112 réponses à ce sujet

[DiatribeEQ]

Let's be honest here folks, while everyone will have their favorites in which we take routinely on missions, (and this will vary quite a bit from player to player), there's some folks in our "Dirty Dozen" that gets parked on the Normandy more often than they're taken out.  In fact, some characters might actually never leave the Normandy once a new character becomes available.

I look at folks such as Miranda & Jacob.  Poor things.  Other than my occassional "Oh, why the heck not?" pity moments, they've not left their respective spots on the ship outside of their loyalty missions once I gained access to new folks.  With my 1st play through, I took Miranda out for most missions, she was my LI that run through, but afterwards, from the 2nd till the 6th, her butt's been parked in her office since then.  Jacob?  He's basically been hanging out in the armory for a rather long time now.

I'm sure we've all got characters like this, I'm not saying we don't play favorites.  But classes that Miranda & Jacob are, generally seem to be routinely "forgotten" by most folks. (I surmise this from reading countless posts players have made on this very forum about their own playstyles and comments supporting my theory about these 2 people).  Heck, my favorites are generally broken down into 2 areas (and this assumes I have access to them from the get-go)

A) Legion + Tali + Engineer Shepard = OMFG GO GO ATTACK DRONES!  FEAR MY GETH-MECH ARMY!

 Zaeed + Garrus (or Grunt for either) + Soldier Shepard = HOLY CRAP!  That's alotta Concussive Blasts'o'Death!


So, with all that said, what can be done (via ME3) to make folks such as Jacob & Miranda more attactive for the player to bring more often?

[MaaZeus]

Miranda and Jacob are almost unused in my game too, and so is Samara for some reason (despite her good biotics powers I tend to prefer Jack). Thane I use here and there, but is definetly not part of my fav lineups.

[Jaryd theBlackDragon]

Nothing.Though I guess the sheer abundance of party members compared to the amount of content in the game makes it a bit hard to balance who you take to missions even if you try.



People always have favourites, this has always been the case and always will be the case; short of just giving no choice in who to bring there's not really much you can do about it. If anything having a ship with people you get to pick from is already an improvement over how it was in games like BG in this respect; where you traditionally picked a party lineup and stuck with it throughout the game. Switching people in and out wasn't really an option as they didn't gain xp while not in your group and thus would be pretty gimped compared to your "regulars" since they'd be several levels behind and would probably never be able to catch up. Not to mention that removing someone from your group often made them entirely unavailable thereafter.

[DiatribeEQ]

But what can they do to make them more desirable in the next game, while not unbalancing things for the other possible team member desirability? Last thing we want is having that 1 or 2 people you HAVE to bring, due to what they bring to every fight. As far as I'm concerned, each of these characters should have just as good of a chance to be brought to any mission as the other, but from what I've seen, these 2 have been relegated to "Ship Duties" in most folks games.

[GodWood]

Miranda is "technically" the best character for combat as she has Overload and Warp (I still never use her)

[DiatribeEQ]

GodWood wrote...

Miranda is "technically" the best character for combat as she has Overload and Warp (I still never use her)

Can use Garrus for Overload.  On top of that, what if the player has Warp?  Between having a more gun combat friendly character such as Garrus + a Shepard with Warp = Zero reason for Miranda.

[GothamLord]

DiatribeEQ wrote...

So, with all that said, what can be done (via ME3) to make folks such as Jacob & Miranda more attactive for the player to bring more often?

Assuming we "import" directly into ME3, we'll be starting at our respective Lvl 30. Raising the level cap to whatever it may be 60+?? We'll need new skills/abilities for not only Shepard but the rest of the crew as well. So a good way for the *combat* side of the game is unique powers that arent as easily interchangeable. As mentioned from what I snipped out. The massive ability to spam attack drones or concussion shots doesnt make the ability special anymore if everyone in the squad can do it, including Shepard.

As for other options, maybe missions that can have multiple paths to go through them. Depending on the squad members with you opens up different doors, to include different enemy types or obstacles. Maybe a door that needs something hit with two snipers so you need Garrus and a Infiltrator Shepard, or Garrus and another sniper character. Maybe something that requires moving large objects so you need a biotic team with the ability to lift.

