting to give Garrus Tactical Cloak for example ). But at least I am able to switch what weapons squad members can use.
Still. One of the major changes I made for now was to give the Hammerhead way faster regen!
Check it our HERE

[soignee]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


In addition, the Orlesians would be better off holding defensive position and a chokepoint at the mountains. which the Blight can bypass via the deep roads. In either case, destroying Orzammar is the smart thing to do.

Yep, this. If I were Empress of Orlais I would not be extending my hand out to the dwarves for help, especially if the refused to help Ferelden in the first place.

I was reading Kardol's dialogue trees last night and you get the overall impression it's spite he doesn't want to help. He can't help anyway as he answers only to the King, but when you encounter him in the Deep Trenches it's like, "why yes, I do see the mass army of darkspawn marching out of my frontline and giving me respite. Did you notice them too? Good work."

It makes the OH HAI WARDEN I'LL JOIN YOU ON THE SURFACE so much sweeter, really, when you encounter him outside the Assembly.

[Costin_Razvan]

Yep, this. If I were Empress of Orlais I would not be extending my hand out to the dwarves for help, especially if the refused to help Ferelden in the first place.

And if you had important trade agrements with said Dwarves? Especially them being the key supplier of lyrium to the Chantry.

Since Lyrium is so important to the Chantry you can bet your arse they would never allow Orlais to not aid Orzammar, and no you can't just tell the Chantry to **** off, they have far reaching power and influence among the nobility of Orlais.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 06 juillet 2010 - 01:26 .

[Sarah1281]

So I haven't gotten the new DLC yet but I've heard that Mark Meer does Tug and that's surprising so I'm hoping that means that the character won't be ruined for me by sounding like male Shepard.

[Costin_Razvan]

How long have actually stopped to listen Meer's voice? Yes I admit in ME1 he does suck compared to Hale, who is purely awesome. But he does far better in ME2.

[Sarah1281]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

How long have actually stopped to listen Meer's voice? Yes I admit in ME1 he does suck compared to Hale, who is purely awesome. But he does far better in ME2.

I have only heard him as Shepard, admittedly, although I have heard him in ME2 as I've seen your videos and my brothers play male Shepard.

My idiot brother actually managed to get up to the boss battle in ME1 and then he lost interest so he decided to make a new character for ME2. I honestly have no idea what is wrong with him sometimes. Or all times.

[Costin_Razvan]

 He finished the game then dropped it all ? 

He voices a few characters in Dragon Age: Origins and Awakening btw. Small characters like Athras or the Werewolf Gatekeeper.

P.S. If you have DA:O on the PC, then why don't you get a proper picture for your avatar?

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 06 juillet 2010 - 04:23 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Really? If taking the initiative is so important in your mind then why are you suggesting it would be better for the Orlesians to defend their borders. It makes no sense. 

In the event that Ferelden does fall, of course Orlais has no interest to come in, which is the scenario I was talking about, in order to counter the idea that Orzammar might survive if Ferelden falls.
Howeve if Ferelden can still fight, it's obviously in Orlais' interest to fight the Blight in Ferelden and not on its home turf.

In addition, the Orlesians have advantages that the dwarves don't have, which make them afford fighting a defensive war.

A- Orlesians have advantage of terrain, if they hold chokepoints at the mountains. The Dwarves don't have that, as Orzammar is on the east side of the Mountains.

B- Orlais is vast and it will be able to continously reinforce its frontline position. The dwarves can't.

C- Orlais is a superpower and has large infuence, especially religion wise. It can afford to hold on and influence its neibghours to send reinforcements. The dwarves have no influence and no real allies.

D- Orlais would not be surrounded and cut out of supplies. Orzammar would be besieged via the surface and the deep roads, and all the darkspawn need to do is starve them out.

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Initiative is all good and well, but risking your army for a country that is not your own in a massive gamble at Denerim ( and that is exactly what the entire battle at Denerim was: a gamble ), is not a very smart thing to do. Bhelen is willing to take it because he wants to show he is a strong king but what reason could Harrowmont have for that?

The battle of Denerim is a non-issue when the dwarves mobalise. It happens by surprise after the dwarves agree to fight in the coalition. Before that, most darkspawn were headed west, aka where Orzammar is.
Whether it was wise of them to send troops when that hapens is another issue and irrelevent to the point at hand.

 

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Secondly, even if Denerim fell with the Human, Elven/Werewolf, Mage/Templar army then it would take at least as long as it took the Darkspawn to march on Denerim from Ostagar: Almost one year. Perhaps even more.

Eh no. It took you about 3 to 5 days to march from redcliff to Denerim in that forced march. It couldn't poissibly have been more than a week or two, as the city would have been utterly annihilated.

 

Costin_Razvan wrote...
To suggest Celene would simply allow her troops to stand guard on the border for when the darkspawn are done with Fereldan with one year or more is downright foolish. Keeping an army supplied for that long at borders of your country is a very expensive affair. It would make far more sense for her and the wardens to move against the spawn. 

