11146 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

DWSmiley wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

DWSmiley wrote...

Oghren is even *more* obnoxious in Awakenings? Gak. I shall finally be playing it when the patch comes out. Well, forewarned is forearmed...

Not so much obnoxious, more like a horrible person and a dead-beat father. I really liked Oghren in Origins, but I just kept him in Vigil's Keep during the game and when he died in the end I didn't reload to change my ending.

I warm to Oghren in his farwell speech at the city gates.  Too bad we don't get to see more of that side of him.  Then he's right back to ugh at the post coronation.  Sigh.

I didn't think he was bad post-coronation. I mean, yeah he does get into a drinking contest with Teagan but that doesn't really indicate disaster to me. He sounds really hopeful and is still riding high on the 'we beat the Archdemon' euphoria.

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Surely. It's not his problems that are...well a problem for me. It's the fact you essentially don't have any serious conversation with the guy in Awakening (just idiotic convos) and his ridiculous drunkness factor is multiplied by ten that it's no longer funny. Perhaps the only meaningful scene with Oghren was when you give him the pony. But other than that, he gets too ridiculous for his own good. You could talk seriously with Oghren in Origins, not so in Awakening and it's a shame.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 juillet 2010 - 08:21 .

[Kryyptehk]

Sarah1281 wrote...

DWSmiley wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

DWSmiley wrote...

Oghren is even *more* obnoxious in Awakenings? Gak. I shall finally be playing it when the patch comes out. Well, forewarned is forearmed...

Not so much obnoxious, more like a horrible person and a dead-beat father. I really liked Oghren in Origins, but I just kept him in Vigil's Keep during the game and when he died in the end I didn't reload to change my ending.

I warm to Oghren in his farwell speech at the city gates.  Too bad we don't get to see more of that side of him.  Then he's right back to ugh at the post coronation.  Sigh.

I didn't think he was bad post-coronation. I mean, yeah he does get into a drinking contest with Teagan but that doesn't really indicate disaster to me. He sounds really hopeful and is still riding high on the 'we beat the Archdemon' euphoria.

I agree, it didn't strike me as weird or obnoxious that he wanted to get in a drinking contest with Teagan. I even replied that I hoped he never changed. Now I wish I hadn't said that:(

[Sarah1281]

Kryyptehk wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...

Must I defend Awakening Oghren here? It's my opinion that his amped up obnoxiousness in Awakening, and his deadbeat dadness, is a direct result of his own inability to live up to what he imagined his life would be like after the Blight. He helped a hero, restored his honor, found a woman who could put up with him and was respected in the army...

But he doesn't deserve any of that, in his mind, and he's still hung up on Branka so he self-destructs all over the place and is over-the-top in such a glorious way that I feel like he's trying to get the Warden to give up on him being anything but a drunken-killing machine so he can wallow forever in his own worthlessness.

If you save him again in Awakening, he seems to find a place for himself in the Wardens where he can do what he loves, be somewhat respected and still be a presence in his baby's life without being around so much that he'd ruin him/her for good (which is, I think, something he fears).

I find playing it that way makes his arc seem incredibly believable, because it undoes the whole trope of the Warden saving all their companions with minimal effort. Oghren takes a lot of effort and ends Awakening somewhere between where you first found him in Origins and where he can be at the end of Origins.

I don't know, I still think death is a better thing for him. With him alive, the ending seems to suggest that he has no interest in being a father and the Warden has to make sure he doesn't screw his own life up. If he dies at Vigil's Keep than maybe his child can grow up thinking his father was a hero, rather than a useless, drunken mess. That is if Felsi doesn't tell the child about his selfishness.

That's only if you don't do his quest (or can't, with the bugs). If you do he confesses that while he thinks Felsi knew that he couldn't settle down again - he says ever but I see is as 'so soon' as you never know - but he felt bad about the kid but he didn't want to screw that up. If you suggest that he can still be a part of the kid's life he jumps on that and muses that being a GW means that she can even think that he's a hero and his epilogue says that he regularly wrote to Felsi and his daughter (and I assume occasionally saw them)...after the WC proofread his letters to make sure he didn't say somethign stupid.

