90 réponses à ce sujet

[Xandurpein]

Master Shiori wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

I am of the opinion that the God baby is really off-limits for a future sequel, since it runs a high risk of making a mockery of very emotionally charged choices made by some people. I used the example of someone playing a female character deeply in love with Alistair but still refuse to do the Dark Ritual. Making the Dark Ritual canon would be totally inappropriate for them.

 

Let's be honest here.

As long as Bioware tries to continue the Wardens story in some way they'll make a mockery of people's choices, since it's impossible to continue that story in a way that makes everyone's choice matter.

You can roughly divide the fans into 3 groups:

1) those who choose ultimate sacrifice for their character
2) those who refused to do the dark ritual but didn't sacrifice their character
3) those who did the ritual with either their own PC or Alistair/Loghain

I can easily see why Bioware might choose to follow option 3, since it alone provides the best story telling oportunities and makes the greatest impact on the gameworld.

They cannot make everyones choice matter, which is exactly why I think that they should opt for making some choices irrelevant to the main story. Choosing the option where Morrigan was simply never heard from again and remains an unknown mystery is the best option as it means no ones story needs to be revised.

[Master Shiori]

It would ceirtainly be the best option had there been no strings attached. Here however, you have a potentialy world changing consequence in the form of a god child.



The difference between non pregnant and pregnant Morrigan disappearing is huge. In first case you can easily forget about the character, while in the second you can't. The impact on the story is simply too big to ignore.

[CybAnt1]

I've said this before but it seems logical to wrap up the Architect and Morrigan storylines in a 2nd expansion (hopefully with some actual QA!), and that could be "curtains" for Our Warden Hero 1.0. BTW, I believe that it will become canon that Morrigan has her god-baby, if not yours, then Alistair/Loghains/some other GWs.



DA 2 probably should start a new char and a new story arc. I'm really, really hoping it's not YANO new improved Warden 2.0 facing YANO Blight (even if they come up with an entirely new & novel way of dealing with it). It would be cool if they introduce some new protagonists, adversaries, and plot drivers.



I also wonder if we ever will leave Thedas (the continent) to see the rest of Thedas (the world) which must have other continents ... maybe one with an Asian/Oriental archetype culture on it so we can start introducing those elements into the milieux ... yes I know some would dislike it, but I wouldn't, I think fantasy worlds can work quite well multiculturally.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Well i hope a blight in orlais but if we added everything togther that was said here we'd have a hell of a game!

[Xandurpein]

Master Shiori wrote...

It would ceirtainly be the best option had there been no strings attached. Here however, you have a potentialy world changing consequence in the form of a god child.

The difference between non pregnant and pregnant Morrigan disappearing is huge. In first case you can easily forget about the character, while in the second you can't. The impact on the story is simply too big to ignore.

Only if you adhere to the conviction that Morrigan must be 'explained'. Why can't she be a mystery? Who is to say an Old God child must be a world changing event on a level that impacted on Fereldan? Maybe the God child will return a hundred years later as a legend, like Andraste, and we will never know for sure if the legend is the truth or not.

And just because you did do the ritual doesn't automatically mean that Morrigan's ritual worked. Maybe it failed and killed the Old god's soul anyway. Whether you opt for a story where Morrigan is indeed pregnant with the Old god soul or not you need to find a way to fit those who choose differently about the Dark Ritual into it, unless you simply let Morrigan remain a mystery. If you do explain what happened, then it's a lot easier to remove the God child from the equation and still be respectful to those who choose to do the Dark ritual, than it would be to include the god child and still be respectful to those who choose to NOT do the Dark Ritual.

[Xandurpein]

CybAnt1 wrote...

I've said this before but it seems logical to wrap up the Architect and Morrigan storylines in a 2nd expansion (hopefully with some actual QA!), and that could be "curtains" for Our Warden Hero 1.0. BTW, I believe that it will become canon that Morrigan has her god-baby, if not yours, then Alistair/Loghains/some other GWs.

The god baby can't be explained in for those he refused the Dark Ritual. The Grey Wardens kill the Archdemon by letting one of their number accept the tainted Old god soul into his/her mind so they are both destroyed. If you did not do the Dark Ritual a Grey Warden (either Alistair, Loghain or the player) was killed annihilating the Archdemon/Old God soul, or else no one died.

