AntiChri5 wrote...
Seriously there is no consistency or logic to your posts.
You think destroying the Urn is the good guy option? Really?
Ok. You don't like the game. What exactly is it that we are supposed to say about this? Obviously the lore is not up your alley. I've never heard of a player who didn't find one or other of the NPCs whom they like, but whatever. Why are you here whining about it? Go play some game you actually like.elikal71 wrote...
You guys can say what you want, I still did not like any of the characters nor anything going on in the world. Period. And when I liked every other Bioware game, it is for me to say that in MY PERSONAL VIEW Bioware made something wrong here. When I want followers who constantly whine, attack my decisions and critizise me I can have that for free in RL already, thank you very much.
elikal71 wrote...
zahra wrote...
Short version : You don't like NPCs with personality.
Good to know.
*facepalm*
I guess its my own fault trying to explain something complex in a GAME FORUM...
Considering Morrigan's ritual (which could very well end up with a very-powerful demon baby conquering all of Thedas so if you don't trust Morrigan or think she has any idea what she's getting herself into that's a horrible idea) is one of Flemeth's - who is an ancient abomination - we don't know where it came from and she probably hasn't shared it with anyone else. Avernus' research really seemed to take off with the attempted coup and he's been holed up at Soldier's Peak with only a possessed Sophia Dryden and demons since then so he never got around to sharing. And his research involved torturing fellow GW to death or didn't you notice the body impaled on spikes in his lab or look at his journal? He even admits it. Either way, the GW didn't know about that either.That evil mage in the keep found some and Morrigan knew another, so there is good chance with some more research there may be other ways. They NEVER ever cared for the reasons why there are demons, why those old gods now where evil and what really was behind all of it!
No one asks you to kill the dragon. No one. They call you evil for defiling the ashes, which you don't need to do. You can get through Haven with minimal bloodshed, you know. Just listen to the storekeeper when he tells you to stay out of the back of his store and don't approach the bloody altar in the house and no one attacks you. On the contrary, at the Chantry the priest attacks you and doesn't surrender because you were just there and he feels that anyone from the outside must die or his Village will become known to others, which is, I suppose, a valid fear but not good enough for you to let them kill you. Or if you feel that it is let them kill you and game over. Once you make your way up the mountain you are attacked by people who won't even talk to you and you don't get another opportunity for dialogue until Kolgrim. He says Andraste has risen again and if you reply with the obvious fact 'Andraste is dead' he attacks and you never hear more about why he thinks Andraste is alive or the dragon.but they called ME evil when I dont slay a dragon and his followers (in the Andraste cave) JUST BECAUSE HE IS THERE.
...You can't expect NPCs to get that.YES WE MUST ITS FOR THE FRIGGING XP!
The epilogue says that as long as the Dalish help out at Denerim they get their own land. Lanaya keeps the peace alive but Zathrian causes conflict. Of course he does, he's very set in his human-hating ways and won't make an effort with his human neighbors.At least my ppl got their home in the end, IF humans stick to that, that is. Which, as I know humans, they prolly WONT anyway.
Again, we DON'T know that the Old Gods are evil, just tainted by darkspawn into becoming Archdemon. The Wardens job isn't to 'understand' the darkspawn but if you ask for the Wardens sacrifice not to be forgotten (which is a better boon than the worthless 'give my people land' one because that happens anyway regardless of origin) then more research is done into darkspawn. No one knows where darkspawn come from, only that they stand a good chance of tainting people with their presence and either killing them or turning them into ghouls. Conventional wisdom - that is to say the Chantry's version of events - is that the first darkspawn were Tevinter mages who entered the Golden City and their very presence tainted it and made it to Black City. How are the GW supposed to heal that? Only mages can enter the Fade (where the city is located) under normal circumstances and if the first mages tainted it accidentally why would the GW mages fare any differently?Well I dont buy this "they just are evil" crap. The Wardens didnt waste a minute on the idea that something happened that turned those Dragons evil, something that created the Blight, and work on healing THAT.
That doesn't matter. You're the GW Eamon appoints to act on his behalf at th Landsmeet. Whoever loses the Landsmeet will not abide by the decision and a brawl will break out unless you're the winner and suggest a duel instead. Even if you brawl, eventually a duel is proposed and the banns agree to abide by the outcome of the duel. If you have a non-Alistair companion duel him then they defer to you as to his fate but Alistair outright kills him. You can either accept his surrender or decide he's too dangerous. Loghain is too powerful and dangerous to be allowed to just walk away, hence Riordan's solution.WHY does everyone ask me what should happen to Loghain? WHY? I am not judge or jury, I am even a foreigner, being a Dalish.
