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Awakenings: Why Backstab? 100% Melee Critical Chance FTW (Video added)


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#1
foyble

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Granted, a Rogue using Shadow Form, with Shadow Striking and Exploit Weakness will gain HUGE bonuses to Backstabs.  But Backstabs only occur when the Rogue is in a Flanking position or the enemy stunned/paralyzed (and the Rogue has the Coup de Grace Talent).  More on Flicker in a bit…   

Since Melee Critical Hits and Backstabs use the same damage calculation (ignoring activated/sustainable Assassin and Shadow Talents) I find that the time it takes to position for a Backstab is wasted when the enemy could already be dead from multiple Critical Hits to the face.  For tougher enemies with a lot of hit points, by all means, Backstab away…if you can! 

What happens when your Rogue is the Tank, or you like to "solo" your Rogue with a buff-bot or two?  Attaining a Flanking position on an enemy becomes almost impossible unless you are attacking from Stealth because every enemy is focused on YOU.  Just forget about trying to micro-manage another Rogue into position for Backstabs, or trying to position yourself/kite until enemies are all between you and your Backstabber.  Too tedious and enemies can still move out of position!  Better to just go for the eyes!

Attacking at maxium attack speed is essential, and auto-attacking is pretty much all you need to do.  Many Activated Talents have lengthy animation times.  This can reduce the amount of time that you are actually hitting your opponent and/or will result in less damage (non-critical hits) than if you are getting Critical Hits instead.  Dirty Fighting and Riposte are still great when it’s wiser to stun a caster, rogue, fleeing archer or potential enemy that
can Grab or Overwhelm.  You can forget about almost everything else except Flicker. 

Flicker is just plain awesome when there are multiple targets.  The more targets in the area of effect the more overall damage Flicker will do.  You can Flicker, but still do insane damage on every normal attack when enemies are coming at you in waves or are too spread out and/or Flicker is on cool-down.  Open with a Flicker using 2h
weapon for maximum damage, then swap weapon sets to dual-wield daggers.  Activate Momentum and a Swift Salve and watch the Critical Hits fly!  Swift Salve lasts 60 seconds, which just happens to be the cool-down for Flicker.  If you’re still fighting after 60 seconds you can swap weapons sets back to the 2H and Flicker.  I seriously doubt anything is still alive after this, but keep in mind that Momentum has a 30 second cool-down and will be unuseable for about 28 seconds after your second Flicker.

100% Critical Chance is obtainable for the Warden (Warrior or Rogue - more in a bit) with 40 Dexterity, about 220 gold, any character with 2 points in Runecrafting and Bard Love in the form of stacking Song of Courage.  SoC adds (3 + 0.1*[Cun – 10]) Attack, (2 + 0.05*[Cun – 10]) Damage and (3 + 0.1*[Cun – 10]) Critical Chance.

Sigrun and Nathaniel, respeced to Bards with at least 90 Cunning, singing SoC will add 11% Critical Chance each.  This % rises by 0.1 for each additional point in Cunning per SoC.   Pre-buffing Cunning yields even greater
bonuses.  It should be noted that there is a stacking bug with SoC (as with multiple other buffs) and care should be taken to stack multiple SoC in the correct order.  It is possible to stack 3 SoC if the player-character is a Rogue.

Dual-wield daggers!  The advent of Intensifying Runes means you can get +30% Critical Chance by using 6 Runes in dual-wielded weapons.  Daggers have the highest critical chance, so it would make sense to dual-wield daggers.  In addition to their base critical chance, some daggers even have a +% Critical Chance modifier, notably Voice of Velvet (+5%), The Rose’s Thorn (+5%) and Talon of the Skies (+10%).  Dual-daggers will also attack faster than other weapon combinations.  It should be noted that each weapon will have its own base Critical Chance, which applies only to that weapon.

The Numbers:
Base character critical chance = 3%
Voice of Velvet = 5% + 5.4% (as Primary Weapon)  Required: 40 Dexterity
Talon of the Skies = 10% + 4.6 (as Secondary Weapon)  Required: 40 Dexterity
Intensifying Rune = 30% (with 6 Runes @ 5% each)

For a total of 53.4/52.8 % Critical Chance for Primary/Secondary weapons.

At level 26 (the earliest they can join your party with an imported level 25 Warden):
Nathaniel can be respeced to a total of 95 Cunning  for 11.5% Critical Chance with SoC
Sigrun can be respeced to a total 94 Cunning for 11.4% Critical Chance with SoC

For a total of 70.9/70.3 % Critical Chance for Primary/Secondary weapons.

These numbers do not take into account equipping +Cunning gear before activating SoC.
For instance, equipping a shield with the bugged Heraldry:Legion of the Dead would give +20 Cunning, resulting in an additional 2% for each SoC.  There are lots of +Cunning or +All Attribute gear that can be used for pre-buffing. 

