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[Xaijin]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

kglaser wrote...

Youtube, baby
I just looked up the culmination of the Jacob love scene on there...and man, it was cringeworthy to me...ugh, SO not going down that road

I didn't even give it the pleasure.  I heard about the prize line and I have to say, I lost a lot of respect for a character that seemed respectable as a manshep.

And honestly, what does he think he is if he isn't worthy of miranda?  How can the devs even make him a romance option for shepard, the savior of the galaxy?

If you listen closely, he says he didn't make the grade because she did the grading.

[Lucky Thirteen]

That is all.

[Neria Rose]

Lucky Thirteen wrote...



That is all.

*lick* :wub::wub:

[T3hMerc]

Garrus and Thane are both perfectly acceptable

[GodWood]

Liso66 wrote...

This is mostly to Bioware.
.
I do not wish to stir anything up. Nor do I wish for it to ignite any flaming.

One of my very few complaints with Mass Effect 2, was the uneven romance options for male and female characters. While the male character gets a choice between three females, and two of them human. They also get better romance scenes.

Having said that. I came to a final conclusion. I am sad that it seems that the Bioware writers created the female romance options, not for female players. It is geared for the male players, playing female characters. All for kicks and giggles. Between the comments that Solis makes, and the scenes themselves. This could not have possibly been intended for the female player.

The male Shepard not only gets much better options, the romance itself is much more deep. "not that any of them are really all that deep" but the comparable is very unbalanced. The scenes are more steamy and sexy for the male character.

The female Shepard? Garrus, Thane, and Jacob.

First let me say, Garrus is a cool buddy. but a romance option? Maybe if my character was addicted to red sand and Garrus had her next fix. The romance scenes are sooo incredibly lame as well. Some cheesy dialog from Garrus with heads touching, then a fade screen?

Thane. A cool persona, but c'mon.. looks like the creature from the black lagoon and dieing.. All to get some drama about dieing, kiss, then fade screen.

I have no clue about Jacob as he is so boring, I would never bother.

I have to say you're wrong in your thoughts that; Bioware created these romances for men playing as females, the quality and distribution of romances is better for male gamers and that Bioware eisn't aware og their female audience.

I personally thought that both Garrus' and Thane's romances played out much better than Miranda's (They tie with *Jack and Tali's), so thats hardly uneven at all.

As for the romances themselves;
Garrus was a romance option because of an outcry of female gamers who had developed a crush on him and hoped to pursue a relationship with him in ME2.
(Bioware listening to their female fans)

Bioware stated that Thane (and along the whole drell race) were designed with the female gamer in mind as they wanted a sexy "malien" romance for female gamers to pursue, they chose to design the drell species as something thats both "exotic and sexy".
(Again Bioware acknowledging their female audience)

Fianlly Jacob, well I guess he's there for those who don't want to pursue an alien assassin or an alien vigilante and are looking for something a little more....vannilla.
TBH his romance isn't that bad if you play through the whole thing....
...

Anyways your complaints on the romances seemed to be rather shallow and superficial as your main problem with them was simply the fact that Thane "looks like the creature from the black lagoon" and that Garrus' romance required you to "be a character [that] was addicted to red sand and Garrus had her next fix", also you say they weren't as steamy as the male romances, now me personally would pick more dialogue over a steamy dry hump any day (each to their own)

So all I'm saying is I don't think its fair for you to criticize Bioware for ignoring their female audience when they in fact did the opposite.

*Jack had the best romance.

Modifié par GodWood, 05 avril 2010 - 02:00 .

[Liso66]

@ GodWood

All due respect, telling me I am "wrong" in my opinion is fairly harsh in itself. It is just an opinion. No right or wrong involved. As I stated before, everyone is going to have a different view point. I shared mine, which I am starting to regret. Some agree with me, and some don't. I was not looking for validation, just sharing my opinion.