I am not sure what kind of closure you want for the Architect either. In my story he is dead and gone. That is all the closure I need really, unless you mean the option to hunt down and kill every sapient Darkspawn left or something, which seems a bit lame if the baddest boss is already gone.

[Master Shiori]

Xandurpein wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

It would ceirtainly be the best option had there been no strings attached. Here however, you have a potentialy world changing consequence in the form of a god child.

The difference between non pregnant and pregnant Morrigan disappearing is huge. In first case you can easily forget about the character, while in the second you can't. The impact on the story is simply too big to ignore.

Only if you adhere to the conviction that Morrigan must be 'explained'. Why can't she be a mystery? Who is to say an Old God child must be a world changing event on a level that impacted on Fereldan? Maybe the God child will return a hundred years later as a legend, like Andraste, and we will never know for sure if the legend is the truth or not.

And just because you did do the ritual doesn't automatically mean that Morrigan's ritual worked. Maybe it failed and killed the Old god's soul anyway. Whether you opt for a story where Morrigan is indeed pregnant with the Old god soul or not you need to find a way to fit those who choose differently about the Dark Ritual into it, unless you simply let Morrigan remain a mystery. If you do explain what happened, then it's a lot easier to remove the God child from the equation and still be respectful to those who choose to do the Dark ritual, than it would be to include the god child and still be respectful to those who choose to NOT do the Dark Ritual.

Because I seriously doubt Morrigan and Flemeth would carefully plan the whole Dark Ritual thing, save the lives of 2 Grey Wardens from a horde of Darkspawn, go through all the danger of aiding them only to have the child grow up in complete seclusion without any impact on the world.

And yes, bringing back the Old God is a world changing event for all of Thedas, not just Ferelden. You're basically upsetting the balance of power and creating a counterbalance to the Maker and the Chantry.

Andraste didn't become a legend by living in seclusion. She fought the greatest empire the world has seen, freed the elven slaves and made the rise of Maker's faith possible. Had she simply stayed a quiet wife of a tribal chief nobody would even know about her today.

As for whether the ritual worked or not, everything happened as Morrigan said it would. Until someone from Bioware says otherwise we have no reason to suspect that something went wrong.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 12 avril 2010 - 04:04 .

[Chuvvy]

Destroying the reapers.

[CybAnt1]

The god baby can't be explained in for those he refused the Dark Ritual. 

Unless they make it canon that everyone did it. 

BTW, unless the next expansion features a required alternative protagonist, as opposed to an optional alternative protagonist, for Warden 1.0, I suppose it has to become canon. But seeing as the Warden can be alive in Awakening even if he did UltSac, I suppose it already has become canon. 

Then the question becomes whether they make it canon that it's the PC's child vs. Alistair's or Loghain's. It certainly heightens the emotional stakes to do so - whether they romanced Morrigan or not. That's why I suspect they will.

Oh sure, there will be howling about choices not being respected again, but looking at it logically, this seems to be the decision they will take. 

I am not sure what kind of closure you want for the Architect either. In my story he is dead and gone. That is all the closure I need really, unless you mean the option to hunt down and kill every sapient Darkspawn left or something, which seems a bit lame if the baddest boss is already gone.

Regardless of the end plot state variable (Architect dead/Architect alive), two things are also true. Player still does not know the full details of the Architect's plan (let alone why there seems to be an inconsistency between the plan of the novel and the plan of the game), and Architect has a disciple (Seeker) intent on continuing his work. 

We will see more sentient darkspawn in the future - I just happen to be someone who thinks that may not necessarily be a good thing. 

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

I would like to see like alot of war. Thedas seems to be politically potent.



Like all of thedas in termoil a new blights happening



The mages are revolting breaking off from chantry rule and going to war with templars.



The qunari are invading ferelden.



A new blight is closing in on Orlais Captial



Dragons are starting to poor back in to thedas from everywhere



So much death that the veil is torn through out thedas,



Darkspawn are attempting a push through Orzammar



the land is infected with taint ghouls that attack travelers on the road and fourm bands just like darkspawn do.



Pleague carries out through thedas infecting thousands of peoplem killing many.



Teventer imperium starts to regain power.



God that would be a epic game. You could do it on pc and ps3 but im not sure it'd fit on xbox.

