170 réponses à ce sujet

[chaos_Shadow15]

In Mass Effect 1, I had a hard time weighing the pros and cons of letting the council live and die. However, at the end of the day I decided that, with the supportive words from my squad mates as well as my own moral deliberation, that it would be be best to choose the "Focus on Soveriegn" option solely because apparently ALOT of people would die. (This was told to me by my squad mates and others) So it was an option between sacrificing lots of lives or saving a few members of the council.

Now what I don't understand is, why does this decision carry such negative weight in Mass Effect 2?  I can understand most alien species being angry simply because of their own ignorance towards humans, regardless of reasoning, but humans? Anderson? Shepherd is constantly chastised for letting the council die and I don't understand why emphasis wasn't put on the point that it was done to save lives, and not because of Shepherds selfish goals for humanity.

I made this decision because I believed that political figures were no more worthy
than a larger collection of the citizens that it governs, and that
political stability would be a worthy sacrifice in turn to save many
lives. But it seems that those apparent lives that were saved had no effect at all on any level - Shepherd was treated like a renegade and an ass for the decision, and there is no mention of those who were saved.

Please share your thoughts on the issue here.

[Vaenier]

Its Bioware forcefully imposing their morals onto players. its the same with the genophage cure, and the collector base.

[GodWood]

Vaenier wrote...

Its Bioware forcefully imposing their morals onto players. its the same with the genophage cure, and the collector base.

We have yet to see the effects of the genophage cure and the Collector base, whats your problem there?

[AntiChri5]

More people die if you hold your forces back.



The Destiny Ascension is the galaxies largest dreadnought (not counting reapers of course) and its crew numbers in the thousands, if you send your forces in earlier six hundred(ish) more humans die than if you waited.

[Puppet Doctor]

I actually agree with you on this kind of. I went total Renegade though so obviously said kill the council. But then when I played ME2 I was kind of pissed off that the stupid Human Council wouldn't even speak to you.



After seeing what happens when you saved the council I went back to ME1 just to do a pure Paragon playthrough and now even when I plan to go Renegade I always use that playthrough. I find that saving the council has more added benefits.

[Ray Joel Oh]

Seems sensible to me. If you destroyed all of Washington DC it would have a bigger impact on the country than if you destroyed all of Los Angeles. Both are horrible options that would have devastating affects but one would also leave the government in shambles. The Council is the center of government for the galaxy. By taking them out you are essentially instating a military coup. People don't like that.

[GreedIsNoException]

It doesn't matter whether Shepard would bother explaining, you said it yourself ignorance. They'd be blinded by them being pissed that humans have more power now. Though I must say that I mostly think it's because of the "Sovereign still active in the Citadel" theory.



Anyways, they're all mad at Shepard even if he saves the Council.... well at least the humans in most part.

[Kokkostan]

I would have spared the genophage cure and sacrificed the council, but those were kind of forced to make otherwise like chaos_Shadow15 said. Altough I was happy that I couldn't save the cure when Mordin told more about the whole genophage. Actually his opinions were very close to mine.

[AntiChri5]

Shandepared wrote...

The lives lost in the battle don't matter. The only thing that should factor into your reasoning is whether or not saving the Council will affect your ability to take down Sovereign.

Nothing else matters.

I repeat, nothing else matters.

And the Destiny Ascension (with the most powerful gun in the known universe) is a useful asset for doing so.

[AntiChri5]

Shandepared wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

And the Destiny Ascension (with the most powerful gun in the known universe) is a useful asset for doing so.

The Destiny Asension is moments away from destruction and is not going to help you. If it were in the condition to continue the fight it wouldn't be screaming for help.

The kinetic barriers being down does not mean the super powerful long range cannon is broken.

[GreedIsNoException]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

And the Destiny Ascension (with the most powerful gun in the known universe) is a useful asset for doing so.

The Destiny Asension is moments away from destruction and is not going to help you. If it were in the condition to continue the fight it wouldn't be screaming for help.