On a side note. I adore Garrus "as a buddy" That was the feeling left off ME1 and felt too weird in ME2 to pursue for me. Thane? Excellent character, and he was my romance choice. I do not feel it was all bad.. Something just felt amiss to me.

Thank you for sharing your opinion with me. I won't be telling you, you are wrong..

Regards
Liso

Modifié par Liso66, 05 avril 2010 - 02:20 .

[Gabey5]

everything is opinion... there are plenty of females who love the romance options as they are

[Ray Joel Oh]

My only complaint is that I wish all of the ME2 romances had more conversation to them. But I don't agree that there's any deficiency in the options for male or female choices. Guys get more in the way of sex scenes, but I'm fine with tasteful ambiguity. I definitely disagree with your opinion that they didn't take the female romances seriously.

[IccaRa]

I also respectfully disagree. While Thane is my favorite love interest by far I adore all the romances and respect them for what they are. I do not feel they were any less thoughtful than any other romance and that each was carefully considered, designed to appeal to different tastes, and I appreciate the variety.

(Even if Jacob's romance progression is kind of, um. Derpy?)

Modifié par IccaRa, 05 avril 2010 - 02:38 .

[Ray Joel Oh]

Hey now, there is no reason why a concept artist would draw aliens' junk. Remember the Christmas movies about Santa--You don't have to see something to believe in it.

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 05 avril 2010 - 02:39 .

[Peppard]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Peppard wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

sagequeen wrote...
agreed.
i may get some flaming for saying this, but look to NWN2 or twilight or just about any romance novel, movie, etc. written for women and you'll see what is popular:
2 hot guys that LIKE YOU.
why is tali so popular? she loves shep and always has. THAT is attractive: interested is interesting.
the unbelievable luke-warm response that you get from the guys in ME2 just makes me say guh.... "i don't have some fetish for humans or anything" wow. thanks. again, this is fantasy - and the fantasy is that someone will like you - better yet, more than one person will like you and you get to pick the best of the lot. not throw yourself att them like the PRIIIIIZE.
it's not that the guys aren't cool squadmates, all the characters are well written. just they come off as very boring romance wise if they just don't seem interested in shep without her throwing herself at them like tramps.
okay, go ahead and hate me if you like, but that's my criticism of the writing there.

Femshep behaving towards Jacob is a little trampish IMO, but I don't see the rest of your argument.  I sense jealousy in your post.

buahhahahaha!

really? you...

hahahaha!

that's funny.

yes. i am jealous of bella who has an icecube and a puppy in love with her.

or...not.

i really can't defend myself against a charge of jealousy without talking about my personal life, which is not something i'm going to do. 

not sure if you're a guy or a girl, if you read romance ever, whatever.  the point is this: interested in interesting. people want to be wanted, women and men. that's what makes for good romance plots - the characters actually connect and want each other. me2 really didn't read that way for femshep.

there, i actually bothered to restate my point. but...you'll probably just ignore it and throw another ad hominem attack at me....geh...why do i bother? (because the movie is boring...)

Relax a little=p:innocent:

Jealous of what exactly? I'll admit to some jealousy, namely, that as I'm not a male gamer wired to appreciate all the female eye candy in the game, I   feel like I'm missing out on part of the experience.

 Mind you, I don't expect that design aesthetic to change, but when I read something like the OP's points, I just think "Say what?".   It's kind of like being a vegetarian in a steak house, picking over your luke-warm side salad, while the meat eater stands up and complains that his filet mignon was just a tad overdone and he wanted hamburger anyway.   Well, let me pull out the tiny violin for you dude.

 I do agree with Sagequeen's point, though,  that having someone interested in you is attractive, but there's also the "hard to get"storyline, which can be fun in its own way.    In the Sci-Fi genre, the first version  that comes to mind is Stargate SG-1's storyline of Vala's  (the awesome Claudia Black) pursuit of Daniel (the equally awesome Michael Shanks).   She's pretty over the top in her pursuit, but it worked with her character and his.  Unfortunately, I can't say the same about femshep's pursuit of Jacob.  

