103 réponses à ce sujet

[Srau]

zahra wrote...

GithCheater wrote...

Has it been established why our non-warden have not succumbed to the Darkspawn taint?

Also, why did Oghren bother becoming a grey warden when he practically bathed in darkspawn blood ... and nothing happened?

This was something I always wondered. The other companions practically bathed in darkspawn blood all the time, why didn't they succumb to the sickness? (esp after running around in the deep roads for ages).

Doesn't Riordan says that for the joining you need 2 things for the *drink* : fresh darkspawn blood + archdemon blood ?
That would explain why GW do not become ghouls and, other way around, why people fighting darkspawns don't die in secondes or become a GW.
Now the real question would be : how the first GWs were created since they killed Dumat the first Archdemon ?

[Wozza78]

Good point... the chicken or the egg?

[Wozza78]

One second... Duncan said that the ritual also required mages...or they at least had to do something with the blood which was collected in the wilds. Perhaps, although we dont see it the mages have to perform some kind of enchantment (Enchantment? Enchantment!) on the blood too which causes it to rect differently upon those who imbibe it?

[mousestalker]

David Gaider wrote...

Icematt12 wrote...
As a newbie to Dragon Age it was alreadt established to me that Darkspawn feasted on the dead at Ostigar by Morrigan speaking to you just after lighting the beacon. They dragged the living underground and eat the dead, she said she saw this herself and not learnt through conversation. At this point, no other interpretation is possible.

Now I hear that some book states that Darkspwan never eat, Sounds like a definate contrast, unless Morrigan is mistaken and the Darkspawn happened to do something else.

Sigh.

First off, I said that darkspawn don't need to eat. They don't need food in order to survive. If they bite or feast upon something, it is for other reasons -- which most people may not entirely be aware of.

But... whatever. If someone wants to sniff at it and suggest the books are fanfic, go right ahead. Knock yourselves out.

I rather liked the books. I certainly hope that writing them was profitable for you, as I very much would like to read more of what you write. 

[SarEnyaDor]

They need mages, lyrium, archdemon blood, darkspawn blood, and probably some herbs for taste. It's all prepared off camera so it could be a super complex and magic-intensive process or they could throw it all into a pot and stir it together.



I had a good long laugh at the person who referred to the books as fanfiction. I seriously needed a belly laugh this morning, so thanks for that. =D

[Herr Uhl]

Srau wrote...

Doesn't Riordan says that for the joining you need 2 things for the *drink* : fresh darkspawn blood + archdemon blood ?
That would explain why GW do not become ghouls and, other way around, why people fighting darkspawns don't die in secondes or become a GW.
Now the real question would be : how the first GWs were created since they killed Dumat the first Archdemon ?

It's all about the corruption levels. You only need sufficient corruption, which can be brought from regular darkspawn blood with magic, or use blood with a richer bouqet.

And you can kill the body of an archdemon without being a GW, but the archdemon reincarnates in one of the darkspawn.

[Wozza78]

No wonder so many Grey Wardens die during the ritual...no one seems to know what it actually entails. I guesse that is the reason Duncan was so scetchy about its details in the beginning. He was still making them up



Duncan: "So that's one part Darkspawn blood, one part Arch Demon Blood, dark soy sauce to taste, add the egg, and beat."

[mousestalker]

If they're adding raw egg, no wonder it's dangerous. That salmonella is a killer.

[Nukenin]

I like my Joining ritual drinks with a hint of lime and mint.  A Joining ritual mojito, if you will.

Ah, refreshing!

 

[Addai]

Wozza78 wrote...
 C'mon people is it beyond the realms of possibility that she was simply saying those things because she is a wee bit of a btich? (and yes I know I spelled it incorrectly)

Uh... I fail to see the logic.  Even if I agreed that Morrigan is evil, which I don't, she has no reason to lie about this.  As I mentioned, we see the ogre apparently stuffing blood and gore into his mouth in the Tower of Ishal.  Or did Morrigan cast an illusion on the PC there because she's such a b*tch?  LOL

Obviously darkspawn do something which appears to people to be feeding on victims.  What I read Gaider saying above is that this is not because they need humans for food, but for some other reason unknown.

[master-fluff]

Hespith:

First day, they come and catch everyone.

Second day, they beat us and eat some for meat.

Third day, the men are all gnawed on again.



