26 réponses à ce sujet

[Talian Kross]

I've given up on Morrigan.  Every blessed line of dialogue is rigged so that if I say anything nice or helpful to someone, she spits out some nasty comment, and I lose influence with her. ("You want to help defend these helpless people? How pathetic!" / "You actually showed integrity and honor and gave back that family heirloom? You idiot!" [paraphrasing both lines, of course])  So now I've kicked her out of my party and am bit depressed about it given that I'll now miss all the witty dialogue between her and Alastair, but having a sidekick constantly belittle me and actions is annoying.

So moving on, I haven't met her in-game yet, but I understand my only other romance option (for my heterosexual male) is Lelina, but she's a rogue.  Rogues, by definition, are chaotic creatures, so again I fully expect to be constantly belittled for being a "good guy."  Is that going to be the case?

So if you play a heterosexual male, is the only way to explore the romance aspects of this game is to be non-caring, petty, and self-centered?  Say it isn't so.

And in general, in context of companion relationships, this whole game seems geared toward evil or chaotic players.  For a game that advertises that there is no good vs. evil slider, why is it that every good action I do makes my party go ballistic (lose influence) and every evil action makes them happy (gain influence)?  I exaggerate a bit, sure, but there is no denying that this game definitely frowns upon being good and doing the "right" thing ("right" as in moral or ethical).

Modifié par Talian Kross, 08 novembre 2009 - 07:19 .

[Lightbringer500]

Or you can give her tons of gifts and not worry about what you do

[Trelow-LMG]

Lel is great. Mostly chaotic neutral past, mostly neutral good now, imho.

[thearidzoner]

I'd say chaotic good. she is trying to do right, but not necessarily following anyone's set of rules and regs. I mean she still *does* pick locks and such

[Talian Kross]

Lightbringer500 wrote...

Or you can give her tons of gifts and not worry about what you do

Sure, if I play strictly OoC (out of character) and disregard the fact my character wouldn't be associating with most of these people much less romancing them.

That's the core of my gripe.  The game was supposedly was designed so there are no easy choices, no good vs. evil, etc., but my experience so far (40% through) is that evil is always rewarded and good is always frowned upon.  (Speaking in terms of companion relationships which seems to be the sole source of roleplay for this RPG given all the NPCs are pretty much ambivalent regardless of what I do.)

[dklancer02]

You must be playing with the wrong party then, Alistar, Lelania, and Wynne are all very much on the do-gooder side of things while Morrigan and Sten tend to be more.....practical.



Just try defiling an ancient holy relic just for power with Alistar, Lelania or Wynne in the party, I dare you.

[Mikka-chan]

But.... that's not really true, I don't think. I mean, just looking at the starting party: have you tried doing something evil and peered at Alistair's response? Giving a somewhat straight but not too spoily example, around four hours in to the game (bit less on repeated playthroughs, of course), you're given an option to threaten a priestess. While Morrigan will giggle over that, Alistair will be completely outraged. I don't think the game really encourages you to be evil or good: one annoys one of the 'main' companions, the other option annoys the other. The only thing they have in common is that you can lose influence with both if you make a fairly stupid (looking strictly in character) decision, I've found.



I'm not trying to dismiss your gripe, but I've been playing with Alistair, Morrigan, and the dwarf and being basically good: Morrigan throws mini-tantrums, but some persuasion and shiny baubles keeps her in the 'warm' region. And I've found that in general, for good acts, I end up quite rewarded.

[AdamTaylor]

Practical?

In no way is Morrigan "practical".



Helping person X will help the group as a whole, give us a better chance of surviving, get us better gear, etc...

But she complains about it because we're helping someone.



Meanwhile you can stab some innocent shmuck in the back, and ruin your chances of success... and she praises you for having your priorities straight.



Simply put... Morrigan makes no sense. Someone who's evil, would still be thinking about themselves. And making sure of their own survival. But doing things which will insure your success, seem to count as bad with her.

Meanwhile shooting yourself in the foot, she's happy about.



So she's not evil, just masochistic. She WANTS to fail and lose and die horribly. Obviously.

[Blessed Silence]

If you want a hoot with Alistair and Morrigan in your party, threaten the Revered Mother for the key to Sten's cage .. hehe .. neat.

[Berym_temp]

My second play through my character will be somewhat less good I've basically gone for Lawful Good this time, and I'm thinking Lawful Evil the next - that is, constructively evil, not the Chaotic Evil that is Morrigan.

[Azeo]

I had morrigan with me basically all the time on a "good guy run". No problem keeping her in the high 90's constantly, in fact even keeping her at 100 is do-able because there are enough gifts that she likes scattered around you can just give her one when she gets pissed off. Keeping some of the other characters near 100 on a bad guy run sounds much more difficult to me. If you are really frustrated you can also swap her out before some of those encounters and back in afterwards.

[Talian Kross]

Azeo wrote...

I had morrigan with me basically all the time on a "good guy run". No problem keeping her in the high 90's constantly,...

Then I contend that you are not really playing a "good guy," just a "neutral guy," because every NPC conversation I have had that involves making a decision results in a negative 3 - 6 point influence loss with her; and a no point am I able to gain influence with her other than by bribing her with cheesy gifts.

And for the record, frustrated isn't really the word I would use, just disappointed.

