11146 réponses à ce sujet

[soignee]

Sandal with a tamborine makes me happy, you know they kid has good rhythm.

[Nonvita]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Nonvita wrote...

And that they are more resistant to lyrium, which the Templars are forced to use. Not completely immune, but it still makes things more difficult.

Alstair didn't need lyrium. It enhances their abilities, but it isn't necessary. And dwarves aren't that resistant to lyrium that they can stand and breathe in handfuls.

Breathe in lyrium - it gets into blood stream via lungs.

Alistair wasn't a full templar, either. Actual templars all seem to have been given lyrium. It seems it was more of a control thing than actually enhancing their abilities, but nonetheless the Chantry would probably be less likely to trust a bunch of dwarves who are resistant to lyrium's effects.

[Sarah1281]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
My guess is that they have tried and failed spectacularly, like brother Burkel.

Brother Burkel succeeded in my playthrough. There is a large Dwarven Andrastian minority and they are pissed that Burkel's been martyred. It shows that some dwarves can become devout Andrastians. The Chantry just needs to finance it better.  

Brother Burkel only succeeds if you talk the Shaper into it and he is only willing to discuss the matter with you because of your Grey Warden status and, in my playthroughs at least, only for the sake of the charities for the widowed and orphaned.

But you can intimidate and threaten him with an invasion if he doesn't. And since the Chantry already deals with the Dwarves in Lyrium trade, they can use that as leverage and try to subtly force their position. Eventually, the Shaper will have to listen to non-Wardens.
 
I would find it hard to believe that the Chantry never tried to do this. Perhaps they did  and failed, which shows us their incompetence.  

EDIT: The Dwarves are just as dependent on Lyrium trade as the Chantry, perhaps even more so. I find it hard to believe that the only source of yrium is Orzammar, while there are lyrium being used all over Thedas.
There is the Dwarven city in Orlais, as a secondary source.

If the Chantry threatened Orzammar with stopping the lyrium trade then there's a good chance - especially if Harrowmont th e notoriously impractical is on the throne - that they would be willing to take the economic hit for the sake of preserving their traditions. Relying on Kal'Sharok for Lyrium wouldn't be smart as dwarves are only willing to part with so much lyrium and Orzammar is a lot closer. Besides, if the Chantry refused to trade with them then that just means they lose their monopoly on the lyrium trade and then more mages and smiths could get their hands on it and the Chantry certainly doesn't want to do anything to make the mages less dependent on them and render their own templars worthless when they all start to go through withdrawl.

[Costin_Razvan]

Kal'Sharok isn't that far off actually. Defiantly it is somewhat farther from Val Royeaux then Orzammar is, but not so far that it would be hard to ship lyrium from there.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sarah1281 wrote...
If the Chantry threatened Orzammar with stopping the lyrium trade then there's a good chance - especially if Harrowmont th e notoriously impractical is on the throne - that they would be willing to take the economic hit for the sake of preserving their traditions. Relying on Kal'Sharok for Lyrium wouldn't be smart as dwarves are only willing to part with so much lyrium and Orzammar is a lot closer. Besides, if the Chantry refused to trade with them then that just means they lose their monopoly on the lyrium trade and then more mages and smiths could get their hands on it and the Chantry certainly doesn't want to do anything to make the mages less dependent on them and render their own templars worthless when they all start to go through withdrawl.

Orzammar is closer for Ferelden. Kal'Sharok is in Orlais (the heart of the Chantry) on the otherhand and is closer to the other regions. And seeing how Kal'Shirok is very poor, I think they would be willing to part with a lot of lyrium in exchange for economic benefits. But we don't really know how the city operates so that might be a stretch.

The decision to open a chantry apparently doesn't need the approval of the king (or maybe that was a special case). Just the shaper and he could be persuaded / intimidated.

They can easily instaure a blockade on Orzammar and ensure that no one else gets lyrium. In addition to cutting off all kinds of trade with the surface. Though you are right, an idiot like Harrowmont would be willing to take the hit. But it would be only a matter of time before they have to comply.

