103 réponses à ce sujet

[JSS]

I swear morrigan says that she sees the darkspawn feeding on the corpses of the dead soilders after the battle near ostagar. And when Utha pulls out the double club she never had it before...she never actually carried a weapon on her! Maric describes this then all of a sudden she wips out a double club aye? I am gonna have to go back over these parts of the story to figure it out.

I only made an account on these forums so i could discuss this.

Modifié par JSS, 03 avril 2010 - 06:44 .

[JSS]

Nukenin wrote...

Servant of Nature wrote...

[…]
She'd make for a ****** poor fight, then, yes?

I suppose so.  I'm too busy crying in the corner because I just realized I've yet to read Gaider's two books (I have them on Kindle, so they're in the ol' reading queue!) and I have yet to encounter this character we're discussing in the game.

So I've been massively spoilt.  

Female models don't have a bald option?  Or was there some other limitation?

We need an unarmed school and the background (and of course clever animations) to support it.

Dont worry.....she doesent say much lol

[Fernand]

if we want to take the books as canon lore,then Alistair was way mistaken about his origins,i guess the books are loosely based on the lore.

[Mystiana]

Edit: naive derp moment...nothing to see here  <_<

Modifié par Mystiana, 05 avril 2010 - 05:17 .

[Indoctrination]

David Gaider wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...
Did he? Weird. Is this true David?

No, I did not say such a thing.

JSS wrote...
lol yeah this ain't a plot hole but just a stuff
up in the lore. Could fix this easy by telling of how the dark spawn
came to eat. I pretty sure tho that the only thing that drives them is
the calling.

Are you asking? Or is a "stuff up in the lore" just anything you didn't understand?

The darkspawn don't need to eat. And other than the frightened tales of some soldiers, nobody claims that they do.

It's been a while, so maybe I'm not remembering this correctly, but didn't it say in The Stolen Throne that the darkspawn and giant spiders feed on each other?

[Mystiana]

yep

[tuckar]

in the calling the architect had his hand severed, but somehow manages to find a prostetic surgeon in ferelden to replace his hand in awakening...strange.

[Brockololly]

tuckar wrote...

in the calling the architect had his hand severed, but somehow manages to find a prostetic surgeon in ferelden to replace his hand in awakening...strange.

When in doubt, a wizard did it:wizard:

[Jason310M]

Big deal...

[TheMadCat]

It's been a while, so maybe I'm not remembering this correctly, but didn't it say in The Stolen Throne that the darkspawn and giant spiders feed on each other?

It did, but if I remember correctly it was being told through Maric's POV so that could fall in line with "frightened tales".

[thesuperdarkone]

you want another plot hole? heres one, the description of the reaver specialization states that it is taught by demons but in game you get it by some different means that doesn't involve demons so WTF is wrong with the description?

[DIrishB]

Fernand wrote...

if we want to take the books as canon lore,then Alistair was way mistaken about his origins,i guess the books are loosely based on the lore.

Not that loosely at all...Alistair was in the dark about who his real mother was.  He was told one thing while another was true...no problems that I see.

[helios0684]

I really do not think the Darkspawn issue was the largest plothole in the game. If I recall correctly, there were several issues in Chantry lore (though it is strongly alluded that the Chantry is making it up as they go along, explaining some of the inconsistencies) and contradicting historical accounts in the Codex. There are simply too many potential inconsistencies that come up in a game like this and I have to give the team kudos for making it as polished and well written as they did -- especially with how massive DA:O is and how many potential routes one can take.



There were a few niggling main plot related holes (don't remember them exactly) -- I do recall one where a particular character is dead and another character references that particular NPC is just ahead -- it's obviously a script event, so I think probably what happened is a flag or variable wasn't flipped. It really was not that important, because in real life -- if someone was not informed of a certain event or witnessed said event -- they could easily make that mistake. Most inconsistencies I found and plotholes had far more to do, I think with rewrites / deliberate inconsistencies / deadlines and writing certain issues off as too big of a hassle / costly to fix -- especially if most people would never even notice / see them in a playthrough.