I think some girlgamers like sagequeen, are expecting a romance novel in the game.  That is not what it is though.  That is not where thier sales are at. 
I watched a little SG-1, but not as much as you have though.  TBH personally I don't focus much at all on the romances in the game.  I don't have any interest in ME2 LI's either though.  I did all of the LI romances once for the experience.  My favorite character is not romancable. I may change my tact in future playthroughs though and focus a little more on the LI's.

How do you equate noticing a difference in the way Bioware designs female versus male LI's (or even flirtatious characters) with   "wanting a romance novel?".      Personally, I don't want the story to overwhelm the game--I often get antsy and want to get back to the action so I can get my headshot or charge fix in.   But to the extent that BW decided to invest some money into creating characters to appeal to women, like Thane, it is also clear that they 
all of those designs have to satisfy some "bro-able" quotient, whereas the female characters never have to satisfy the "BFF-able" feel for a woman in the ME series.   They did a more even job in Dragon Age, and that's far from a "romance novel".     I just want the character interaction to be interesting, and I've seen plenty of what I assume are male gamers (since that's how they describe themselves) say the same thing.  It's not that I want a different type of game from what BW did with ME, but that I feel they could have done a better job with the part of their budget (small though it may be) that they devoted towards appealing to women.  As I said, I don't expect them to increase the size of that budget or anything.   

[FenixFire]

I still think all romantic intrests had potential, for both male & female players. The only thing they lacked was enough dialogue. Not only did relationships advance way too fast, not being able to talk about anything else after you said you just wanted to remain friends seemed lazy on the writer's part at best. The things they did include in terms of dialogue were okay, it just needed more of it to seem like a realistic relationship imo.



About the Jacob romance, I saw the convo's on Youtube and it does seem like Female Shepard just throws herself at him, talking to him with a sultry voice. She even seems more desperate than Tali, who already throws herself at Male Shepard who has to do virtually no effort to get her.



About not liking any of the 3 romances, you could just stick to your love intrest from ME1. I didn't care enough about the 3 new women aboard the Normandy to love them so I just remained loyal to Ashley, my romantic intrest from ME1. Ashley, Kaiden & Liara are very different from the new romatic intrests, thus it ain't that hard to remain loyal if you like those characters better imo.

[GodWood]

Liso66 wrote...

@ GodWood

All due respect, telling me I am "wrong" in my opinion is fairly harsh in itself. It is just an opinion. No right or wrong involved.

I don't think I was harsh (nor was I intending to be)

I was simply saying you were wrong in your assumption that Bioware created these romances for men playing as females, the quality and distribution of romances is better for male gamers and that Bioware isn't aware of their female audience.

Whether you like the romances or not is entirely up to opinion of course, I was simply correcting you in your views of Bioware's motivations behind the romances.

2 completely different things.

[Masticetobbacco]

imported_beer wrote...

I saw the romances on youtube. Men do get the hawter smecks scenes, but given that two of the fem romance options are alien, maybe the problem that Bioware faced was...ahem...how exactly to depict them.

I was under the impression women hated games with secks, especially xenophilia

[AngryP1xel]

Masticetobbacco wrote...

imported_beer wrote...

I saw the romances on youtube. Men do get the hawter smecks scenes, but given that two of the fem romance options are alien, maybe the problem that Bioware faced was...ahem...how exactly to depict them.

I was under the impression women hated games with secks, especially xenophilia

I have no problem with sex in video games and long as it's well portrayed and not just there because it can be.  As for xenophilia, I personally find Garrus and Thane to be the most attractive men in the series.  I'm not saying Kaiden and Jacob are ugly.  I just find the two aliens more attractive as well as more interesting.

