11146 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarah1281]

Radahldo wrote...

How long is the DN supposed to have known Gorim?

Hm, that's a good question. The toolset does say he's only eighteen but he looks a lot older than that. Probably a few years if he's that devoted and (in some cases) in love? Not to mention his family had tradtionally been serving the Aeducans for forever so either he was always meant to be your second or he was meant to be Trian's but someone realized what a horrible match that would be (can you imagine?) or Trian insisted on picking his own second and you're next in line.

On that regard I believe they should just remove dog as a party member you get no matter what, and let you keep your unique Origin Companion ( Tamlen, Jowan, Gorim, Sorris ) and for him to be only available to HN

That would be cool but too time-consuming. They even cut Jowan as both permanent and temporary companion in Redcliffe, after all. Although a DLC which works with what they already had and puts him back as recruitable would be nice.

Yeah, but it's the devotion that creeps me out a bit. If you RP someone who is in a loving relationship it makes more sense, but he still does the same thing if you are a real douche. I still think that we should be able to bring Leske with us to Ostagar, what does he have to stay for?

 Well, that explains it. I never thought acting like Trian would make the fact that everybody loves you more because of how he acts very realistic. Although I suppose you could be nice and polite to everyone else and treat Gorim like trash.

As for Leske, doesn't impress Duncan and he's only an accomplice. Duncan's impressed that not only are you very good at fighting but how defiant you are and when you break out of prison it only impresses him more. The one who is really in trouble for disgracing everyone is the DC. If she had entered and then lost horribly people would still be upset but it would just go to show that casteless can't hold a candle to the warriors. That it went the opposite way...very problematic. And you know that if Leske had followed you to the surface he would have pulled a Jory. No strength of character, that one.

[Radahldo]

Maybe it was more sentimentality that caused Gorim to be assigned to the DN from an early age, rather than it being the usual course of things. Maybe Endrin just wanted the DN to have the same experiences he had in his youth with Gorims father.





Trians personality in general seems at odds with the point of seconds.. does someone so rude really need a buffer against society? His personality alone is enough for that. so I agree.. him with Gorim would've been horrible.

[Sarah1281]

Trians personality in general seems at odds with the point of seconds.. does someone so rude really need a buffer against society? His personality alone is enough for that. so I agree.. him with Gorim would've been horrible.

He mentioned that he had had a second in his journal but throughout the Origin he seemed to be treating Bhelen as his second and we were shown that even high-up nobles could serve as seconds from time-to-time as Bhelen was being Endrin's during the expedition and he said he was taking the DN's place (I guess Endrin didn't want Trian to do it for some reason?).

And it seems like a rude person could be even ruder with a second, like how you get an option to say things like 'Gorim, tell this peson to leave' and then Gorim repeats it to whoever you want to go away as you're so self-important you can only communicate with the lower castes through a medium. Of course, when Gorim spoke up in front of Trian to try and defend you, Trian got pissed so Gorim's running commentary throughout the Origin really would not end well for him as Trian's second. Not to mention he outright tells you that he thinks Trian should be killed for the sake of House Aeducan and that he has no patience for being talked down to by him.

That's why this section of Trian's journal always confuses me: "Lady Jaylia will of course accept proposal of marriage since will be king sooner or later, but never hurts to be polite and keep the lady happy." No, it doesn't. Since you know this, why not act on it?

Modifié par Sarah1281, 28 avril 2010 - 11:35 .

[Gilsa]

From the Alistair thread!

Sarah1281 wrote...

BTW, you should hang out in the dwarf thread some more too!

You know, Gilsa,  that is excellent advice...  ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png

LOL, OK OK. I had a mental bookmark on your question of what Bhelen said when you came back with the crown and didn't want to proceed past that because I'd get sidetrack with the conversation and forget to come back to that page. So I was mentally bookmarking along while being in an "let's talk about Alistair" mood!

Without further ado ...

From page 80!

Sarah1281 wrote...

Hey, I was wondering something. Since I can't bring myself to go through an entire trip through Orzammar siding with Harrowmont just to find this out, what does Bhelen say when Oghren tells the Assembly about Branka/Caridin? For a DN, of course, it's 'And we are supposed to believe this? The word of a drunken sot and a murdreing exile known to be in Harrowmont's pocket?' I assume that for a none dwarf he says something about a surfacer instead but what about for the DC? Does he call you a casteless thug or something? The casteless part would definitely come up, I think. And what does he say if you side with him at the last second? I think I've only tried that as a DN. Does he have a specific reaction if you're a DC or just the generic non-DN one? And what is the generic one?

