535 réponses à ce sujet

[kglaser]

Hey, come on now...it takes all kinds of people to make a world

[Ray Joel Oh]

sagequeen wrote...

twilight. (shudder) i my point was that there is not that twilight should be the standard. god forbid. my point was merely that there is a reason the formula of that particular love story carries across the female demographic. 2 hot guys fighting for you is appealing - EVEN if you know it's a pretty ridiculous thing IRL. i may dislike that series, but i will grant that reading the first book (far as i got) i found myself saying, "sheesh, if *I* was in bella's shoes...i'd...augh! what am i saying?" it's the fantasy of being the center of attention. not that everyone gets that or wants that in their rational thinking. but that THAT fantasy does appeal across a wide demographic and often in spite of common sense.

and as for what LI doesn't like you, i just mean the man seem to be lukewarm. or maybe it's just the romances were so short they seemed lukewarm:

garrus: "i won't pretend i have some fetish for humans" - dropped the romance right there for me. but maybe some folks read that differently than i did.
thane: shep says "i want you" - not an option i feel like choosing after the guy is talking about his dead wife that he loved
jacob: ugh...i just didn't even talk to him shep went so out of character weird with that guy.
kaiden: has the smile after the eden prime mission - is clearly interested. this one actually played the way i prefer romances to play.

I think it's a good switch that while Kaiden and Liara pursue you in the first game, you need to pursue others in the second game, especially considering how common it is for people to have already been in a romance with one of the ME1 characters.  And I definitely didn't mind taking charge, especially considering how uncomfortable it made me feel to be forced to shoot one character or the other down in ME1.  Liara and Kaiden were both nice people, and it was easy to lead them on. 
Even though femshep addresses Jacob in a sultry voice, you still have to make the active decision to pursue any of her relationships in ME2.  And I personally consider the fact that the male LIs aren't all actively hitting on their commanding officer to be a sign of respect and professionalism.  Maybe it feels different to me because femshep is a woman versus a man, but I wouldn't like having all the guys under my command automatically assuming they have a shot with me.  Fall in line, dammit!
But I never got the impression that any of them had trouble liking you.  Garrus is already a friend, Thane is a hopeless romantic, and Jacob is always working for your respect.  As for "I won't pretend I have a fetish for humans," I thought that was a great line.  It's not a kink, the attraction was earned from respect and admiration.  Which makes sense to me, because I definitely wasn't attracted to Garrus when I met him, either.  I think anybody who's developed the hots for an ugly boyfriend understands.  Plus hey, no threat from Yeoman Kelly!

[kglaser]

I don't think Garrus is ugly--turians are awesome!! (although you know I freaked when I first saw Nihlus. LOL)

[Ray Joel Oh]

He grows on you. Eye of the beholder and all that. Wouldn't have thought I could swoon at Steve Buscemi or Alan Rickman either.

[IccaRa]

Sometimes it feels like people forget how everyone (especially female players) complained in ME1 over how easy it was to accidentally romance someone. Because so many of the triggers could go off without your express intention (ie, one conversation with Liara or just talking nice to Kaidan = WELP HERE I AM IN YOUR QUARTERS) people were frustrated. They didn't feel like they had any control over these characters jumping Shepard's bones.



In ME2 it seems that the devs made a conscious decision to let Shepard take the lead in the romance department, funneling the path down to obvious prompts and letting the player feel like they were in control not only of the beginning but also the end of any relationship. You can actually break up with characters now, you actually have to expend some effort romancing others. It's a lot harder to trip into them on accident.



As far as I'm concerned that's an improvement. For some of the characters it becomes obvious that they were fostering feelings for Shepard before the actual romance began, it just happened without the aid of a "balcony scene" (as much as I liked the ME1 balcony scene.)

[Xaijin]

Oh it's been around far longer than the 70s lol.

[Collider]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

Lol..any guy who says he has no interest in F/F is either gay himself or dead....

And any guy who makes ^ this statement is immature and/or ignorant.

[sagefic]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

I think it's a good switch that while Kaiden and Liara pursue you in the first game, you need to pursue others in the second game, especially considering how common it is for people to have already been in a romance with one of the ME1 characters.  And I definitely didn't mind taking charge, especially considering how uncomfortable it made me feel to be forced to shoot one character or the other down in ME1.  Liara and Kaiden were both nice people, and it was easy to lead them on. 

huh. that's a good point.

i guess because shep is the captain (effectively), i find it very weird to have him/her come on so strongly to a crew member. reeks of "let's hit on the intern" or something. except with my renegade male shep- seemed he'd hit on miranda just to be that guy - creepy smile and all.