[sagefic]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
I think some girlgamers like sagequeen, are expecting a romance novel in the game.  That is not what it is though.  That is not where thier sales are at. 

o.O

wait. are you saying that the appeal of bioware games is not relational? uh, cause i'd beg to differ. sure, i LOVE to shoot at stuff after a day at work, and i LOVE so many other aspects of the game, but the reason i'm shooting stuff up in mass effect and not halo is because there is a story there and part of that story is relational. if you take a look on these forums, much of the discussion is about the character and relationships. and what's so wrong with expecting a sideplot of romance?

i am not asking for a romance novel in the game. besides being cheesy and boring, that's not possible. but there ARE some things that bioware could do to make the romances more interesting to the women that they are already doing for the men. example:

Hot Intro Sequences:
Ashely - runs in and and shoots stuff dramatically
Kaiden - sits in a chair talking to joker
Liara - hanging in mid air making sultry eyes at shepard
Garrus - first time we meet him, arguing with his boss (granted, he did have a dramatic entrance w/ dr. michelle and his ME2 entrance was so cool i thought he'd stolen the game from shepard)
Tali - turning away turian advances, overloading guns, being generally cool
Miranda - slow pan up (over and over and over again)
Jacob - cowering from light mechs
Jack - slow pan up her body before taking out 3 heavy mechs (why can't she do that again?)
Samara - slow pan up her body (know she's not a romance option, but fanservice is there)
Thane - the ONLY cool entrance for a male LI. the only one!

We constantly see intros for the female characters where they are made to look sexy and cool, dangerous or vulnerable - sometimes all at once. Then there are the myriad shots of women's butts, boobs, etc. as a female gamer, i expect this and i go with it. comes with the territory. but there are no cool-guy-comes-in-shooting stuff for the male LIs - especially the human ones in this game. there are moments where the male LIs look good, but that's more an accident of the model being good and catching it with the right screen shot than anything intentional.

so Right there, you have room for improvement: just give the men LIs the same chance to look cool that the female LIs have. malehsep should be tough enough to take another cool man on this ship.

[Xaijin]

Garrus was shooting people in the FACE and telling shep to not interrupt him....



both times.

[SarEnyaDor]

No, first time you meet Garrus he is having a discussion with his boss in the lobby of the Citadel Tower before you go and talk to the council. If you chose not to speak with him until the medlab, that's fine, you still saw him before that and just didn't interact.

Modifié par SarEnyaDor, 05 avril 2010 - 04:28 .

[Ray Joel Oh]

Xaijin wrote...

Garrus was shooting people in the FACE and telling shep to not interrupt him....

both times.

Seriously!  Garrus got two fantastic intros.  And Thane got his sexy cool assassination hug thing.  Jacob and Kaiden didn't get any great intros but they got the hottest love scenes.

[Sad Dragon]

yfhfrg wrote...

I dunno how alone I am in this, but as a male gamer quite frankly I prefer the 'fade to black' to the steamy scene.

I seconed this.

[Xaijin]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

No, first time you meet Garrus he is having a discussion with his boss in the lobby of the Citadel Tower before you go and talk to the council. If you chose not to speak with him until the medlab, that's fine, you still saw him before that and just didn't interact.

Not his INTRO though. You hear about a DAMN TURIAN >< plenty before you go down the corridor of death, I'm talking strictly about characterization and direct character exposition. SAREN IS DOODOO FACE JERKBUTT hardly qualifies, seeing as the player has already had that literally metagamed to him via Saren's OMG NOOB HAX cutscene.

Modifié par Xaijin, 05 avril 2010 - 05:00 .

[Ray Joel Oh]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

No, first time you meet Garrus he is having a discussion with his boss in the lobby of the Citadel Tower before you go and talk to the council. If you chose not to speak with him until the medlab, that's fine, you still saw him before that and just didn't interact.

I consider the headshot part of his introduction, since it's the moment he is presented as a potential squadmate.  But it's beside the point, because Sage's point was that the male LIs don't get many cool moments to show off what badasses they are, and that is just not fact.

Still, I wouldn't discourage them from including more badass moments...

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 05 avril 2010 - 04:52 .