If Ferelden falls, they won't. And regardless of what you feel, this is what the Orlesians are doing. See Riordan and Eamon (before the final battle).

Costin_Razvan wrote...
As for even sieging Orzammar. Assuming what I mention above does not come to pass, and assuming Celene doesn't move to save one of Orlais's most important trade partners then even then taking the city would require a great deal of darkspawn troops, so much so the Archdemon might decide it's a too costly affair. Even with near infinite troops logistics ARE a problem. I assume the Darkspawn need to eat, drink and even are susceptible to cold. Certainly they might eat each other, but that's only going to increase your casualties by a lot if you start relying on THAT.

It's irrelevent how much troops it would take. Why would you think that Archdemon wouldn't want to annihilate the dwarves utterly and protect its rear and its breeding grounds?
Even if the Blight is defeated, it destroying Orzammar would be a massive victory. IT would secure arkspawn dominance of the deep roads, or at the very least eliminate a rival.

Any dwarf thinking that "Well the darkspawn could just ignore us as they destroy the world. Oh and just as they pass right through the Forstback mountains. Eh, we can hope right? That's why I think it's a god idea to do nothing"
Yes, it's as stupid as it sounds.

Furthermore, you overestimate potential dwarven resistance. All examples of siege you gave were defeats and for a reason.

Several ways the darkspawn can counter bottlenecks:
A- any psycholigical effect of bottlenecks is nullified.
B- With Ogres leading the charge, bottlenecks would be broken easier.
C- Emissaries using firebals can knockout bottlenecks and pave the way for the rest as they move in to engage.
D- The Darkspawn could attack from the deep roads, forcing the Dwarves to defend from two positions.
E- with the above, all supplies are cut.

There is no way Orzammar would win on its own. It doesn't matter how long it lasts, it would still fall.

Costin_Razvan wrote...
For an army like the darkspawn have, laying siege for a long period of time is not favorable at all, and to ignore a massed army only a few miles by the border while you do lay siege is downright foolhardy.

The Blight could bypass them via the deep raods and spawn in the middle of Orlais. They don't have to engage them. Which makes taking out Orzammar that much more vital. 

And you keep thinking the spawn act like humans. They have no morale issues, which is key in any siege. Barely any fatigue. As for logistics, well they survive in the deep roads on spiders and whatever there is there to eat I assume. We don't know about darkspawn nutritial needs, but I do not think they need to eat as much as we do.
 
So a siege isn't really an issue. Prievious blights lasted for decades if not almost a century. And yet their numbers were still massive. I do not think they have the same issues as we do, so it's irrlevent. Plus, you are assumign taht the Blight will use al of its forces for that siege. It's not necessary.

But to recap, you think it's smart for the dwarves to not join the coalition, based solely on the assumtpion that:
a- The blight will ignore the dwarves.
b- the Orlesians will aid them if the bliht doesn't ignore them. But seeing ow Eamon says that the Orlesians will probably better their defenses and not come for Ferelden's aid, then I don't see them rescuing the dwarves after all of Ferelden falls. They are not worth it. If Celene really cared about the dwarves, then she would have marched her army to the Frosback mountains and set up fortifications. But as Eamon says, she remains on her borders. So it;s clear Orlais does not intend to mobalise. 

Well this plan of yours is even more of a gamble as it's based solely on what will happen to others.  The dwarves being passive won't save them and I am glad Orzamar was smart to join the coalition.

Anyways, I have to go. travelling to Palmyra for a week or so, probably won't find a good computer. See you al after that! Cheers  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 06 juillet 2010 - 04:38 .

[Sarah1281]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

 He finished the game then dropped it all ? 

He voices a few characters in Dragon Age: Origins and Awakening btw. Small characters like Athras or the Werewolf Gatekeeper.

P.S. If you have DA:O on the PC, then why don't you get a proper picture for your avatar?

Yeah, he did. He's special that way.

Does he? I don't like any of the werewolf voices but I think Athras was okay.

And in addition to the fact that the default profile picture bore me and I dislike the thought that it's the only 'proper' avatar picture as I like the ones I use just fine, my computer doesn't have the right graphics card and it was apparently built compact so the graphics card can't be replaced.

[Lady Jess]

O'm actually loving Tug so far, him and the elf have both cracked me up a few times.

[Gilsa]

Lady Jess wrote...

O'm actually loving Tug so far, him and the elf have both cracked me up a few times.

Likewise. I run around on him instead of Leliana.

[Lady Jess]

Gilsa wrote...

Lady Jess wrote...

O'm actually loving Tug so far, him and the elf have both cracked me up a few times.

Likewise. I run around on him instead of Leliana.

I'm enjoying playing Leli actually...and might just have to change my opinion on her a bit...man.

[Gilsa]

Pfft, Lel's always been awesome. I can get if people tire of her ninja-romance or her chantry enthusiasm, but not if it's based on a rumor in a codex of a DLC nobody really plays.