Have you ever surrendered to Ser Cauthrien at Howe's estate or lost that fight? You wake up stripped and imprisoned at Fort Drakon. The cutscene shows evidence of torture and plenty of dead bodies. There's one that even looks like Ser Gilmore from the HN Origin and since the only differences between Origins is if Duncan is there to save you, it very well could be. You want due process? There is none and THAT is feudal justice.I dont kill in cold blood, I dont kill those who yield, and most important, if I catch a criminal I want a lawful court to decide his fate, not me playing judge, jury and executor in one! But there was no option to catch him and hand him to the authorities, so what?
Just when I thought there wasn't any more reasons to love Teagan...I think had Teagan had more a hand in his upbringing things would have been much different. Its rather telling that among all the Guerrin's it is ONLY Teagan who seems genuinely happy to see Alistair alive and well in Redcliffe.
I can see how giving the Chantry more political power could be a bad idea, but there are other ways that don't involve defiling a grave. If you send Genitivi back to Denerim and don't visit him, he doesn't learn that he was right about the Urn and doesn't tell people. If you don't kill the dragon then pilgrims come but cannot access the Urn due to the dragon's interference and eventually it just takes the Urn and disappears, so the Chantry doubts it was actually found. You could kill Genitivi to keep the secret, but killing defenseless, helpul, well-meaning, and unarmed old men by throwing a dagger at them when their back is turned doesn't fall under any definition of 'good' that I'm familiar with.You think destroying the Urn is the good guy option? Really?
You could kill Genitivi to keep the secret, but killing defenseless, helpul, well-meaning, and unarmed old men by throwing a dagger at them when their back is turned doesn't fall under any definition of 'good' that I'm familiar with.
**** I wanted to keepthe thing a sevret and felt forced to kill the guy, **** I need to go waaay back, or start again if I dont have the save.Sarah1281 wrote...
Considering Morrigan's ritual (which could very well end up with a very-powerful demon baby conquering all of Thedas so if you don't trust Morrigan or think she has any idea what she's getting herself into that's a horrible idea) is one of Flemeth's - who is an ancient abomination - we don't know where it came from and she probably hasn't shared it with anyone else. Avernus' research really seemed to take off with the attempted coup and he's been holed up at Soldier's Peak with only a possessed Sophia Dryden and demons since then so he never got around to sharing. And his research involved torturing fellow GW to death or didn't you notice the body impaled on spikes in his lab or look at his journal? He even admits it. Either way, the GW didn't know about that either.That evil mage in the keep found some and Morrigan knew another, so there is good chance with some more research there may be other ways. They NEVER ever cared for the reasons why there are demons, why those old gods now where evil and what really was behind all of it!
'Why are there demons'? Probably for the same reason there are elves, dwarves, humans, ect. Unless a species is artificial like golems or werewolves, theren's no point asking where they came from. No one (except maybe the Chantry who says they were the enemies of the Maker) says the Old Gods were evil. When they are sleeping they aren't a problem but when they are awake and tainted by darkspawn...well, there's your answer right there. They were tainted by darkspawn.No one asks you to kill the dragon. No one. They call you evil for defiling the ashes, which you don't need to do. You can get through Haven with minimal bloodshed, you know. Just listen to the storekeeper when he tells you to stay out of the back of his store and don't approach the bloody altar in the house and no one attacks you. On the contrary, at the Chantry the priest attacks you and doesn't surrender because you were just there and he feels that anyone from the outside must die or his Village will become known to others, which is, I suppose, a valid fear but not good enough for you to let them kill you. Or if you feel that it is let them kill you and game over. Once you make your way up the mountain you are attacked by people who won't even talk to you and you don't get another opportunity for dialogue until Kolgrim. He says Andraste has risen again and if you reply with the obvious fact 'Andraste is dead' he attacks and you never hear more about why he thinks Andraste is alive or the dragon.but they called ME evil when I dont slay a dragon and his followers (in the Andraste cave) JUST BECAUSE HE IS THERE.
If you don't ring the gong or blow the horn then the dragon won't be summoned and you can't kill it but it will still let you pass so you DON'T have to kill it for just being there. I kill it because as long as Haven thinks they are protecting the reborn Andraste they will never be a normal town and will contine torturing and killing innocent people who happen upon it....You can't expect NPCs to get that.YES WE MUST ITS FOR THE FRIGGING XP!
The epilogue says that as long as the Dalish help out at Denerim they get their own land. Lanaya keeps the peace alive but Zathrian causes conflict. Of course he does, he's very set in his human-hating ways and won't make an effort with his human neighbors.At least my ppl got their home in the end, IF humans stick to that, that is. Which, as I know humans, they prolly WONT anyway.