[DWSmiley]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

DWSmiley wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

DWSmiley wrote...

Oghren is even *more* obnoxious in Awakenings? Gak. I shall finally be playing it when the patch comes out. Well, forewarned is forearmed...

Not so much obnoxious, more like a horrible person and a dead-beat father. I really liked Oghren in Origins, but I just kept him in Vigil's Keep during the game and when he died in the end I didn't reload to change my ending.

I warm to Oghren in his farwell speech at the city gates.  Too bad we don't get to see more of that side of him.  Then he's right back to ugh at the post coronation.  Sigh.

I didn't think he was bad post-coronation. I mean, yeah he does get into a drinking contest with Teagan but that doesn't really indicate disaster to me. He sounds really hopeful and is still riding high on the 'we beat the Archdemon' euphoria.

I agree, it didn't strike me as weird or obnoxious that he wanted to get in a drinking contest with Teagan. I even replied that I hoped he never changed. Now I wish I hadn't said that:(

A whole barrel of pickle juice!  

[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Surely. It's not his problems that are...well a problem for me. It's the fact you essentially don't have any serious conversation with the guy in Awakening (just idiotic convos) and his ridiculous drunkness factor is multiplied by ten that it's no longer funny. Perhaps the only meaningful scene with Oghren was when you give him the pony. But other than that, he gets too ridiculous for his own good. You could talk seriously with Oghren in Origins, not so in Awakening and it's a shame.

I think his problem is that you can't joke with him at all. At the beginning, with the pants monster convo, I thought it would be funny to joke around with it. Apparently not. I know he wants to be taken seriously, but that's kinda hard to do when he's falling down drunk.

But that is sorta Awakenings fault as well. I couldn't get very far with anyone except Anders, because the new system makes it nearly impossible to get any approval. Sometimes I just skipped the convo points because I couldn't say anything that would get me approval points that wouldn't be out of character. Hence why I prefer Origin's convo system.

[SurelyForth]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Surely. It's not his problems that are...well a problem for me. It's the fact you essentially don't have any serious conversation with the guy in Awakening (just idiotic convos) and his ridiculous drunkness factor is multiplied by ten that it's no longer funny. Perhaps the only meaningful scene with Oghren was when you give him the pony. But other than that, he gets too ridiculous for his own good. You could talk seriously with Oghren in Origins, not so in Awakening and it's a shame.

There are a couple of conversations that are ridiculous on the surface, but are incredibly telling. If you talk to him at the anvil in Kal'hirol, he's practically old Oghren, and his story about his dream is a huge red flag about how broken and guilty he is about Branka and the baby. The follow-up conversation you have after his personal quest is also good, because he's incredibly honest about what he is and how badly he's screwed up (especially in regards to his child). 

I agree that the obnoxiousness far outweighs these moments (especially with poor Sigrun), but I can appreciate what I think BW was trying to do with his character.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 17 juillet 2010 - 08:32 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

SurelyForth wrote...
I agree that the obnoxiousness far outweighs these moments (especially with poor Sigrun), but I can appreciate what I think BW was trying to do with his character.

I don't even know what they were trying to do.
It's been a while since I played Awakning, so I might have missed a few bright spots. But overall, I didnt' find him as intriguing as in Origins.

[SurelyForth]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

SurelyForth wrote...
I agree that the obnoxiousness far outweighs these moments (especially with poor Sigrun), but I can appreciate what I think BW was trying to do with his character.

I don't even know what they were trying to do.
It's been a while since I played Awakning, so I might have missed a few bright spots. But overall, I didnt' find him as intriguing as in Origins.

I think they were trying to undo our expectation that at our old friend/companion would be an easy ally in Awakening while also underlining the notion that there was real damage done to him in Origins that couldn't be healed by the Warden's awesomeness, or hooking up with Felsi or being seen as a hero. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

A noble attempt, if that's the case. But it failed for me as my sympathies for him decreased quite a lot. There comes a point when someone acting obnoxiously would make you oblivious to him / her.