The kinetic barriers being down does not mean the super powerful long range cannon is broken.

But Asension also holds the most powerful aliens in the universe? (well in Citadel space of course), they represent the political power and without them I bet reconstruction after Sovereign's attack was tough

[Kokkostan]

Yes, and if I remember correctly Asension just took the Council to the safety and didn't join to the battle.

[AntiChri5]

Kokkostan wrote...

Yes, and if I remember correctly Asension just took the Council to the safety and didn't join to the battle.

Proof?

Even if that were so there was no way for Shep to know they would run.

[AntiChri5]

Shandepared wrote...

GreedIsNoException wrote...

But Asension also holds the most powerful aliens in the universe? (well in Citadel space of course), they represent the political power and without them I bet reconstruction after Sovereign's attack was tough

They don't matter and the Ascension's firepower doesn't matter because the ship is no condition to fight. If it survives being attacked it is going to flee, it is not going to attack Sovereign. In fleeing the Ascension will probably take several allied craft with it to escort it to safety.

Do you have any idea what the range of a dreadnaught is?

[chaos_Shadow15]

How did we get into a discussion about the Dreadnoughts power?



Let's try and get back on topic a bit more.

[AntiChri5]

chaos_Shadow15 wrote...

How did we get into a discussion about the Dreadnoughts power?

Let's try and get back on topic a bit more.

It was a big part of this decision for me, rather than just "me hero save council yay!!!!!" Or "die aliens die!"

[DPSSOC]

Yeah the Council decision kinda sucks. I understand aliens being pissy with you, that makes sense, I even understand a new mixed race Council (if you went that route) wouldn't be willing to speak with you. An all human Council though? Humanity is top dog now because of me, those pricks have a job because of me, and they won't even give me a chance to explain what the hell is going on. Now I understand it from the devs point of view (3 new councillors means 3 new models and VAs) but from a story point of view I don't get it.

[GreedIsNoException]

Shandepared wrote...

GreedIsNoException wrote...

But Asension also holds the most powerful aliens in the universe? (well in Citadel space of course), they represent the political power and without them I bet reconstruction after Sovereign's attack was tough

They don't matter and the Ascension's firepower doesn't matter because the ship is no condition to fight. If it survives being attacked it is going to flee, it is not going to attack Sovereign. In fleeing the Ascension will probably take several allied craft with it to escort it to safety.

I didn't mean battle, I meant like pulling things together politically and stuff. Though I agree with you that I think Asension didn't join the battle. Because they were fleeing to protect the Council and the survivors from the Citadel.

[GreedIsNoException]

DPSSOC wrote...

Yeah the Council decision kinda sucks. I understand aliens being pissy with you, that makes sense, I even understand a new mixed race Council (if you went that route) wouldn't be willing to speak with you. An all human Council though? Humanity is top dog now because of me, those pricks have a job because of me, and they won't even give me a chance to explain what the hell is going on. Now I understand it from the devs point of view (3 new councillors means 3 new models and VAs) but from a story point of view I don't get it.

Exactly, I got pissed when I played my Paragon/Xenophobic/FemShep because of that! They didnt wanna talk to me after I made humanity the top dog, I made humans the best of the best and they woudlnt wanna say "hi Shep, we apreatiate you... blah blah, etc". I think it might have to do with Cerberus but I was tempted to give the hate to Cerberus again because of this. Imagine how the HUMAN coucil will treat you after making them EVEN MORE powerful?

Modifié par GreedIsNoException, 04 avril 2010 - 12:48 .

[Shazzammer2]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Kokkostan wrote...

Yes, and if I remember correctly Asension just took the Council to the safety and didn't join to the battle.

Proof?

Even if that were so there was no way for Shep to know they would run.

If i remember correctly, the Ascension sent out a distress signal stating the Council was on board. Shepard and the Alliance fleet heard the call.