[Mondo47]

I have a ship full of people relegated to ship duties. Only characters I use with any regularity are Grunt, Zaeed, Jack, Garrus and Tali. In seven playthroughs I think I've used Thane (outside of loyalty missions) about five times...

No idea how you could 'cure' this issue though... I think characters suit some people's playstyles better. There should be some incentive though to take them out of mothballs though. Missions requiring specific skills, maybe? Like a medic, or a technician, or an expert sniper - whatever?

[AntiChri5]

Miranda is one of the most usefull general squaddies in terms of skillset.

[Caihn]

DiatribeEQ wrote...
So, with all that said, what can be done (via ME3) to make folks such as Jacob & Miranda more attactive for the player to bring more often?

Nothing.
I always chose Miranda not only because I like the character, but she's also one of the best squad mate for combat.

Most used characters for combat : Miranda and Garrus.

[Koen Casier]

• Allow the player to train NPC's in the use of certain weapons / powers for example you should be able to dedicate some resources (I don't mean that every NPC should be able to learn every power (e.g. Garrus should not be able to learn any biotic power only tech and weapon powers)) only that the player should be able to customize / manage his squad members powers and their (re)training better.
• Allow three instead of two NPC's to accompanying you on missions, probably by making either tougher missions or make each NPC less powerful (preferable the former).
• Missions should feature a variety of challenges that would be clearly meant for certain class of NPC henchmen call them "mission specialist", not having that NPC with you would make your mission difficult (but not impossible) At the start of the mission the mission specialist(s) should clearly be named (e.g. "this mission will require a tech expert so you will probably want to take Tali or Legion")
• Encourage swap outs by giving squad members duties on the Normandy (e.g. if you take Garrus with you all the time the weapon systems don't get the calibrations needed and underperform, if you always take Jacob your weapons will have a slightly higher chance to jamming in combat) but not so much so that the player is forced to do so (it must be seen as an encouragement not a penalty so more display it as a bonus instead as a penalty (e.g. in the Garrus case your weapon systems get a +10% bonus if he gets enough time to calibrate them not -10% penalty if he does not calibrate them regularly) also it should not be all or nothing proposition (e.g. taking Garrus one too many times with you will not immediately mean you lose your entire bonus instead it would slowly degrade to 0 over multiple missions)
• If you really want to do it in hard handed way: a keeping per character XP score so that only those that go on a mission level up. (this would however open a whole other can of worms regarding level and gameplay design)

[Barquiel]

I could be wrong, but I doubt Miranda is underplayed.
-warp, overload, squad bonus...and she has a large fanbase^_^
I found Samara and Miranda the most useful.

Jacob...You are right (I usually ignore Tali, Jack and Mordin as well)

[Phaelducan]

Hmm, interesting. I find that Jacob with Pull Field and Miranda with Unstable Warp makes for REALLY fast combat.



Not that there aren't lots of good combinations... but I certainly don't find Jacob + Miranda to be lacking in effectiveness.

[Gaddmeister]

Barquiel wrote...

I could be wrong, but I doubt Miranda is underplayed.
-warp, overload, squad bonus...and she has a large fanbase^_^
I found Samara and Miranda the most useful.

Jacob...You are right (I usually ignore Tali, Jack and Mordin as well)

I doubt that too. Miranda's squad bonus, warp and overload is the reason I had her on basically every mission when I played on insanity. She's easily the best squad mate imo.

[HeyBlade789]

I love miranda for her warp ability

[Vaenier]

I used Garrus and Grunt for the entire game. When I got Legion, it became Legion/Grunt for the suicide mission. never used the others outside their loyalty missions

[Foolsfolly]

There is no 'fix'. I get what they were trying to do here. In ME1 if I was a combat heavy character I'd always bring Liara and Tali because they were the best at biotics or tech which I wasn't. If I was Biotics or tech I'd bring Ashley and Liara or Tali. I liked Garrus, loved Wrex, and generally got along with Kaidan but I felt like I'd rather have these three with me regardless.



