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[Costin_Razvan]

What does Shale say if you choose to preserve the Anvil? Is there any way to intimidate her back into the fold?

[Cypher0020]

Oh snap my thread is 85 pages??! Daaaaamn!



So yes.... allo everyone!

[Herr Uhl]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

What does Shale say if you choose to preserve the Anvil? Is there any way to intimidate her back into the fold?

No.

[Sarah1281]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

What does Shale say if you choose to preserve the Anvil? Is there any way to intimidate her back into the fold?

If Shale's with you, she'll defend Caridin. If she's not, you either have to lie that you don't know what happened to Caridin or lose a ton of influence and if you don't bribe her with the story of how she was created, I think she'll leave.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 29 avril 2010 - 03:55 .

[Aisynia]

Cypher0020 wrote...

Oh snap my thread is 85 pages??! Daaaaamn!

So yes.... allo everyone!

Hi~

[Aisynia]

Starting a new dwarf commoner run today. She's one character whose name I keep close to the default: Nahdia.

I think what bugs me the most about importing to awakening is this: Shouldn't those other dwarves be calling me a paragon? I mean, hasn't it been long enough?

Oh well.

Modifié par Aisynia, 29 avril 2010 - 02:52 .

[Aisynia]

Hmm.. you know the one thing that bugs me about playing a dwarf at all?



The way weapons (especially greatswords) clip with massive armor. It's really quite bad.



Has anyone created a mod that alters the rigging to set the weapon away from the body a bit more?

[Sarah1281]

Shouldn't those other dwarves be calling me a paragon?

Maybe they're still debating the issue? I mean, the epilogue says it took several months and all we really know is it took long enough for Oghren to have a child with Felsi, which puts it at probably at least eight months, right?

[Aisynia]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Shouldn't those other dwarves be calling me a paragon?

Maybe they're still debating the issue? I mean, the epilogue says it took several months and all we really know is it took long enough for Oghren to have a child with Felsi, which puts it at probably at least eight months, right?

At the very least yeah. HNF and Alistair are married, which took 6, and Oghren had a baby.. and we don't know how old the baby is. Less than a year, but I just felt it was something that would have been VERY rewarding.

[Aisynia]

Also, I assume no mod to alter sword rigging?

[Patriciachr34]

Not sure about the sword thing, but for the paragon I don't think that has happened yet. For my DC Sigrun does acknowledge that you're a hero to all the caste less as you've become a grey warden. She even mentions getting an autograph. I find it endearing and we become tight friends.

[Aisynia]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Not sure about the sword thing, but for the paragon I don't think that has happened yet. For my DC Sigrun does acknowledge that you're a hero to all the caste less as you've become a grey warden. She even mentions getting an autograph. I find it endearing and we become tight friends.

I didn't get that! 

Then again, I have neglected to finish my DC run through Awakening.. I am planning to this time around.

[sleepingbelow]

Aisynia wrote...

Hmm.. you know the one thing that bugs me about playing a dwarf at all?

The way weapons (especially greatswords) clip with massive armor. It's really quite bad.

Has anyone created a mod that alters the rigging to set the weapon away from the body a bit more?

This.  Totally eye-twitching.  

For Oghers and dwarven characters I've begun choosing weapons and armor on the basis of whether or not they clip.  It often becomes a reason to dust off Heavy Armor instead of Massive.

Modifié par sleepingbelow, 29 avril 2010 - 05:23 .

[Aisynia]

sleepingbelow wrote...

Aisynia wrote...

Hmm.. you know the one thing that bugs me about playing a dwarf at all?

The way weapons (especially greatswords) clip with massive armor. It's really quite bad.

Has anyone created a mod that alters the rigging to set the weapon away from the body a bit more?

This.  Totally eye-twitching.  

For Oghers and dwarven characters I've begun choosing weapons and armor on the basis of whether or not they clip.  It often becomes a reason to dust off Heavy Armor instead of Massive.

Which sucks, because I think the Warden Commander set looks BEST on a dwarf! 

Modifié par Aisynia, 29 avril 2010 - 05:34 .

[sleepingbelow]

Yeah, Aeducans really do tend to make armor look like Armani.

[Gilsa]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

Not sure about the sword thing, but for the paragon I don't think that has happened yet. For my DC Sigrun does acknowledge that you're a hero to all the caste less as you've become a grey warden. She even mentions getting an autograph. I find it endearing and we become tight friends.

I sooo agree. I love her the most on my commoner. I feel like there an invisible wall when my noble talks to other dwarves though. I don't really like how the class system comes into play, but it's understandable. The noble seems somewhat arrogant when she reminds Sigrun that she picked the new king of Orzammar, etc. The commoner is just happy someone has even heard of her. =p

[Gilsa]

Re: Awakening and the paragon thing



I didn't dwell on it too much. It seems that so little carried over from origins that it's just one of those little touches that didn't get put in. From what I saw, the only thing that mattered was who you put on the human throne, and to a much lesser extent, who you put on the dwarven throne. The human royalty makes a cameo and the dwarven royalty just gets mentioned by name once or twice if you talk to the dwarf in camp. (If starting as Orlesian, the dwarf just says "the king" by default.)