I do believe that the dwarves of Orzammar are more dependent on lyrium trade than the Chantry is. So it would be a matter of who can last longer. That and if they start financing missionaries (who can work even without shaper authorization) and there they have another leverage to use.

The Chantry has too many leverages not to use, so I wonder why they haven't tried it yet. The easy answer is that the game gives the option forus, so we feel like we are changing the world. But it would be weird if the Chantry didn't try it before.

[aimo_ahmed]

Nonvita wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

soignee wrote...

Does anyone know why the fan community has sort of had a Brosca explosion? I've seen so many more fics/arts then usual, has left me a bit stunned!

WE'RE POPULAR AGAIN, WOOOOOOOO!

Again? When were dwarves popular before?

Shhh, don't question her. She gets angry when her illusions are deflated....

@Soignee- maybe it's because of prominent people like Aimo focusing so much on dwarves that people get interested? Or because people already played through all the other origins and finally decided to try dwarves then got excited about them? Either way, it does seem like they've picked up, which is great. People are making some great stuff with those luscious curves.

Whenever I get messages from my gallery visitors that they gave the Dwarf Origins a try after seeing my art, I get warm fuzzies. When they come back to say they like Dwarves the best, I get ecstatic.

It's even more heartening when some of them had preconceptions of dwarves being a joke/background/2nd tier fantasy race dispelled by doing so. That is a big win for me

Herr Uhl wrote...
Yes, Bodahn has a
sublime form.

It's the plus side of constant fleeing from darkspawn.

soignee wrote...
Sandal with a tamborine makes me happy,
you know they kid has good rhythm.

I think he'd rock that tambourine.

[Herr Uhl]

I think that even Bhelen could see how bringing in the chantry would undermine all of the nobles authority, not giving it to the poor, but instead giving it to those dudes/gals in Orlais. If they could make Bhelen/whomever is king Andrastian, maybe.



Lyrium was so scarce during the glory days of the dwarves that the Imperium considered it as cost-efficient to use elves instead, Lyrium is rare, and can't be mined by humans (they would die from exposure). Kal'Sharok isn't the best thing to bet your money on just to get dwarven templars.

[Sarah1281]

aimo_ahmed wrote...
Whenever I get messages from my gallery visitors that they gave the Dwarf Origins a try after seeing my art, I get warm fuzzies. When they come back to say they like Dwarves the best, I get ecstatic.

It's even more heartening when some of them had preconceptions of dwarves being a joke/background/2nd tier fantasy race dispelled by doing so. That is a big win for me

Keep it up and sooner or later everyone will have tried playing a dwarf...

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...
Kal'Sharok isn't the best thing to bet your money on just to get dwarven templars.

It's part of Chantry doctrine to spread the chant to all 4 corners of the world. So they have more than just Dwarven Templars (badass that they are) as incentives.  

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
Kal'Sharok isn't the best thing to bet your money on just to get dwarven templars.

It's part of Chantry doctrine to spread the chant to all 4 corners of the world. So they have more than just Dwarven Templars (badass that they are) as incentives.  

They still aren't anywhere close to finding the land where the Qunari came from. Considering their metabolism, they might have to invent steam-power before being able to reach it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
Kal'Sharok isn't the best thing to bet your money on just to get dwarven templars.

It's part of Chantry doctrine to spread the chant to all 4 corners of the world. So they have more than just Dwarven Templars (badass that they are) as incentives.  

They still aren't anywhere close to finding the land where the Qunari came from. Considering their metabolism, they might have to invent steam-power before being able to reach it.

But this wouldn't stop them from trying to spread the chant to the Dwarves.

Or perhaps the "the Dwarves don't come from the Maker thing" is actually a serious thought that the Chantry entertains. Might explain why they aren't interested.

[soignee]

Sarah1281 wrote...

aimo_ahmed wrote...
Whenever I get messages from my gallery visitors that they gave the Dwarf Origins a try after seeing my art, I get warm fuzzies. When they come back to say they like Dwarves the best, I get ecstatic.

It's even more heartening when some of them had preconceptions of dwarves being a joke/background/2nd tier fantasy race dispelled by doing so. That is a big win for me

Keep it up and sooner or later everyone will have tried playing a dwarf...