[Costin_Razvan]

Knight: How does your Mike Thorton look like ?

And who the hell doesn't love SIE?

I assume that only now you have reached Moscow...where did you go first?

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 17 juillet 2010 - 10:10 .

[thegreateski]

This game basically takes every traditional fantasy archetype and turns it on its head.



So why is Oghren a walking, talking stereotype?



*mind is boggled*

[Sarah1281]

thegreateski wrote...

This game basically takes every traditional fantasy archetype and turns it on its head.

So why is Oghren a walking, talking stereotype?

*mind is boggled*

Well in the first game he wasn't just the mindless 'I like alcohol because I'm a dwarf' guy but he had deep psychological problems and we could all see that. In the second game, I think they were doing away with the stereotype that our friendship was so epic that we managed to 'save' him and showing that he still has problems.

[thegreateski]

All alcoholics have psychological problems. I thought this was obvious.



But seriously, if the dude can't be happy after slaying the Archdemon, being hailed as a hero all over Ferelden, and hooking up with Felsi then he would probably be better off falling on his sword.





I'm in a bad mood.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Knight: How does your Mike Thorton look like ?

And who the hell doesn't love SIE?

I assume that only now you have reached Moscow...where did you go first?

With a goatee. And the longest hair, which is not long at all. With advanced utility armor.

I actually finished the game.

[Sarah1281]

I wasn't talking about deconstructing a stereotype about alcoholics but about dwarves all being hooked on ale as we only meet one and he's an alcoholic instead of just another drunken dwarf.



And Oghren needs therapy. Lots of therapy. Maybe Mike Hawke founds psychiatry? That could certainly make him the most important person in this world where everyone is ten kinds of messed up and it's up to random strangers to solve all of your problems ALREADY...

[Sarah1281]

The Leliana thread is currently hating on dwarven males...

[Costin_Razvan]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Knight: How does your Mike Thorton look like ?

And who the hell doesn't love SIE?

I assume that only now you have reached Moscow...where did you go first?

With a goatee. And the longest hair, which is not long at all. With advanced utility armor.

I actually finished the game.

Oh and? Care to share some ending screens?

In my first ending I killed Mina, Scarlet, Parker. Mina used me...Scarlet led me on a wild goose chase all over Tapei and Parker I did not contact ( preferring to download the PDA files instead though I could have done it )

In my second ( and what I consider now cannon ) I killed Mina, spared Scarlet and Parker.

Check the first out here: www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 17 juillet 2010 - 10:38 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Knight: How does your Mike Thorton look like ?

And who the hell doesn't love SIE?

I assume that only now you have reached Moscow...where did you go first?

With a goatee. And the longest hair, which is not long at all. With advanced utility armor.

I actually finished the game.

Oh and? Care to share some ending screens?

I'm playing it on the 360.

Got the same ending as you. Mike's very own corporation with a substantial network of allies.

I liked the game and I have you to thank for the recomendation. So thanks!

[Costin_Razvan]

So...you have G22. Parker, Scarlet, SIE, Heck, Saheed, Zurkov, Chinese Secret Police?

 I liked the game and I have you to thank for the recomendation. So thanks!  

I knew you would. 

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 17 juillet 2010 - 10:41 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

So...you have G22. Parker, Scarlet, SIE, Heck, Saheed, Zurkov, Chinese Secret Police?

Yep, all of them.

[Costin_Razvan]

What did you do with Westridge, Mina and Scarlet?

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 17 juillet 2010 - 10:42 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

What did you do with Westridge, Mina and Scarlet?

Westridge is dead. So is Mina.

Scarlet is with Mike on the boat. I love SIE, but Scarlet is more my type.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Actually I remembered. I don't have Parker, I chose to get the intel instead, so I had Omen Deng reveal to me who assassinated President Sung. Parker was killed, sadly.

[Costin_Razvan]

Hmm....what with did you do with Madison in Rome or the Crazy Russian in Moscow?



I would replay the last mission then btw. You can get Parker if you just point out his analysis is flawed.