I like Awakening, but part of me wonders if any of this stuff will actually matter or will be imported into sequels. Kind of kills the motivation to fire up more games.

[Sarah1281]

The noble seems somewhat arrogant when she reminds Sigrun that she picked the new king of Orzammar, etc.

I'm sure they weren't trying to be. It's just that Sigrun is still stuck in the 'hey, aren't you supposed to be dead stage' everyone was in when they first got back to Orzammar and now that they're a Paragon and everyone loves them again they don't want a throw-back to that one year they they might very well refuse to acknowledge happened (at least the exile part).

[Gilsa]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

What does Shale say if you choose to preserve the Anvil? Is there any way to intimidate her back into the fold?

Branka: "No! The Anvil is mine! No one will take it from me!" (VO: crazed, impassioned)
Caridin: "Shayle... you fought to destroy the Anvil once! Do not allow it to fall into unthinking hands again!"
Shale: "You speak of things I do not remember. You say we fought... did you use our control rods to command us to do so?" (VO: struggling with the concept, trying to figure out where she should stand)
Caridin: "I destroyed the rods! Perhaps my apprentices eventually learned to replace the rods, I do not know, but if so, then all they need is the Anvil to make all the slaves they need!"
Caridin: "You! Please... help me destroy the Anvil! Do not let it enslave more souls than it already has!"

<filler argument here with Caridin/Branka fighting to persuade you>

PC: "You're right. It's too powerful not to keep."
Shale: "I... I am not sure what to believe. Whatever I once was, it no longer matters." (VO: pondering, uncertain)
Shale: "Still, I believe this anvil should be destroyed. I would see no more convenient slaves be created." (VO: determined)
Shale: "If it decides not to destroy the artifact... I will stand with Caridin. I hope it does not force me to." (VO: reluctant -- but firm, she will not move from this position)
PC: "I'm sorry, but the Anvil is needed."
Shale: "And I cannot allow it to exist. Caridin, I am yours to command." (VO: grim. ACTION: Shale leaves the party and turns to serve Caridin.)
Caridin: "And I welcome your presence." (VO: welcoming the help at such an important time)
Caridin: "I cannot allow you to do this, stranger. To me, golems! Defend the Anvil, whatever the cost!" (VO: grim)



There is no way to talk Shale out of this.

[Gilsa]

While we're on the subject of the Anvil, thought I'd share a few more interesting tidbits.

Racial persuasions from Caridin:

Caridin: "You! Please... help me destroy the Anvil! Do not let it enslave more souls than it already has!"
PC: "Why should I let your guilt inconvenience me?"

(Dwarf) Caridin: "How would you feel to know you've been torn from all the spirits that had come before you, that you would never rest with the ancestors?" (VO: making the strongest argument he can muster)

(Elf) Caridin: "Your own people were slaves once, were they not? Would you force the very souls of others into slavery for eternity?" (VO: making the strongest argument he can muster)

(Human) Caridin: "Your people on the surface believe that some magics are never worth the price of their use. Can you not see this is one of them?" (VO: making the strongest argument he can muster)

Modifié par Gilsa, 29 avril 2010 - 06:33 .

[Sarah1281]

Gilsa wrote...

While we're on the subject of the Anvil, thought I'd share a few more interesting tidbits.

Racial persuasions from Caridin:

Caridin: "You! Please... help me destroy the Anvil! Do not let it enslave more souls than it already has!"
PC: "Why should I let your guilt inconvenience me?"

(Dwarf) Caridin: "How would you feel to know you've been torn from all the spirits that had come before you, that you would never rest with the ancestors?" (VO: making the strongest argument he can muster)

(Elf) Caridin: "Your own people were slaves once, were they not? Would you force the very souls of others into slavery for eternity?" (VO: making the strongest argument he can muster)

(Human) Caridin: "Your people on the surface believe that some magics are never worth the price of their use. Can you not see this is one of them?" (VO: making the strongest argument he can muster)

The dwarf argument strikes me as the most persuasive as he knows the most about the dwarf viewpoint, followed by the elf one as it doesn't have to be enslaving unwilling souls (although it probably will at some point), and last the human one. I mean, mabye if you buy into the Chantry stance but where's the fun in that?

And the dwarf is extra convincing for the DN as that was essentially waht happened to them with their exile (until the Post-coronation) and somewhat less so for the DC because they already had no ancestors but if they were bitter about this it could add to the pathos.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 29 avril 2010 - 06:37 .