<3<3<3 'tis true!

[MOTpoetryION]

ok i guess im in a giving mood today so...

no i have not finished i dwarf yet i havent even started one they just dont apeal to me much.
why is there anything around that might change my mind in this?

edit my bigest thisng wasyou were given the right to pick who you wanted to be ruler . but that just like the cake was a lie. honestly i diddnt like either balen or harramont. i wanted to be able to say i chose the female that you were doing a quest to find proof she was royalalty . stir things up a bit but was not alowed to do . i think a Queen  was what was needed for the dwarfs for a change.

Modifié par MOTpoetryION, 22 avril 2010 - 04:48 .

[Sarah1281]

MOTpoetryION wrote...

ok i guess im in a giving mood today so...

no i have not finished i dwarf yet i havent even started one they just dont apeal to me much.
why is there anything around that might change my mind in this?

Aimo?

[Hechicera]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But you can intimidate and threaten him with an invasion if he doesn't. And since the Chantry already deals with the Dwarves in Lyrium trade, they can use that as leverage and try to subtly force their position. Eventually, the Shaper will have to listen to non-Wardens.
 
I would find it hard to believe that the Chantry never tried to do this. Perhaps they did  and failed, which shows us their incompetence.  

EDIT: The Dwarves are just as dependent on Lyrium trade as the Chantry, perhaps even more so. I find it hard to believe that the only source of yrium is Orzammar, while there are lyrium being used all over Thedas.
There is the Dwarven city in Orlais, as a secondary source.

Nah.  Smuggling.  From both the quest offered to the Warden and the Dwarf Commoner origin you realize that lyrium smuggling is big business for the casteless, and all of it they deal in is illegally smuggled.  From the one quest, this implies much of the Templar's supply is smuggled too.  They do not exist to the shaper so there is no official way to pressure that official office over leverage on an economic activity that is unregulated and performed by people they do not recognize.

That doesn't make the Chantry any more competent ...

[Sarah1281]

Hechicera wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

But you can intimidate and threaten him with an invasion if he doesn't. And since the Chantry already deals with the Dwarves in Lyrium trade, they can use that as leverage and try to subtly force their position. Eventually, the Shaper will have to listen to non-Wardens.
 
I would find it hard to believe that the Chantry never tried to do this. Perhaps they did  and failed, which shows us their incompetence.  

EDIT: The Dwarves are just as dependent on Lyrium trade as the Chantry, perhaps even more so. I find it hard to believe that the only source of yrium is Orzammar, while there are lyrium being used all over Thedas.
There is the Dwarven city in Orlais, as a secondary source.

Nah.  Smuggling.  From both the quest offered to the Warden and the Dwarf Commoner origin you realize that lyrium smuggling is big business for the casteless, and all of it they deal in is illegally smuggled.  From the one quest, this implies much of the Templar's supply is smuggled too.  They do not exist to the shaper so there is no official way to pressure that official office over leverage on an economic activity that is unregulated and performed by people they do not recognize.

That doesn't make the Chantry any more competent ...

Oh that would be a fun conversation...the Chantry comes in all indignant with more than enough proof of what's been going on but the Shaper is forced to tell them that their cognitive dissonance means they have no idea what they're talking about no matter how many imaginary people have been caught discussing the subject in front of the surface representative...

[MOTpoetryION]

aimo?

EDIT not sure what that is sorry. plus i aded a edit to my first post explaining why mostly

Modifié par MOTpoetryION, 22 avril 2010 - 04:58 .

[Sarah1281]

MOTpoetryION wrote...
edit my bigest thisng wasyou were given the right to pick who you wanted to be ruler . but that just like the cake was a lie. honestly i diddnt like either balen or harramont. i wanted to be able to say i chose the female that you were doing a quest to find proof she was royalalty . stir things up a bit but was not alowed to do . i think a Queen  was what was needed for the dwarfs for a change.