Sounds like they eat to me. And that third line suggests they even eat men alive, slowly. Maybe darkspawn have to eat men before they can violate a female and turn her into a broodmother. Maybe eating is like a darkspawn viagra. lolz

[KnightofPhoenix]

master-fluff wrote...

Hespith:
First day, they come and catch everyone.
Second day, they beat us and eat some for meat.
Third day, the men are all gnawed on again.

Sounds like they eat to me. And that third line suggests they even eat men alive, slowly. Maybe darkspawn have to eat men before they can violate a female and turn her into a broodmother. Maybe eating is like a darkspawn viagra. lolz

That doesn't mean that they need to eat.
From the way they do things, it seems to me to be some sort of ritual when making a broodmother.

[Mystiana]

first of all forgive me for not being eloquent in speech and also if I'm just repeating things that have already been discussed in full.  I can't blame english being my second language so I'll blame lack of caffeine instead.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

I don't really see how one can think the books aren't lore...years have gone by between the books and origin, and you think the Architect may not change his clothing style once during that time? or perhaps have his hand regen if what ppl are saying is true about darkspawn and regeneration (can't remember seeing that, but it doesn't mean it's not there somewhere)...many things can change in the course of a few years after all.

many of the "inconsistancies"  ppl are seeing, I believe, are a result of either pov, old wives tales, or simply a misunderstanding:

1:   Utha's club...had it all the time but used it only when she believed her hands couldn't do the job...she's pretty  kick-ass so it was never needed 'til the dragon...after all, Duncan had that one blade tucked in his pack and nobody knew about it or saw it 'til the end of The Calling
2:   darkspawns  eating...sure they can if they want, but even in the book Bregan said he went days w/out food and didn't feel hungry (I know, he was a special  case but that doesn't mean that situation isn't true for the others...plus if David Gaider, the guy who -wrote- the book and game says it's cannon...then damn skippy it's cannon!)...I mean, isn't it -possible-  ppl would see the savage attacks and -think- the victims were being eaten when in reality they were just being torn to shreds by the darkspawns' teeth?  I know I wouldn't stick around and watch to see if the thing swallowed!

only part that really confuses me off-hand (and I'm sure it's my understanding, not lore, so pls help me out here).  I know who Alistair's true parents are and the story they made up for him to believe.  Problem:  I'm under the impression that Goldanna is older than Alistair since she refers to him as "the babe", but it also seems like their mother died in childbirth...how is that possible??   I guess I'm wondering if she really is his half-sister or actually a sister purely thru adoption, only led to believe their blood sibs.

======

Edit: for stupid spacing probs

Modifié par Mystiana, 05 avril 2010 - 06:09 .

[Poleaxe]

Addai67 wrote...

Wozza78 wrote...
 C'mon people is it beyond the realms of possibility that she was simply saying those things because she is a wee bit of a btich? (and yes I know I spelled it incorrectly)

Uh... I fail to see the logic.  Even if I agreed that Morrigan is evil, which I don't, she has no reason to lie about this.  As I mentioned, we see the ogre apparently stuffing blood and gore into his mouth in the Tower of Ishal.  Or did Morrigan cast an illusion on the PC there because she's such a b*tch?  LOL

Obviously darkspawn do something which appears to people to be feeding on victims.  What I read Gaider saying above is that this is not because they need humans for food, but for some other reason unknown.

Are ogres even darkspawn? Perhaps they are simply another race allied with the dark spawn?

[Daerog]

Poleaxe wrote...

Are ogres even darkspawn? Perhaps they are simply another race allied with the dark spawn?

Possible spoilers in my posts.

Ogres are darkspawn who come from Broodmothers that were once Qunari females.

On the note of darkspawn eating. Sure, why not eat? Doesn't mean they digest their food. Even in the Calling, the darkspawn bit Bregen a bunch when he tried to escape. Those teeth are meant for shredding, see how long and pointy they are?

[wwwwowwww]

Amazing to me people are actually disputing what the guy who created it all is saying

[Xanfaus]

David Gaider wrote...

First off, I said that darkspawn don't need to eat. They don't need food in order to survive. If they bite or feast upon something, it is for other reasons -- which most people may not entirely be aware of.

Only tangentially related to the discussion, but is there any possibility that we will be able to play as a darkspawn/have a darkspawn party member in a sequel or an expansion? I think it would help flesh out the darkspawn for those of us who might not want to dive into the novels.