[Gilsa]

GOOD CHARACTERS TRY TO CONVINCE PLAYER TO DESTROY THE ANVIL:

Alistair: "You must destroy the Anvil, while you have the chance." (VO: urging)
Alistair: "As long as it exists, one day you... or I, may fall under the hammer. Remember that." (VO: urging)

Wynne: "No one should be given dominion over another's soul. If anyone should know that best, it is a golem." (VO: righteous)
Wynne: "It is powerful, yes, but at far too high a price!" (VO: urging)

Sten: "The dwarf woman has madness for her excuse. What's yours?" (VO: pointed)
Sten: "Let us be done with this." (VO: impatient)
PC: "Doesn't the Qun force others into service?"
Sten: "The Qun is a path one follows, not a chain that binds." (VO: offended)

Leliana: "The Anvil's power goes against everything I know to be right." (VO: righteous)


BAD CHARACTERS TRY TO CONVINCE PLAYER TO KEEP THE ANVIL:

(WITH WYNNE IN PARTY)
Morrigan: "Have you no desire to discover this anvil's potential? It is a marvel, a tool of creation!" (VO: in awe)
(IF: Wynne_InParty) Wynne: "Even the best of tools may be misused. This is a thing of blood magic, of destruction!" (VO: appalled)
Morrigan: "Sometimes creation involves the destruction of one thing to make way for another. 'Tis a law of nature that death is the parent to life." (VO: scornful, arguing her point against someone she believes is foolish)
Morrigan: "If you destroy the Anvil, I swear you will regret it." (VO: A bit power-hungry)

(WITH LELIANA IN PARTY)
Morrigan: "Have you no desire to discover this anvil's potential? It is a marvel, a tool of creation!" (VO: in awe)
Morrigan: "You could rival the Maker Himself with this instrument!" (VO: in awe)
Leliana: "It is this hubris that drove the Maker from us!" (VO: appalled)
Morrigan: "If you destroy the Anvil, I swear you will regret it." (VO: A bit power-hungry)

1. Then I suppose I will regret it.
Morrigan: "Fool!" (VO: derisive)

2. And how would you like to become a golem?
(IF: Medium Intimidate) Morrigan: "You would not dare!" (VO: indignant)
2a. Wouldn't I, if I cared only for power?
2b. How do you know?
2c. Wouldn't you like to become a big stone machine?
2a, 2b, 2c all lead to:
Morrigan: "I would rather not find out. Fine, destroy it if it pleases you." (VO: backs down reluctantly)

(IF: Not Persuaded) Morrigan: "*Laughs* You think empty threats will make me sympathize with these stone men? Ha!" (VO: derisive)


Zevran: "Living souls suffer all the time. Peasants working the land are trapped, but we do not go about destroying farmland, do we?" (VO: mocking, sarcastic)
(IF: Alistair in party) Alistair: "Farmers don't toil in the fields for all eternity. That's hardly a valid comparison!"
(VO: indignant
Zevran: "It just seems a waste to destroy the Anvil, given what it could do." (VO: greedy, wants the anvil for himself)
PC: "And how would you like to become a golem?"
(IF: medium_intimidate) Zevran: "Now let's not be unreasonable. You wouldn't do *that*, surely." (dismissive, doesn't believe player would do it)
1. How do you know?
2.Wouldn't you like to become a big stone machine?
3. Wouldn't I, if I only cared for power?
1, 2, 3 all lead to:
Zevran: "All right, all right. Perhaps destroying it *is* a good idea." (backs down, wry)

(IF: not_intimidate) Zevran: "Then I'd be as hard as a rock all the time. *Laughs* See? There is a bright side to everything, huh?" (VO: joking, lecherous)

Modifié par Gilsa, 29 avril 2010 - 06:59 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Ah yes, how every one of your companions sees it only on a personal level. I am thinking of a Grand Level.

Those golems could save countless dwarven lives, and many human/elven/werewolf lives in the battle that is to come. I always choose Bhelen as king and I know he will only use it fight darkspawn, even though he sends off politicians as well to it. ( and most Dwarf Nobles are jackasses anyway )

"The price of war is life. You pay it."

"War is cruel, and in it there is no such thing as innocence. Only the living and the dead and the degrees of guilt both bear. " - Loghain Mac Tir.

For me it is not a moral decision, it is a grand strategy decision. Those golems are strong as hell.

Gilsa: Tell me this though, what do good companions tell you should you persuade them otherwise?

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 29 avril 2010 - 07:04 .

[Gilsa]

"War is the business of warriors." - Paragon Aeducan (from a codex entry)

And there is no persuade check. You either say "The Anvil is needed. That is my order!" or "Then I will destroy it. It will forge no more souls." And then either Caridin or Branka begin their rallying cry and you proceed to either gain or lose approval points with the party members, based on your decision. There is no further conversation from them. Morrigan and Zevran are the only ones you actively argue with.

Edit: And Bhelen also sends off the sons of Harrowmont supporters to punish them as well. I love how it's truly a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation with who you put on the throne.

Modifié par Gilsa, 29 avril 2010 - 07:13 .

[Cuddlezarro]

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