She would have made the worst ruler ever. She was nice, earnest, sincere...she would have been eaten alive. If you play as a DC then you pretty much have to side with Bhelen for your sister's sake and if you side with Harrowmont as a DN then you could end up being the ruler (Queen if you play as a girl).

Bhelen has a lot of support as he was planning his rise to power for years, is brilliant and ruthless as hell, and is a member of the most powerful House in Orzammar. The only person who could even hope to oppose him is Harrowmont as he did have the late King's backing and was a popular and effective deshyr for years as well as Endrin's trusted advisor. Even with the support of most of the nobility, however (and they just want to get the Aeducans out of power after nine generations), Harrowmont wouldn't stand a chance of actually taking the throne without the Warden getting a Paragon involved. Considering that, how could anyone else possibly hope to take the throne?

[MOTpoetryION]

i just diddnt like some of the things both of them did haramont was to keep things the same . balan i diddnt like that he diddnt care enough about the survival of the dwarfs . because he just was willing to kill off breeding able males. for a race that was already shrinking fast. plus i think he killed his brothers. And you dont know enough about who i said i wanted to choose to have say that. some of the best rulers came from the bottom they have a better understanding all all classes of the people .

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If you play as a DC then you pretty much have to side with Bhelen for your sister's sake and if you side with Harrowmont as a DN then you could end up being the ruler (Queen if you play as a girl).

Why add "(Queen if you play as girl)"`? You do still have the same authority/obligation as the male.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 22 avril 2010 - 05:09 .

[Sarah1281]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

If you play as a DC then you pretty much have to side with Bhelen for your sister's sake and if you side with Harrowmont as a DN then you could end up being the ruler (Queen if you play as a girl).

Why add "(Queen if you play as girl)"`? You do still have the same authority/obligation as the male.

Because he said "i think a Queen  was what was needed for the dwarfs for a change." If he really had his heart set on a Queen, he should play as a DNF.

[Sarah1281]

MOTpoetryION wrote...

i just diddnt like some of the things both of them did haramont was to keep things the same . balan i diddnt like that he diddnt care enough about the survival of the dwarfs . because he just was willing to kill off breeding able males. for a race that was already shrinking fast. plus i think he killed his brothers. And you dont know enough about who i said i wanted to choose to have say that. some of the best rulers came from the bottom they have a better understanding all all classes of the people .

But they wouldn't survive in dwarven politics. They manipulate, blackmail, bribe, threaten, poison, outright murder anyone that gets in their way. If you really want a crash course in dwarven politics, just play the DN origin. Bhelen didn't necessarily have to kill any family member, it's entirely possible that his exiled brother actually did and the only way you know for sure is if you played that origin and made the choice. Again, that's just politics. Harrowmont tried being nice and honorable (well, comparatively. He still bought votes) and he got nothing done without the Anvil except more isolation from the Surface. Lord Helmi is probably the most progressive deshyr there is but all the other deshyrs hate him for his ideas and his family sees him as a disappointment as no one wants to give up power and let the lower castes have a say in ruling.

And Aimo specializes in converting dwarf-hesitant players over to the dark side.

[MOTpoetryION]

plus i didnt count them but siding with harramont you end up having to kill alot of breeding able males that belen is willing to sacrafice just to be ruler. they both diddnt care enough about their peoples survival. i just took what caradin said to lteral that i could choose who i wanted . when i really diddnt. it just goes down as another bad part of the story by bioware. like the treaties you had the power to DEMAND help from all the races to fight the blight. but instead you had to be everyones

errand boy/ problem solver for them to agree to help. the treaties were useless in my eyes.

[soignee]

MOTpoetryION wrote...

 but instead you had to be everyones
errand boy/ problem solver for them to agree to help. the treaties were useless in my eyes.

Are you new to politics?

[Sarah1281]

Dwarven society could survive fine if you kill off a good portion of the male population. It's the females which can only have, at most, one child a year if that's your concern. A lot of dwarven males are going to die anyway if you choose Bhelen because he has all of the sons of Harrowmont's supporters sent to the surface so they'll be the first to die. It's not like the problem is a lack of dwarves, anyway. There are plenty of casteless but Bhelen's the only one willing to utilize that particular resource.