On the other hand, it could have been done deliberately -- Morrigan as a character is far from truthful. She's cold and manipulative, and there are people who have their own myths about the darkspawn anyway.



As far as other plotholes stemming from the novels, I have not read The Calling, so it's not my place to comment on that. I thought Stolen Throne was a decent adventure novel however and served as a decent prelude to DA:O. Even then, there might have been a few inconsistencies. I found the Chantry actually to be the most problematic. There are some rather significant inconsistencies, that reflect the inconsistencies of several major world religions. Of course, BioWare always has wry social commentary in their games -- whether its one offs in character banter, or significant themes.



I've gotten off on a tangent there, so let me finish this up by saying this about the Darkspawn: They are orc/goblinoid analogues and in many fantasy games, they do capture people and eat them. It probably would not be a stretch to believe that darkspawn eat people, just like there are people who have eaten darkspawn flesh -- not going to get too into specifics as this is a spoiler free zone, but yea. And of course, scared, frightened, provincial people will create all sorts of stories about a looming menace. And the Darkspawn usually show up only for a short while before they are beaten back (at least en masse -- have not played DA:A yet!), at least in previous encounters, it is unlikely that anyone really bothers to document them outside of the things that turn into myth, legend, and folktales -- especially given that the world of Dragon Age is closely analogued to Low Medieval Europe (Think King Arthur, Charlemagne, Beowulf, etc.) with -some- elements of the Renaissance in places like Antiva and Orlais.

[MachDelta]

Indoctrination wrote...
It's been a while, so maybe I'm not remembering this correctly, but didn't it say in The Stolen Throne that the darkspawn and giant spiders feed on each other?

Sort of. I dug out the book to check:

(Spoilers!)

They passed an area full of old spider corpses. Some of them were easily twice the size of the creatures they had fought, old and desiccated husks that were dusty and brittle to the touch. Most of them were in pieces.
"Something ate these," Lohhain pointed out.
"Ate the spiders? " Maric made a disgusted face. "Maybe it was revenge."
"Maybe whatever ate them doesn't care what it eats," Rowan remarked.
"Darkspawn," Katriel said ominously, and then scowled when the others looked at her reproachfully. "There is no need to avoid the truth. Obviously they hunt each other."

Emphasis mine.
Aside from the characters not being omniscient, all the book seems to imply is that the darkspawn will eat anything. Not that they actually have a need to eat; they just seem to crave destruction.

[Stoomkal]

Wow... a thread about David Gaider's books versus the game lore... again.

This has come up before...

I am actually *very* suprised at the amount of issues that litter David's books, or the number of times he has clarified inconsistencies on these boards. I mean, he was the primary writer for the DA setting, and yet the books can really only be said to be "loosely" based on the game world, for many reasons.

I would regard them about as well as fan-fiction.

Apart from the fact that the books do have some mistakes in them on his side, he also had submitted the *wrong* manuscript to the publisher the first time, leading to an error in chronology and character ages.

There is also the Duncan biography that is completely different, or the number of differences in the Darkspawn, such as the color of their blood or their eating habits - very different stuff than the information we have in Origins.

Add to this we now have the "Architect 2.00" perhaps the most gaping plot hole in the cycle. His descriptions in the Calling and his appearance in Awakening could very well make you think you were dealing with an entirely different being. One is a typical looking Darkspawn in dirty robes, missing one hand, and the other is... completely different. The "technical problems" involving Utha pale in comparison to the *textual difficulties* present.

So... I would disregard David's books for the majority. They aren't really helping... and even the design teams seem to ignore the work as barely relevant. 

Perhaps take the same attitude.

[Nukenin]

Wait til you see what he has in store for Dragon Age II: Origin [sic], which takes place thirty years after the events of Dragon Age: Origins and positions the darkbred as a new threat to Fereldas.  The mighty Gray Warders are founded by the warrior-priest Dunkin to protect fight what turns into a threat against all Thedarian—the Blightplague.