Mass effect did it with the geth and made them much more interesting, but then again the geth were not the primary antagonists so its not a completely equal comparison.

[Suron]

David Gaider wrote...

There must be a definition of "plot hole" at work here with which I'm not familiar.

all due respect....but...of course you're not...

you won't face your baby being flawed would ya...esp since...DING DING DING you wrote the books.

there's numerous plot holes and inconcistancies between the books vs game and game vs game.

Even if you don't want to admit to them

btw loved both books..but afraid to say the calling wasn't as good as the stolen throne..and duncan was a tool.

[Daerog]

Xanfaus wrote...

Only tangentially related to the discussion, but is there any possibility that we will be able to play as a darkspawn/have a darkspawn party member in a sequel or an expansion? I think it would help flesh out the darkspawn for those of us who might not want to dive into the novels.

Mass effect did it with the geth and made them much more interesting, but then again the geth were not the primary antagonists so its not a completely equal comparison.

We never played as a geth in ME2. We used a platform filled with over a thousand geth, and Legion was just a squadmate. If we ever had to play as a geth, that would be very weird playing a game with almost 0 emotional responses.

On the note of playing as a darkspawn, I would have originally said that they are soulless vessels which have no personality, but then the Calling and Awakening came out.
Anyway, here's your first mission as a newly awakened darkspawn: find a female on the surface, bring her down, completely destroy her with the blight to create a broodmother, then try to reason with all the people who come down to kill you that you are a sympathetic creature who only wishes the best for his people at the expense of others.
(not meaning to be insulting to Xanfaus' post, just what my thoughts were on playing as a darkspawn)

[Stoomkal]

Nukenin wrote...

Stoomkal wrote...

If you are not calling the shots as to how a character *looks*... and you know your events may be totally changed...

How is that not fan-fiction?

I need some convincing that the books are even relevant after the appearance of "Architect 2.0"... there is not much that these books got right, really...

Relevance?  Let me clue you in to something neither books nor game got right.  There are no Grey Wardens.  Ferelden is a lie.  Thus, neither books nor game are relevant.  Therefore, both books and game are fan-fiction.  Q.E.D.

You can now safely remove yourself from the Dragon Age scope, dismissing everything associated with Dragon Age (game, books, action figures, T-shirts, etc) as "fan-fiction" and "irrelevant", patting your fed troll stomach in content.

I seriously doubt when I finally get to D.G.'s books in my Kindle "queue", that partway through I will hurl the Kindle against the wall, scream "OH NO HE DIDN'T!", drop to the floor, and spin circles on my side, yelling incoherently, until such time as the orderlies burst in and drag me in a straitjacket back to the padded cell.  (Or when I reach relevant points in Awakening, whichever happens later I suppose.)

Anywho, fan fiction.  Perhaps you should read up on a generally accepted overview of the term.  If D.G. is writing under commission or by approval of the I.P. owner (Bioware/EA I suppose), then what he writes is not "fan-fiction", except I suppose in entirely delusional cases.

If he were to, on his own, without explicit approval of Bioware/EA, write a story detailing Duncan's hitherto-undocumented randy adventures with good King Maric one drunken night, then that there would be fan fiction.  Since D.G. is a "face" of the property, with the caveat that anything related to the property he produces may be taken to be implicitly official despite any explicit statements to the contrary, he'd probably receive a cease-and-desist (informally and then formally as necessary) long before any similarly infringing "obscure" fan work would (especially since the latter have an "official unofficial" home on these forums).

In conclusion, .

...

Er... no... just... No.

What I am saying is - regardless of his official capacity as lead writer - this has the literary standards of fan fiction.

Are you familiar with Literature?

Take a guess how many writers create a story in their own worlds and proceed to get the elements and story wrong from book to book?

Not many... most would be too embarassed to admit such a thing and would work hard to resolve these issues textually.

Simply saying "the author is never wrong" is an idea that went out with literary criticism in the sixties - truly.

All you have said, in a rather derogatory way, is that these are "official" mistakes, because he is the lead writer.

Wow. That is... okay then?

What I am saying is that the *whole* design team have looked at David's books, and shrugged, regarding alot of the material as irrelevant, and changing the rest.

This means the DA setting lacks consistency and common sense, and has become contradictory.

Are you saying that is okay if it is "official" contradiction... 

Good Work.

[Addai]

Stoomkal wrote...