Again, we DON'T know that the Old Gods are evil, just tainted by darkspawn into becoming Archdemon. The Wardens job isn't to 'understand' the darkspawn but if you ask for the Wardens sacrifice not to be forgotten (which is a better boon than the worthless 'give my people land' one because that happens anyway regardless of origin) then more research is done into darkspawn. No one knows where darkspawn come from, only that they stand a good chance of tainting people with their presence and either killing them or turning them into ghouls. Conventional wisdom - that is to say the Chantry's version of events - is that the first darkspawn were Tevinter mages who entered the Golden City and their very presence tainted it and made it to Black City. How are the GW supposed to heal that? Only mages can enter the Fade (where the city is located) under normal circumstances and if the first mages tainted it accidentally why would the GW mages fare any differently?Well I dont buy this "they just are evil" crap. The Wardens didnt waste a minute on the idea that something happened that turned those Dragons evil, something that created the Blight, and work on healing THAT.
That doesn't matter. You're the GW Eamon appoints to act on his behalf at th Landsmeet. Whoever loses the Landsmeet will not abide by the decision and a brawl will break out unless you're the winner and suggest a duel instead. Even if you brawl, eventually a duel is proposed and the banns agree to abide by the outcome of the duel. If you have a non-Alistair companion duel him then they defer to you as to his fate but Alistair outright kills him. You can either accept his surrender or decide he's too dangerous. Loghain is too powerful and dangerous to be allowed to just walk away, hence Riordan's solution.WHY does everyone ask me what should happen to Loghain? WHY? I am not judge or jury, I am even a foreigner, being a Dalish.
Have you ever surrendered to Ser Cauthrien at Howe's estate or lost that fight? You wake up stripped and imprisoned at Fort Drakon. The cutscene shows evidence of torture and plenty of dead bodies. There's one that even looks like Ser Gilmore from the HN Origin and since the only differences between Origins is if Duncan is there to save you, it very well could be. You want due process? There is none and THAT is feudal justice.I dont kill in cold blood, I dont kill those who yield, and most important, if I catch a criminal I want a lawful court to decide his fate, not me playing judge, jury and executor in one! But there was no option to catch him and hand him to the authorities, so what?
Just when I thought there wasn't any more reasons to love Teagan...I think had Teagan had more a hand in his upbringing things would have been much different. Its rather telling that among all the Guerrin's it is ONLY Teagan who seems genuinely happy to see Alistair alive and well in Redcliffe.
I can see how giving the Chantry more political power could be a bad idea, but there are other ways that don't involve defiling a grave. If you send Genitivi back to Denerim and don't visit him, he doesn't learn that he was right about the Urn and doesn't tell people. If you don't kill the dragon then pilgrims come but cannot access the Urn due to the dragon's interference and eventually it just takes the Urn and disappears, so the Chantry doubts it was actually found. You could kill Genitivi to keep the secret, but killing defenseless, helpul, well-meaning, and unarmed old men by throwing a dagger at them when their back is turned doesn't fall under any definition of 'good' that I'm familiar with.You think destroying the Urn is the good guy option? Really?
AntiChri5 wrote...
Seriously there is no consistency or logic to your posts.
You think destroying the Urn is the good guy option? Really?
Modifié par Jawson, 04 avril 2010 - 12:18 .
zahra wrote...
We can happily disagree (unlike your ideal NPCs I will not succumb to your way of thinking easily lol)
Sarah1281 wrote...
To be fair, there is a lot of evidence that the Maker isn't as benevolent as the Chantry would make it seem, even in their own lore. The Maker didn't like his creations so what did he do? Completely ignored them. Andraste convinced him to give them a second chance but was killed so what does he do? Turned his back on them again. The darkspawn are apparently the Maker's punishment for daring to go to a certain city. There's not many crimes I'd think the darkspawn are an appropriate punishment for.
The Chantry have a vested interest in people believing in the Maker and in wanting the Maker to come back (which requires spreading the Chant and increasing the power of the Chantry). Chantry lore says that the darkspawn was the Maker's way of punishing mankind. The Chantry says the Maker abandoned his people. The Chantry says he gave them a second chance at Andraste's behest but abandoned them again when she died and won't come back until the Chant is sung from all four corners of the globe. I don't see how stating facts like 'this is what the Chantry says' is having a jaded view of the game lore.that is a jaded harsh view of the lore, not that I'm defending stuff some dev's came up with for a game, but still.
Guest_Hanz54321_*
Alocormin wrote...
So the game world is not for you. Thanks for telling us. Maybe we would take it for granted otherwise...
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