(IF: You_Worked_For_Bhelen) Bhelen: "Well, Warden? What news do you bring?"
(IF: You_Worked_For_Harrowmont) Harrowmont: "We should let the Warden speak. What news do you bring?"

1. I bear a crown from Paragon Branka for her chosen king.
[Comment] Outrage and surprise among the gathered dwarven lords.
(IF BRANKA DEAD) Oghren: "Branka sacrificed herself to destroy a cursed sodding artifact that should never have existed." (VO: sad and angry)
Oghren: "Before she died, Branka forged this crown for Orzammar's next king, chosen by the ancestors themselves." (VO: dramatic announcement)

(IF BRANKA LIVES) Oghren: "Branka still lives, though she's as mad as a nug at a tanner's shop. She finally found the Anvil of the Void and chose to stay in the Deep to work it." (VO: Gruffly. "mad as a nug in a tanner's shop" = completely insane)
Ohgren: "She tasked this Grey Warden to give her crown to Orzammar's next king, chosen by the ancestors as the first in a millennium to lead a golem army against a Blight." (VO: grandstanding a bit)

2. I bear a crown from Paragon Caridin for his chosen king.
Oghren: "Caridin was trapped in the body of a golem. This Warden granted him the mercy he sought, releasing him and destroying the Anvil of the Void." (VO: telling a story he know will shock people)
Oghren: "Before he died, Caridin forged a crown for Orzammar's next king, chosen by the ancestors
themselves!" (VO: He's enjoying the attention and is hamming it up.)

3. I bring a crown forged by Caridin on the Anvil of the Void.
Oghren: "Caridin was trapped in the body of a golem. This Warden granted him the mercy he sought, releasing him and destroying the Anvil of the Void." (VO: telling a story he know will shock people)
Oghren: "Before he died, Caridin forged a crown for Orzammar's next king, chosen by the ancestors
themselves!" (VO: He's enjoying the attention and is hamming it up.)

4. Paragon Branka is alive, and she has chosen her king.
Oghren: "Branka still lives, though she's as mad as a nug at a tanner's shop. She finally found the Anvil of the Void and chose to stay in the Deep to work it." (VO: Gruffly. "mad as a nug in a tanner's shop" = completely insane)
Ohgren: "She tasked this Grey Warden to give her crown to Orzammar's next king, chosen by the ancestors as the first in a millennium to lead a golem army against a Blight." (VO: grandstanding a bit)

5. Paragon Branka is dead, but chose a king before she died.
[Comment] Outrage and surprise among the gathered dwarven lords.
Oghren: "Branka sacrificed herself to destroy a cursed sodding artifact that should never have existed." (VO: sad and angry)
Oghren: "Before she died, Branka forged this crown for Orzammar's next king, chosen by the ancestors  themselves." (VO: dramatic announcement)

(IF: WORKING FOR BHELEN)
Harrowmont: "I would like to believe Oghren's word, but it's well-known the Grey Warden is Bhelen's hireling!" (VO: rejecting)
(IF: DWARF NOBLE WORKING FOR HARROWMONT)
Bhelen: "And we are supposed to trust this, the word of a drunken sot and a murdering exile known to be in Harrowmont's pocket?" (VO: angry, playing the crowd)
(IF: WORKING FOR HARROWMONT)
Bhelen: "And we are supposed to trust this, the word of a drunken sot and a Grey Warden known to be in Harrowmont's pocket?" (VO: playing the crowd)

(IF: Branka) Steward: "Then tell us, Grey Warden, which king did Paragon Branka endorse?" (VO: commanding)
(IF: Caridin) Steward: "This crown *is* of Paragon make and bears House Ortan's ancient seal. Tell us, Warden: whom did Caridin choose?" (VO: in awe)

1. He/she wished me to give the crown to whomever I choose.
(IF: DWARF NOBLE WORKING FOR HARROWMONT) Bhelen: "Why would a Paragon entrust an exile and a murderer with such a weighty decision? This is utterly ridiculous!" (VO: outraged)
(IF: WORKING FOR HARROWMONT) Bhelen: "The Grey Warden knows nothing about us! Why would a Paragon entrust someone like this with such a weighty decision? This is ridiculous!" (VO: outraged)
(IF: WORKING FOR BHELEN) Harrowmont: "Why would a Paragon trust someone who knows nothing of us with such a decision? This is preposterous!" (VO: outraged)

Steward: "We've argued in these chambers for too long. The will of the Paragon is that the Grey Warden decide." (VO: Commanding)
1a. I grant the crown to Bhelen. (See #2)
1b. I would grant the crown to Harrowmont. (See #3)

2. Branka/Caridin chose Bhelen.
(IF: WORKING FOR BHELEN) Bhelen: "At last. This farce is ended and I can take my rightful place on my father's throne." (VO: slightly menancing "at last.")
(IF: DWARF NOBLE WORKING FOR HARROWMONT) Bhelen: "I... you leave me speechless. After all the venom we've spewed at each other... But I am honored you did what is right for your house." (VO: surprised and grateful)
(IF: WORKING FOR HARROWMONT) Bhelen: "I... you leave me speechless, Warden. But I salute your wisdom, late though it may have come."