What I am saying is that the *whole* design team have looked at David's books, and shrugged, regarding alot of the material as irrelevant, and changing the rest.

This means the DA setting lacks consistency and common sense, and has become contradictory.

Are you saying that is okay if it is "official" contradiction... 

Good Work.

Do you type in Oxbridge accent, by any chance?  Because your post sounds rather snooty. 

I see the game as an adaptation the same way that a movie is an adaptation, one which works closely with the author/ screenplay writer, but for which liberties are taken because the market is different, the creative needs are different.  Don't let's get all up in the junk about Literature.  For some people science fiction or fantasy is never literature, and for others a story can't be tainted with popular culture in any way or it becomes suspect.  Is that what is going on here?

All this, besides the fact that it is rather confusing to accuse an author of "fan"fiction.  Who's he a fan of- himself?  LOL  And just what "errors" are so terribly egregious that they have corrupted his works?

Modifié par Addai67, 06 avril 2010 - 06:54 .

[Stoomkal]

No...

Fantasy and Sci-Fi are genres - that makes them literature.

A book filled with errors is like a book filled with typos - not good. It is the difference between a real piece of critical material and a school essay.

David's books may qualify as "pulp teen fiction" but that is about all. For Gawd's Sake... the man couldn't even get his own ideas correct about his own world!

And it is clearly not "his"... the development team have barely paid lip-service to it, which is one of my points.

Why give the books any credibility when the DA team doesn't and the author doesn't bother to get the details right of the world?

If I wrote a "Middle Earth" book and said Sauron came before Morgoth... would I be wrong, or a writer?

And If I am David Gaider and alot of the stuff in my books contradicts the world setting... what does that mean?

It means I am a bad writer... sorry.


EDIT: spelling...

Modifié par Stoomkal, 06 avril 2010 - 07:19 .

[Zaros]

David Gaider wrote...

Icematt12 wrote...
As a newbie to Dragon Age it was alreadt established to me that Darkspawn feasted on the dead at Ostigar by Morrigan speaking to you just after lighting the beacon. They dragged the living underground and eat the dead, she said she saw this herself and not learnt through conversation. At this point, no other interpretation is possible.

Now I hear that some book states that Darkspwan never eat, Sounds like a definate contrast, unless Morrigan is mistaken and the Darkspawn happened to do something else.

Sigh.

First off, I said that darkspawn don't need to eat. They don't need food in order to survive. If they bite or feast upon something, it is for other reasons -- which most people may not entirely be aware of.

But... whatever. If someone wants to sniff at it and suggest the books are fanfic, go right ahead. Knock yourselves out.

Well... sounds like someone woke up next to 2 nugs this morning...

[Minaleth]

Imo you can't put books and games into one sack and call the books fanfic if they do not exactly correspond the game. Those are different media and I bet many decisions made for the game are not writer's and are done in favor of gameplay.
Even if we would be speaking only about books and they contradict it's own lore it doesn't mean e.g. a sequel is fanfic for the original. You can think it sux if you don't like the continuity or errors in world design, but you can never put it in fanfic category simply because it is not one. If you are trying to say that the books are not readable, just say it. It's valid subjective opinion, you can list the issues and discuss the contradictions, you can say it's bad writing and quote some pearls, whatever, just please don't call it fanfiction
Bad writing != fanfiction.

Modifié par Minaleth, 06 avril 2010 - 07:44 .

[Stoomkal]

Okay... lets try this again.

Lets use Japanese Literature as an example.

I love Manga and Anime, but there are often issues about "canon".

In Japan, many series are given rights by the corporations that own them to be "expanded" by many and various writers...

None of these are ever regarded as "official" - as in, one persons work does not reflect on the other, even if it is the same characters, world, and story.

A good example is the "Ghost in the Shell" Manga, Anime, and Movies. Each of these has the same world, characters and devices.

And each of those things has *nothing* to do with the other. The characters should not be related to who they are in someone elses project.

The only example we have of this in the West would be Star Wars - a million writers all running over the same material and contradicting the heck out of each other.

But it is all supposed to be fluid in Star Wars.

Now... David Gaider's books seem to be working on the same principle. They are different - not by his own choices, but because he kept making errors.

So... there are two terms for this.
 
One is fan fiction, a degraded form of narrative with no necessity to follow the conventions of a genre or material.

The other is Japanese. They call it "maketing". Who cares... it sold.