Modifié par Talian Kross, 08 novembre 2009 - 09:09 .

[Korva]

Talian Kross wrote...

Sure, if I play strictly OoC (out of character) and disregard the fact my character wouldn't be associating with most of these people much less romancing them.

That is often the problems yes. At least you don't HAVE to keep everyone in this game, unlike in KotOR and JE. Much as I loved those games, I hated that.

Alistair, Leliana, Wynne and of course Dog who always loves you are great choices for us folks who prefer "proper heroes" instead of thuggish me-first types who are too stupid to see that they could benefit from helping others sometimes.

And seriously, how utterly dumb are some of the "evil" options? Threaten a Chantry-priestess right outside a Chantry building? Right. The problem is that most games let you get away with nonsense like that without any logical negative consequences.

Modifié par Korva, 08 novembre 2009 - 09:26 .

[Arckaiyn]

This is my first run, I'm still playing a good guy and choose the hard way to do things. (Except for destroying some non-important person's ashes, which people thought was bad.)

[Mikka-chan]

Don't forget that persuasion, either. It seems to pop up paticularly with Morrigan and Alistair: when it comes to major plot decisions that they disapprove of, often there's an option to sort of tell them why you're doing it (and convince them that it's not a bad idea). This seems to reduce minus 10's to minus 5's, and minus 3's to minus 1's... if I'm not losing my mind, which, I admit, is always possible.

[Randir Nuithannen]

Talian Kross wrote...

Azeo wrote...

I had morrigan with me basically all the time on a "good guy run". No problem keeping her in the high 90's constantly,...

Then I contend that you are not really playing a "good guy," just a "neutral guy," because every NPC conversation I have had that involves making a decision results in a negative 3 - 6 point influence loss with her; and a no point am I able to gain influence with her other than by bribing her with cheesy gifts.

And for the record, frustrated isn't really the word I would use, just disappointed.

Oh-ho-ho

So now you're going to tell me what good and evil is?

Good and evil is relative.

My character is a "good character" however he prefers to have his party like him, and frankly takes pity on Morrigan.

To my character Morrigan isn't "evil" as much as just she was raised completely differently and raised to only take care of herself and that any help is a sign of weakness.

So before you go telling everyone else what good and evil is -- you better learn to understand what "relativity" means.

[Lukertin]

After you give Morrigan a mirror you have the option of making her be 'nicer'. Problem solved.

[PMorgan18]

I can get Morrigan at 90s range with my good but ruthless character. Any character that that talks to me and has any evil speaking are purged.

[Talian Kross]

Randir Nuithannen wrote...

So before you go telling everyone else what good and evil is -- you better learn to understand what "relativity" means.

As this is my gripe as it pertains to my perspective, how is your definition of good really relevant here?  That's not a flame or meant to be confrontational.  Think about it.  Unless you somehow possess my body and take over my mind and erase my upbringing, experiences, and outlook on life, your standards for what is considered good and what is not in no way helps my plight.

Of course, with that in mind, this is actually a pointless thread, and I should not have created it.  I apologize for wasting forum space and everyone's time.

Modifié par Talian Kross, 08 novembre 2009 - 10:14 .

[Endurium]

I agree with the OP about Morrigan; I was less than half-way through Lothering when I decided she was worse than Viconia in complaining about everything. She especially loves to pick on the mabari hound companion. Once I met Leliana I was in love, so to speak, but of course Morrigan had a negative comment for that, too. Oops too many people in my group, so Morrigan got the boot, permanently. Also freed Sten for quest XP but left him in camp too.



Haven't met Shale yet, but so far I'm settled on Alistair, Leliana, Wynne, and 'dog' for regular companionship, based on which class/quest I'm playing.



Even if I decide to play an evil character later on, I will probably play a mage and leave Morrigan at camp; she's just that annoying. Or I'll go get Wynne and help her kill Mo.

[Teemu733]

Leliana is a good girl. Morrigan is the bad girl, Leliana the good one. Zevran is the bottom.

[MadHatt3r]

I highly recommend Leliana.  In my experience so far, she has been the most enjoyable NPC to listen to.

I dont mind Morrigan.  Once you get to speak to her a bit about her "Wild" life - you begin to understand her perspective a little more.  Morrigan is not a staple in my party however.  Keep in mind also that Morrigan doesnt *want* to be in the party.  She was "directed" to accompany you by Flemeth.

My party generally consists of Shale, my Mabari, and Wynne.  With this party I generally have no issues with any dialogue choices I make.

[Wissenschaft]

There are no aligments, this is not D&D.

As long as you take with Morrigan it does matter how many goodie goodie things you do. Shes begging for your company even if she plays hard to get. In fact, she doesn't play hard to get for long. Shes the fast to improve in approval as long as you talk to her and give her gifts.


Note: Morrigan evenually warms up to dog. Its rather funny but she develops a soft spot for the mutt, not that she'll admit it.

Leliana is girly, wait till you hear her talk about shoes. How this girl LOVES shoes. No matter. She might be a rogue but shes reformed now. Mostly. Shes a good girl so if you like playing the palidin than she'll be happy.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 08 novembre 2009 - 10:45 .

[EvilDonkey]

Funny, she was one of the few I didnt have problems with.

Those that did ****, didnt leave, they die one by one at my sword.