3. Branka/Caridin chose Harrowmont.
(IF: WORKING FOR HARROWMONT) Harrowmont: "I appreciate your forthrightness, Warden. You have acted with grace through this entire torturous process." (VO: formal, appreciative)
(IF: WORKING FOR BHELEN) Harrowmont: "I... am somewhat surprised, Warden, given your previous predilections. But I am not ungrateful." (VO: uncertain, not quite trusting this) ****(Notes say original line was supposed to be "I ... am somewhat surprised, Warden, given your previous predilections. But I am not ungrateful that you have at last chosen the safest course for Orzammar.")

Modifié par Gilsa, 28 avril 2010 - 11:45 .

[Gilsa]

Re: Alistair and Bhelen looking alike

Sarah, just buy the PC game already. You've played the game a million times and you will keep playing it a million more times. Just get the PC and mod the hell out of it. Change one of their hairstyles, lol.

And you'd get your hands on the toolkit, too ...

@Conzuela -- Raar on your new avatar. Are you using the toolkit to create them?

@Costin  -- I like your colorful adjectives (i.e. "deadly dance for supremacy"). Nice twist with Gorim being the one with the blow. My only c/c (if that's OK) is that you repeated "down hard" twice back to back. Would just change up one of those to a different description. (Duran was thrown off his feed, crashing down hard on the stone rock.
Trian's maul coming down hard on him ...) Everything else was good.

@Sarah -- Herr Uhl has been saying that Gorim is a brown-noser ever since the VO dialogue was posted for everything Gorim could possibly say in origins. =p Plus he is a self-admitted douche. Said he even made his dwarf avatar to look douchey. ( Herr Uhl -- that made me laugh, btw.)

@Herr Uhl -- I agree that Leske should have been able to come along, but unfortunately Duncan doesn't recruit out of charity and Leske had not proven anything skill-wise to him. At least he didn't get hung in Orzammar because he wasn't technically with Brosca when Brosca got caught in Provings.

I think I'm all caught up now. BRB. Kid is suspicously quiet.

[Sarah1281]

Thanks, Gilsa.

I really wish Harrowmont had DN-specific dialogue at this point. Maybe not pointing out your exiled status as a reversal of his 'DN was framed' policy at that point would be a bad move but after you chose him at the end he could have said something like 'I'm grateful that you respected your father's final wises' or something. And his calling you an outsider who doesn't understand dwarven ways...it kind of rings false for DNs. He's not even following the terms of your exile and pretending not to know you (except when he explains what he's doing) so that can't be it. It was decent of them not to bring up the casteless thing for the DC but in Harrowmont's case that's probably more of a 'refusing to admit you existed before being a Warden' but Bhelen could hae easily said something and that he didn't is surprising.

Harrowmont the 'safer' choice? Probably. Bhelen's progressiveness in such a traditional society could have really gone either way and he, at least, never does anything but wait to hand the crown off to the DN...er, his successor.

[Sarah1281]

Re: Alistair and Bhelen looking alike

Sarah, just buy the PC game already. You've played the game a million times and you will keep playing it a million more times. Just get the PC and mod the hell out of it. Change one of their hairstyles, lol.

Oh, that would go over well with my dad. "Hey, dad, I know you already got me the game for XBox but I really need it for the PC, too, so that way I can make my character prettier and obsessively learn all the dialogue and instructions for the VO to get a better insight into the characters!" That's the problem with being a college student, I guess...

And I notice you didn't actually weigh in on whether they look alike...

Herr Uhl has been saying that Gorim is a brown-noser ever since the VO dialogue was posted for everything Gorim could possibly say in origins. =p Plus he is a self-admitted douche. Said he even made his dwarf avatar to look douchey.

Seriously, I don't know I like Trian so much. His journal has the only remotely redeeming quality you see from him in the entire game. Maybe it's because I know he's doomed and that always makes me more tolerant?