For Sigrun and Nathaniel:
Pump Cunning every level.
Make sure each has Master Stealth.
You can set them to auto-Stealth then Wait through Tactics to keep them out of danger.
       (Be extra careful after cutscenes that result in battle)
Tactics to auto-SoC won’t work due to the stacking bugand wanting to pre-buff.

If you plan on using Heraldry:Legion of the Dead consider bringing a couple low-Tier shields with you on Import, as Sigrun and Nathaniel probably won’t have enough Strength to equip the higher-Tier shields found in
Awakening, even with Mark of the Legion.

As your Critical Chance goes over 100% (and it will as SoC gets stronger):
Switch out Intensifying Runes for Rune of choice.
Replace Talon of the Skies with The Rose’s Thorn for higher Critical Hits.
Consider dual-wielding 2 full-size weapons for higher Criticals at the expense of Attack Speed.

For Rogues:
Dual Weapon Expert = 2.5%
Lethality = 10%
Shadow Striking = 5%
Assassin Specialization = 2.5%
Song of Courage with at least 70 Cunning = 9%
Song of Courage from Nathaniel @ 95 Cunning = 11.5%
Song of Courage from Sigrun @ 94 Cunning = 11.4%

For a total of 99.9/99.3 % Critical Chance for Primary/Secondary weapons.
Remember pre-buffing Cunning will yield higher results. 

The Build:
70 Dexterity, 70 Cunning
High enough Dexterity (with gear) for a Mostly Unhittable Defense rating of 160-170
Pump Cunning each level for better SoC and increased Damage.
The Slippery Ferret’s Gloves, when obtained, will add 10%.
Consider Legionnaire Scout instead of Assassin for survivability.
    We’re not trying to increase Backstab damage, remember? 

For Warriors:
Dual Weapon Expert = 2.5%
Bravery = 3.5% + an additional 3.5% for each enemy within melee range!
Precise Striking = (2.5 + 0.5*[Character Level])%
      (15.5% @ level 26 gaining 0.5 per level up to 20.0% at level 35)
Song of Courage from Nathaniel @ 95 Cunning = 11.5%
Song of Courage from Sigrun @ 94 Cunning = 11.4%

For a total of 92.4/91.8 % Critical Chance for Primary/Secondary weapons.
Remember pre-buffing Cunning will yield higher results.

100% Critical Chance is quickly reached with multiple enemies and more character levels 

The Build:
70 Dexterity, 70 Strength
High enough Dexterity (with gear) for a Mostly Unhittable Defense rating of 160-170
Pump Strength/Dex each level for increased Damage
Spirit Warrior tree to increase size of Critical Hits even more! Consider pumping Willpower for Fade Burst.

For Mages:
No personal Talents or Spells add to % Critical Chance.

Song of Courage from Nathaniel @ 95 Cunning = 11.5%
Song of Courage from Sigrun @ 94 Cunning = 11.4%

For a total of 70.9/70.3 % Critical Chance for Primary/Secondary
weapons.


On a Mage, 100% Critical Chance for each weapon cannot be achieved unless each of your 2 Bards has a 181 Cunning with equipment.  The max cunning I could see attainable would be 179 at level 34.  There isn’t enough
+Cunning gear to reach 181 on Nathaniel or Sigrun unless I have missed something in my list of +Cunning gear (which follows shortly). 

Tome of Mortal Vessel COULD be used, but each would only add 0.1% Critical Chance, and there are only 2 throughout all of Origins and Awakenings without Console/Mods/Cheats.  Better used on the Warden for better returns.

At 179 Cunning, each SoC will be adding 19.9% for a whopping total of 39.8% Critical Chance. 
The following importable gear adds another 7%:
Cadash Stompers = 2%
Swordsman’s Girdle = 2%
Katriel’s Grasp = 3%

Doing the math, this is 100.4/99.8 % Critical Chance for Primary/Secondary weapons.

Seriously, 99.8% Critical Chance on Secondary weapon is so high you may
never see another normal hit.

The Build:
40 Dexterity, the rest in Magic
High Dexterity (with gear and Spells) for a Mostly Unhittable Defense rating of 160-170
Arcane Warrior full tree to convert Magic to Strength for melee damage.
   - Lets you equip some of the higher-Dex/Defense gear.
   - You don’t even have to activate it, but why not?  You’ll be casting a lot less!
Pump Magic each level for increased Spell AND Melee Damage

With Hand of Winter you can Freeze all those enemies surrounding you and sit back and enjoy the deliciousness of an auto-attack Shatterfest!  My new Favorite Tactic!