[Suron]

I want it to actually HAVE a focus..instead of giving us this big bad evil threat to the world that is then hardly seen or heard of till after you play matchmaker and politician....and then you go.."oh yah..Arch-Demon 'SIGH' guess we should go kill it now"

[Xandurpein]

CybAnt1 wrote...

The god baby can't be explained in for those he refused the Dark Ritual. 

Unless they make it canon that everyone did it. 

BTW, unless the next expansion features a required alternative protagonist, as opposed to an optional alternative protagonist, for Warden 1.0, I suppose it has to become canon. But seeing as the Warden can be alive in Awakening even if he did UltSac, I suppose it already has become canon. 

Then the question becomes whether they make it canon that it's the PC's child vs. Alistair's or Loghain's. It certainly heightens the emotional stakes to do so - whether they romanced Morrigan or not. That's why I suspect they will.

Oh sure, there will be howling about choices not being respected again, but looking at it logically, this seems to be the decision they will take. 

While it is possible that they do, after all neither you nor I have any real decision power, only Bioware, I stand by my opinion that I very much hope that they do NOT force a canon, for the reasons I have already mentioned. The fact that you can bring your character into Awakening even if you did Ulitmate Sacrifice proves nothing. It is not canon that you can do it, you are merely allowed to conciously create a plot hole and ignore realites if you like.

I do not think it is what they would logically do. There is really no logic at all to it, merely opinions. They don't need the God Child for anything really, I am convinced that they can invent enough plots and stories in Thedas without it. The final decision no doubt wil be influenced by things like what sells best, but so far they have gone to some length not to force any canon in Awakening, nor in ME2 for that matter, and I sincerely hope that they don't in the future.

CybAnt1 wrote...

We will see more sentient darkspawn in the future - I just happen to be someone who thinks that may not necessarily be a good thing. 

I am convinced it's on the whole a very bad idea, at least until Darkspawn can invent a way of reproduction that does not involve violating women and turning them forcefully into monsters.

[Mirthadrond]

Obvious bits for DA2:

A new blight - likely taking place in another land.



A new PC character, as the game is just too easy after awakening, and they are likely going to be able to improve the AI enough to make it challenging for such a powerful character.



New origins - as this was one of the major 'hooks' that made DAO so good.



The dark ritual and morrigan will not make an appearance, as this would upset a lot of fans who choose a more noble sacrifice.



A mage revolt seems likely, since both DA:O and DA:A touch upon this issue. Help or hinder.



The alternative is to establish canon; and ignore some previous player choices. If they do this, they should be ready for a ****storm of complaints, however if they set expectations properly they can avoid some of this fallout, but not all of it.

Personally - even though some of my characters did the DR, they should avoid bringing back the godbaby. Easy enough to create a dilema for male characters, but not for female characters.

I say avoid it.

[Master Shiori]

Mirthadrond wrote...


The dark ritual and morrigan will not make an appearance, as this would upset a lot of fans who choose a more noble sacrifice.

A mage revolt seems likely, since both DA:O and DA:A touch upon this issue. Help or hinder.

The alternative is to establish canon; and ignore some previous player choices. If they do this, they should be ready for a ****storm of complaints, however if they set expectations properly they can avoid some of this fallout, but not all of it.
Personally - even though some of my characters did the DR, they should avoid bringing back the godbaby. Easy enough to create a dilema for male characters, but not for female characters.
I say avoid it.

Just out of curiousity; what makes you think ignoring the dark ritual and Morrigan WON'T bring a ****storm of complains?

[Terra_Ex]

Ideally, a direct continuation with my current Warden. The Morrigan/Flemeth plot thread should naturally be continued. The more popular characters should reappear, mixed in with some new faces. I've no great preference as to where its set, Orlais seems the likely place going by Arl Foreshadow's codex entry. Further development of the Fade would be great - its a fantastic concept but needs refining to implement it as a non-tedious gameplay element.

I don't see the Warden's endgame strength as a problem, the devs (should) now know  what they're doing and be able to refine the gameplay to deliver a superior sequel on all fronts. I've no problem in my PC getting nerfed for gameplay terms.

[Bratt1204]

Continuation of Alistair and Morrigan.