Modifié par Sarah1281, 29 avril 2010 - 12:27 .

[Gilsa]

They have the same hair, but I'm not really seeing it otherwise. I do get your logic though. And I thought the game was originally your brother's and you were playing it for free. My bad!

[Sarah1281]

Gilsa wrote...

They have the same hair, but I'm not really seeing it otherwise. I do get your logic though. And I thought the game was originally your brother's and you were playing it for free. My bad!

Ah, the wonders of 'joint gifts.'

[Herr Uhl]

I think Harrowmont claiming that you know nothing of dwarven politics even if you're an DN is insulting.

Gilsa wrote...

@Sarah -- Herr Uhl has been saying that Gorim is a brown-noser ever since the VO dialogue was posted for everything Gorim could possibly say in origins. =p Plus he is a self-admitted douche. Said he even made his dwarf avatar to look douchey. ( Herr Uhl -- that made me laugh, btw.)

Hey, I'm not a douche, my PC's are. At least that is what I'd like to think *sigh*.

[Sarah1281]

Hey, I'm not a douche, my PC's are. At least that is what I'd like to think *sigh*.

Do you have a picture of your douche DN PC?

Modifié par Sarah1281, 29 avril 2010 - 12:41 .

[Gilsa]

Yeah, show us your douche PCs!

Edit: And that's what I meant -- your PCs being the douches. /bonk

Modifié par Gilsa, 29 avril 2010 - 12:48 .

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Hey, I'm not a douche, my PC's are. At least that is what I'd like to think *sigh*.

Do you have a picture of your douche DN PC?

Nah, she misunderstood. He looks nice but is a douche at heart. It's the mage I made to resemble one, and my human noble.

I am thinking of making a ladydouche DN though. I have yet to do such an playthrough with a female. Though the Ejoslin way of making Alastair marry the HNF when he hates her and having Leli/Zevran on the side is tempting.

[Sarah1281]

Nah, she misunderstood. He looks nice but is a douche at heart. It's the mage I made to resemble one, and my human noble.

So is that why no one notices what a douche he is? He does have a lot of popuarity with the nobles Bhelen didn't bribe and the common people.

I am thinking of making a ladydouche DN though. I have yet to do such an playthrough with a female. Though the Ejoslin way of making Alastair marry the HNF when he hates her and having Leli/Zevran on the side is tempting.

Oh, why not do both? If you activte the romance with Gorim then proceed to treat him and everyone else terribly (except your father as it's not a good idea to ****** off the King if you want to stay the favorite) you can be an even bigger douche by making him feel guilty for getting married and wishing bad things on him and his 'ugly wife.' And for some reason he still likes you and wants your forgiveness if you do that...uber loyalty strikes again, I guess?

Modifié par Sarah1281, 29 avril 2010 - 01:05 .

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Nah, she misunderstood. He looks nice but is a douche at heart. It's the mage I made to resemble one, and my human noble.

So is that why no one notices what a douche he is? He does have a lot of popuarity with the nobles Bhelen didn't bribe and the common people.

His name is Melvin, how can anyone suspect that guy of being a machiavellian douchebag?

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 29 avril 2010 - 01:11 .

[Sarah1281]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Nah, she misunderstood. He looks nice but is a douche at heart. It's the mage I made to resemble one, and my human noble.

So is that why no one notices what a douche he is? He does have a lot of popuarity with the nobles Bhelen didn't bribe and the common people.

His name is Melvin, how can anyone suspect that guy of being a machiavellian douchebag?

Melvin huh? I have no idea...

And I'm glad someone gave this thread CPR. I was afraid we'd run out of dwarven things to talk about despite the fact dwarves kept coming up in other threads.

[Gilsa]

Nah, this thread will live on for a bit longer. I've got a dwarf artwork project that is slowly progressing in the background and when it's done, I plan on sharing with the thread. It's just stalled, atm, because of issues on multiple computers, but those are being resolved. Plus I'm an amateur so it takes longer for me to work on the drawings, too!

[Sarah1281]

That sounds promising. What's the subject? I mean, other than dwarves, obviously.

[Gilsa]

Hespith! It was inspired by the suicide conversation we had about her a dozen pages back and I thought she was just one of those great tragic characters that doesn't get enough love for her role in the story. Not even Branka misses her. =/

[thegreateski]

Hmm . . . now that I think about it . . . I have not seen much DA fan art.

Everyone seems content to take screenshots.

edit: Hell I just google image shearched for "Dragon age fan art" and a good deal of the first page was made up of Aimo's fan art and a few comics.