+Cunning buff gear:
Partha with Heraldry: Legion of the Dead = 22
The Slippery Ferret’s Gloves = 8
Cap of the Nimble = 6
Dead Thaig Shanker = 5
Vest of the Nimble = 5
Spirit Cord = 3
Worn Golden Ring (Nathaniel Only) = 3
Dusk Ring = 3
Ring of Subtlety = 3
Wolf Treads = 3
Andruil’s Blessing = 2

Conclusion:
100% Critical Chance is super-overpowered, as is a high Defense.  I love them both!
On a recent “solo” Rogue playthrough (with some careful choices on gear to import and a little extra gold) I was able to achieve 100% Critical Chance, 164 Defense, 32 Armor and 67.9/66/9 Damage all before reaching
level 27.  I was speced as a Bard/Shadow/Legionnaire Scout - I just love Strength of Stone.  The only enemies I had killed after leaving Vigil’s Keep Throne Room were the ones in Knotwood Hills on the way to acquire Sigrun.  The only upgrade to my own gear I was planning at that point was The Slippery Ferret’s Gloves and a better 2H for Flicker.  Overpowered indeed.

Sorry this was so long.  I got a bit carried away. 

Video is here.
Questions and comments are welcome.  I hope you have as much fun with this as I did! :happy:

*Edited for formatting and added video

Modifié par foyble, 07 avril 2010 - 05:44 .


#2
AuraofMana

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Well, the thing is, usually you should have a Mage to throw in CC so your Rogues are backstabbing away 100% of the time. In addition, doesn't Backstab end up dealing more damage because of +% Backstab damage mods? However, what you propose is interesting.

#3
foyble

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Remember that those +% Backstab damage mods on runes are also +% Critical damage. 
CC from Mages or even another Bard would certainly increase the amount of actual Backstabs you could do, and thus the total damage. I was approaching this as someone who likes to "solo" with some buffs and reduce micro-managing or "playing" the other characters.

But go ahead and add a mage to your party if that's your thing! 

I wish it were possible to parse the overall damage over multiple fights for 100% Criticals vs. Backstabs with mods, but I have a feeling the Criticals from max attack speed autoattacks will win out over the time you will inevitably spend positioning for non-CC'd enemies. But when mobs are dying in 2 hits either way, its really hard to tell!

Modifié par foyble, 04 avril 2010 - 07:55 .


#4
AuraofMana

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Hmm, this is actually pretty interesting now that I gave more thoughts to it. You should frap and upload some videos. I want to see this :D

#5
AmstradHero

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I thought it was possible for an attack to be both a backstab and a critical hit?

#6
sajahVarel

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AmstradHero wrote...

I thought it was possible for an attack to be both a backstab and a critical hit?


No, they don't stack, if you are flanking with a melee weapon, you backstab, otherwise you crit. By the way the major advantage of the backstab is that you get talents in assassin and shadow to pump the dmg and other stuff, things that a crit hits can't trigger. 

#7
LarsLausen

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You know, there is a mod that adds a Talent called "Traitor" that positions you for the backstab attack, right? I think it is in this one http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=181



That is a pretty awesome talent freeing you from the positioning hassle - otherwise a very interesting read - I remember having > 50% on my origins rogue and always wondered if you could go for 100% - thanks :)

#8
mbeckham

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Sleep+Waking Nightmare can turn enemies on each other making them turn their backs to your Rogue. Also Pandamonium might have the same affect. For Crits it might also be worth noting that Pinpoint Strike give you something like 60 seconds of Autocrits. I'm pretty sure Coup De Gras also auto backstabs frozen opponents as well as stunned, so Hand of Winter and Cone of Cold are your friends.

And no, I just checked on Wikia, Backstabs do critical damage but can never become critical hits or count as such so you can't stacking crit and backstab damage or backstab to crit for the shatter affect on frozen enemies.

Modifié par mbeckham, 06 avril 2010 - 11:03 .


#9
foyble

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Just to restate the obvious - just because you have 100% critical chance doesn't mean that you can't Backstab. All I'm saying is that you won't feel like you have to...and may not want to take the time to position so you can!

mbeckham wrote...

Sleep+Waking Nightmare can turn enemies on each other making them turn their backs to your Rogue. Also Pandamonium might have the same affect. For Crits it might also be worth noting that Pinpoint Strike give you something like 60 seconds of Autocrits. I'm pretty sure Coup De Gras also auto backstabs frozen opponents as well as stunned, so Hand of Winter and Cone of Cold are your friends.


Pandemonium does have the same effect. It also has a 90 second cooldown. Pinpoint Strikes is great, but you have to be a Duelist and the activated talent lasts 15 seconds with a 60 second cooldown. The problem with frozen opponents and Coup de Grace is that a Rogue will ALWAYS backstab them and NEVER Critical Hit...thus NEVER Shatter (which I think everyone can agree is better than a Critical Hit or a Backstab). I'm considering a shatter-playthrough with heavy use of those 2 spells and a 100% Critical Chance Rogue WITHOUT Coup de Grace :)

AuraofMana wrote...

Hmm, this is actually pretty interesting now that I gave more thoughts to it. You should frap and upload some videos. I want to see this :D


I'm a total newb on frap and uploading videos, but I gave it my best shot:

Watch the video here!

I think you'll agree that there's some real power here.

Modifié par foyble, 07 avril 2010 - 05:16 .