Want to know about/would like to see in a future game:

1. Alistair/possibility of an heir/his true mother

2. Avernus' research with the Taint

3. Flemeth

4. Morrigan - baby/no baby

Would like to see more continuity from Origins -not- Awakening.

Modifié par Bratt1204, 13 avril 2010 - 07:13 .

[Xandurpein]

Master Shiori wrote...

Mirthadrond wrote...


The dark ritual and morrigan will not make an appearance, as this would upset a lot of fans who choose a more noble sacrifice.

A mage revolt seems likely, since both DA:O and DA:A touch upon this issue. Help or hinder.

The alternative is to establish canon; and ignore some previous player choices. If they do this, they should be ready for a ****storm of complaints, however if they set expectations properly they can avoid some of this fallout, but not all of it.
Personally - even though some of my characters did the DR, they should avoid bringing back the godbaby. Easy enough to create a dilema for male characters, but not for female characters.
I say avoid it.

Just out of curiousity; what makes you think ignoring the dark ritual and Morrigan WON'T bring a ****storm of complains?

There will always be complaints, and I agree that making is canon that the God baby isn't born might be just as bad as making the opposite canon, unless they can explain convincingly why it failed (miscarriage, or somethingelse) rather than making either outcome canon. Making any outcome canon is really bad in my opinion.

[Gill Kaiser]

Set the game in Tevinter and have the plot revolve around a danger emerging from the Fade.

[Devil_666]

Master Shiori wrote...

Mirthadrond wrote...


The dark ritual and morrigan will not make an appearance, as this would upset a lot of fans who choose a more noble sacrifice.

A mage revolt seems likely, since both DA:O and DA:A touch upon this issue. Help or hinder.

The alternative is to establish canon; and ignore some previous player choices. If they do this, they should be ready for a ****storm of complaints, however if they set expectations properly they can avoid some of this fallout, but not all of it.
Personally - even though some of my characters did the DR, they should avoid bringing back the godbaby. Easy enough to create a dilema for male characters, but not for female characters.
I say avoid it.

Just out of curiousity; what makes you think ignoring the dark ritual and Morrigan WON'T bring a ****storm of complains?

I totally agree!!! It seems for some people its more interesting to just let the stroy hang...! And i guess we all know what were their main choices irrespective of what they might tell us lol
The ending left so much open plots, and im really eager to see what will happen next.

[CybAnt1]

I really hope that DA 2 doesn't star Warden 2.0 (or continuation of 1.0, still) fighting against Blight 2.0. They've got to be more imaginative than that. I hope they are. I don't care if it's in another land and it requires something entirely new (like having to gather 4 kinds of mage hats instead of 4 armies) ... I really hope the gameworld can introduce new protagonist factions (other than "the Wardens"), new primary adversaries (i.e. in case I haven't pointed this out I'm starting to get very sick of fighting darkspawn most of the time), and a new plot driver (other than "blights").

[Ladybright]

I would aim for:

+A more focused plot
+Setting a different area of Thedas
+A new protagonist, hopefully completely unrelated to the Warden
+Some continuity -- references to things we did in DA:O, even if those events were 100 years in the past relative to DA:O2's timeframe
+No darkspawn, no ultimate inhuman evil threatening the world -- more interesting enemies

I'm not really sure what exactly I would say for the focus of the next game. I'd just want something interesting and smaller-scale. New origins are a must.

Codex lovers, what would be some good openings in the lore for an interesting story? Avoiding the obvious God-baby, of course.

Modifié par Ladybright, 13 avril 2010 - 11:32 .

[Epona222]

I want something new for the next full game. New character, new part of Thedas, new origins, new companions, new raison d'etre.



I'm getting too advanced in years to want to repeat the same stuff over and over!!!

[Thalorin1919]

It's so obvious the god-child will be canon, seeing as it makes for the best story.



Darkspawn hear the 'song' of the Old Gods. The child will have the soul of the Old God, therefore the soul puts out the song. Darkspawn hear the song, darkspawn go to the surface seeing as its easier to find someone on the surface, and viola! You got a "I should NOT of done that" moment.



Basically - next game = GW defending the Old Gold child from darkspawn, or even killing the child itself to kill the Old God, which could mean sacrifice thereself.

[Gill Kaiser]

Please, no more Grey Warden protagonist, and no more Darkspawn as main enemy faction. It's been done.