In the third novel, Dragon Age: The Felling of Trees, the backstory of the rogue mage Dunkeen is fleshed out, recounting his beginnings as a lowly ward of the Chanter's Circle, his capture by the nefarious Temple of the Magerium, and his rescue by the Gray Riders of the Grey, who ride the Dark Dragons and are mounting a rebellion alongsize the Quranik Dwarf Legions to liberate Fereldia from the oppression of the Archblighters and their Plaguespawn, while the Archblighters and their allies the Blood Elves of the Deep Dales seek to spread their dominion over all of Thedorzammar and the Outer Alliance.

This all ties into the story behind Dragon Age III: Original Origins Story Origin which finds the player's family captured by the sinister Dunker, the Pirate d'Orllys, and his Grey Waders of the Gray Waters, when the player is but a child.  Ten years later, the player's character is crewed to a sailing vessel flying the flag of Ferdinandelden, but the captain proves to be a harsh mistress and soon the player's character finds themselves the head of a successful mutiny.  From that point, the player's character plies his trade as a Pirate or Ninja or Guttermage and leads his dragonship crew into the Plaguesea, eventually finding clues to the location of his family and the villainous Dunker, leading to a resounding finale and cliffhanger that will set up the events of the fourth novel, Dragon Age: The Age of Dragons.

As you can see, the novels and games combine to form an intricate web of cleverly plotted intrigue and deception set against the backdrop of a studied reexamination of the priorities of individual patterned exhibitive quandaries in a gestalt of transflective alliterative schemata.

D.G. has only begun to exercise his tactical genius at storycraft here.  When all 17 chapters of the Dragon Age saga come to their inevitable conclusion, even his harshest detractors will be crying tears of joy and despondence, and laying wreaths of evergreen and honeysuckle at the base of—and delicately nuzzling the gilt toenails of the feet of—the statue that serves as the public face of his eternal temple and gift shoppe and package delivery exception training camp.

<_<



_______
(with apologies as necessary, esp. to D.G., B'ware, S.M. and F'xis :innocent:)

Modifié par Nukenin, 04 avril 2010 - 01:41 .

[Icematt12]

As a newbie to Dragon Age it was alreadt established to me that Darkspawn feasted on the dead at Ostigar by Morrigan speaking to you just after lighting the beacon. They dragged the living underground and eat the dead, she said she saw this herself and not learnt through conversation. At this point, no other interpretation is possible.

Now I hear that some book states that Darkspwan never eat, Sounds like a definate contrast, unless Morrigan is mistaken and the Darkspawn happened to do something else.

Modifié par Icematt12, 04 avril 2010 - 03:11 .

[AOPotter]

Interesting that no one seems to begrudge them the biggest plot hole: that the Grey Wardens are able to "sense" Darkspawn and yet get ambushed left and right by them.

[ModerateOsprey]

AOPotter wrote...

Interesting that no one seems to begrudge them the biggest plot hole: that the Grey Wardens are able to "sense" Darkspawn and yet get ambushed left and right by them.

There was quite a discussion about a month ago regarding the taint - i.e why are companions in DAO not killed by darkspawn blood?

[Fernand]

Mystiana wrote...

Fernand wrote...

if we want to take the books as canon lore,then Alistair was way mistaken about his origins,i guess the books are loosely based on the lore.

just shows that Alistair didn't study his family history as well as he should have 

well,if he found out about his bastardary & half-sister,i fail to see how he missed THAT,it just shows u how the grey wardens are so desperate to let people like Alistair join their ranks

[Fernand]

DIrishB wrote...

Fernand wrote...

if we want to take the books as canon lore,then Alistair was way mistaken about his origins,i guess the books are loosely based on the lore.

Not that loosely at all...Alistair was in the dark about who his real mother was.  He was told one thing while another was true...no problems that I see.

i fail to see why someone would keep that a secret,while several people know about him being Maric's son,another thing i wondered about,if his mother was [spoiler] a grey warden,doesn't that makes him automatically one as well???[end spoiler]....or what?

[AntiChri5]

David has said a Warden has normal kids and two wardens have no kids.



This is, of course, unless magic is involved.

[astrallite]

You can't win here. If the someone in the game/book/codex says something that contradicts the something else, then that person is lying. If there is too much corroborated reference, then the "nobody ever said the codex/books were factual."



There is an escape clause to everything.