In ME2 there are less powers spread across more diverse crew. So it really felt like they were specialists and not doing the same thing as another character. Sadly this is a touch untrue for a few people (Jacob mainly). But most missions I felt like I could tailor my away team to fit the situation best which each crew member (other than Jacob) adding something to the crew.



So all I'd say for ME3 is to continue this specialization line of thought. This character is the best at this situation but not so much for that one. Like Garrus and Grunt are very similar in my mind. But I bring Garrus along whenever I know there's a heavy mech presence (more so than Tali even though I love the character) while Grunt's frontline and center during large fleshy combat.

[Captain Iglo]

I dont think there is something to "fix" ...except maybe for poor Jacob I think every character has its fair share of haters and lovers...I dont think that you can love all characters and I dont want that...its cool if some people actualy hate characters which some love again...

I mean I love it that I often just pick the characters because I like em...

I for myself just always pick Samara ...I just always take her with me without even thinking about the why.

[Throw_this_away]

Phaelducan wrote...

Hmm, interesting. I find that Jacob with Pull Field and Miranda with Unstable Warp makes for REALLY fast combat.

Not that there aren't lots of good combinations... but I certainly don't find Jacob + Miranda to be lacking in effectiveness.

I am using the Miranda/Jacob combo for much of my current playthrough and I agree that the two are very effective together.  Probably the best combo of squaddies yet.  Overload/warp and then pull = fast death.  

Miranda has always been a staple in my squad (and is historically very popular on high difficulties with many people).  With her squad bonuses and warp/overload, she is very useful for flexability and shields/barriers/armor. 

Miranda, Garrus, Legion, Zaeed, all get heavy rotation in my squads (all very flexable squadies).   I have NEVER chosen Tali.  I use Jack for the abandoned reaper ship mission (shockwave) only. I can't remember choosing Samara. 


To the OP, no "fix" is needed.  PLayers just need to make more effort to try different squaddies/tactics.  I am making that effort now and finding it to be fun... even finding that some squaddies (like JAcob) are pretty darn good in combat.  

[Foolsfolly]

Captain Iglo wrote...

I dont think there is something to "fix" ...except maybe for poor Jacob I think every character has its fair share of haters and lovers...I dont think that you can love all characters and I dont want that...its cool if some people actualy hate characters which some love again...
I mean I love it that I often just pick the characters because I like em...
I for myself just always pick Samara ...I just always take her with me without even thinking about the why.

Why? Crowd control, Reave, and an assault rifle. That's why.

[smudboy]

Simple: cut them.

[Sleepicub09]

smudboy wrote...

Simple: cut them.

what the hell. you may not like to take certain characters , but that doesn't mean everybody don't for: example Miranda was in my squad alot; jacob as well. of course after I got legion jacob was pushed to the sidelines after I got legion, but the fact remains I used jacob for the majority of the game. smudboy  what good would cutting do. NONE.

[smudboy]

Sleepicub09 wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Simple: cut them.

what the hell. you may not like to take certain characters , but that doesn't mean everybody don't for: example Miranda was in my squad alot; jacob as well. of course after I got legion jacob was pushed to the sidelines after I got legion, but the fact remains I used jacob for the majority of the game. smudboy  what good would cutting do. NONE.

Good:
-More time for telling a better story with essential, personalized, plot driven characters
-More time for fleshing out more balanced game play with class specific characters, customized equipment and skills
-More time for deeper characterization

[Phaelducan]

Oh yeah, Jacob can be great in combat, particularly after you do his loyalty mission.



I'm running a Vanguard right now, and I typically put up Jacob's Barrier, have him use a Pull Field on the front attackers then just run him in the thick of things.



I actually die less with Jacob and Miranda than I do with Zaeed and Garrus (both of which are also great characters).

[Phaelducan]

To Smudboy, I disagree. The story of ME2 IS the story of your squadmates on the suicide mission. They don't drive the plot.... they are the plot.