Meh. *goes back to Bioshock 2*

Modifié par thegreateski, 29 avril 2010 - 02:57 .

[Sarah1281]

Gilsa wrote...

Hespith! It was inspired by the suicide conversation we had about her a dozen pages back and I thought she was just one of those great tragic characters that doesn't get enough love for her role in the story. Not even Branka misses her. =/

At least she does if you talk her into suicide. Or at least she gets a "Hesith tried to warn me but I wouldn't listen!" She's thinking about her at least?

What I'm curious about is why Branka reacted the way the dwarves in Orzammar did towards Oghren. When she left he was a well-respected warrior and she had no way of knowing how that had changed and he really didn't act inappropriately during the scenes with her. I was, dare I say, impressed with how he handled it.

And it never occured to me that Oghren was grandstanding at the Assembly chambers but I guess given how they ignored his weekly pleas to find Branka for two years he was enjoying being important for once. I thought he'd just been making it sound more fitting for the accomplishment than the unromantic 'so yeah, we found Branka/Caridin' the Warden said.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 29 avril 2010 - 03:13 .

[Aisynia]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

Hespith! It was inspired by the suicide conversation we had about her a dozen pages back and I thought she was just one of those great tragic characters that doesn't get enough love for her role in the story. Not even Branka misses her. =/

At least she does if she talk her into suicide. Or at least she gets a "Hesith tried to warn me but I wouldn't listen!" She's thinking about her at least?

What I'm curious about is why Branka reacted the way the dwarves in Orzammar did towards Oghren. When she left he was a well-respected warrior and she had no way of knowing how that had changed and he really didn't act inappropriately during the scenes with her. I was, dare I say, impressed with how he handled it.

And it never occured to me that Oghren was grandstanding at the Assembly chambers but I guess given how they ignored his weekly pleas to find Branka for two years he was enjoying being important for once. I thought he'd just been making it sound more fitting for the accomplishment than the unromantic 'so yeah, we found Branka/Caridin' the Warden said.

Haven't read much of the thread..

...you can talk someone into suicide?

[thegreateski]

Aisynia wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

Hespith! It was inspired by the suicide conversation we had about her a dozen pages back and I thought she was just one of those great tragic characters that doesn't get enough love for her role in the story. Not even Branka misses her. =/

At least she does if she talk her into suicide. Or at least she gets a "Hesith tried to warn me but I wouldn't listen!" She's thinking about her at least?

What I'm curious about is why Branka reacted the way the dwarves in Orzammar did towards Oghren. When she left he was a well-respected warrior and she had no way of knowing how that had changed and he really didn't act inappropriately during the scenes with her. I was, dare I say, impressed with how he handled it.

And it never occured to me that Oghren was grandstanding at the Assembly chambers but I guess given how they ignored his weekly pleas to find Branka for two years he was enjoying being important for once. I thought he'd just been making it sound more fitting for the accomplishment than the unromantic 'so yeah, we found Branka/Caridin' the Warden said.

Haven't read much of the thread..

...you can talk someone into suicide?

Side with Branka.

Convince her that the anvil is evil.

She destroys it and then throws herself off a cliff . . . much to Oghren's dismay.

[Aisynia]

thegreateski wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

Gilsa wrote...

Hespith! It was inspired by the suicide conversation we had about her a dozen pages back and I thought she was just one of those great tragic characters that doesn't get enough love for her role in the story. Not even Branka misses her. =/

At least she does if she talk her into suicide. Or at least she gets a "Hesith tried to warn me but I wouldn't listen!" She's thinking about her at least?

What I'm curious about is why Branka reacted the way the dwarves in Orzammar did towards Oghren. When she left he was a well-respected warrior and she had no way of knowing how that had changed and he really didn't act inappropriately during the scenes with her. I was, dare I say, impressed with how he handled it.

And it never occured to me that Oghren was grandstanding at the Assembly chambers but I guess given how they ignored his weekly pleas to find Branka for two years he was enjoying being important for once. I thought he'd just been making it sound more fitting for the accomplishment than the unromantic 'so yeah, we found Branka/Caridin' the Warden said.

Haven't read much of the thread..

...you can talk someone into suicide?

Side with Branka.

Convince her that the anvil is evil.

She destroys it and then throws herself off a cliff . . . much to Oghren's dismay.

Sweet.

[Gilsa]

Well, my suicide reference was in reference to Hespith committing suicide after you kill the Broodmother. It is not obvious in the game that she killed herself, but the VO notes say as much. I'll see if I can find the page this conversation is on and link it. It wasn't very far back.