[sagefic]

Collider wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Maviarab wrote...

Lol..any guy who says he has no interest in F/F is either gay himself or dead....

And any guy who makes ^ this statement is immature and/or ignorant.

or a troll. oh, wait, same thing, my bad.

[Collider]

sagequeen wrote...

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

I think it's a good switch that while Kaiden and Liara pursue you in the first game, you need to pursue others in the second game, especially considering how common it is for people to have already been in a romance with one of the ME1 characters.  And I definitely didn't mind taking charge, especially considering how uncomfortable it made me feel to be forced to shoot one character or the other down in ME1.  Liara and Kaiden were both nice people, and it was easy to lead them on. 

huh. that's a good point.

i guess because shep is the captain (effectively), i find it very weird to have him/her come on so strongly to a crew member. reeks of "let's hit on the intern" or something. except with my renegade male shep- seemed he'd hit on miranda just to be that guy - creepy smile and all.

[Xaijin]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Oh it's been around far longer than the 70s lol.

Yes,  but not accepted in society like the last 20yrs.

Sure it has. Was pretty much the NORM in Greek and Roman society. In fact in both societies you were EXPECTED to be with same sex FOR SEX until it was time to seriously think about long term relationships, and those who had the connections or charisma played both sides of the fence in DROVES for the rest of their lives, as in the majority of the population.

In Japan if you got a Noh theater player, you were the ****, everybody knew you were a great lover and awesome, including chicks who were gonna marry you. Everyone in the Noh theater were guys.

Modifié par Xaijin, 06 avril 2010 - 03:01 .

[kaimanaMM]

The on-screen line is, "I want you, Thane."

That is not what comes out of Shepard's mouth.  What Shepard says is not at all tactless or crass and is actually quite appropriate for the conversation as well as the possible / potential feelings between her and Thane.  

Thane's romance is one of the better (best, in my opinion) romances Bioware has done.  It is beautiful in its evolution, for Thane himself and the relationship between him and Shepard.  If you can't see past Irikah, then that is your own fault, not Thane's.  Thane closed the door on that chapter of his life ten years before he even met Shepard.  It's unreasonable to think he shouldn't have loved her or felt strongly for her, he did, but he came to terms with her death and dealt with it in his own way. 

I think it's a huge improvement to have Shepard in the driver's seat when it comes to relationships this time around.  I much prefer that to the ninja romances of ME1 or having to be a total a--hat to Kaidan to get him to leave me alone. 

[Collider]

Xaijin wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Oh it's been around far longer than the 70s lol.

Yes,  but not accepted in society like the last 20yrs.

Sure it has. Was pretty much the NORM in Greek and Roman society. In fact in both societies you were EXPECTED to be with same sex FOR SEX until it was time to seriously think about long term relationships, and those who had the connections or charisma played both sides of the fence in DROVES for the rest of their lives, as in the majority of the population.

In Japan if you got a Noh theater player, you were the ****, everybody knew you were a great lover and awesome, including chicks who were gonna marry you. Everyone in the Noh theater were guys.

You realize there is a huge gap between modern civilization and ancient greek and roman society? Roman society eventually made homosexuality punishable by death, btw. And Japan does not equal the world.

[Ray Joel Oh]

It's still been almost ever-present to varying degrees in art and erotica.

[Lucky Thirteen]

I've been thinking about it a lot now, at least about Thane's romance.



For the end of the dialogue tree (I don't remember if it happened with Garrus, and I have no earthly clue with Jacob) but it seemed like the screen would fade to black after you picked one of the options about taking a vacation and stuff. To me it's always seemed like Shepard and Thane continued talking after that. I like to make up stuff of what they're talking about, like Shepard talking about her history.



I mean, who really wants to be bogged down with dialogue when playing this game, and who wants Bioware to put in Shepards history. I think they've left the past options for Shepard vague enough for players to come up with their own stuff and own personality.



Also, all the people complaining about the timing of the relationship being after talking about his dead wife and there's no build up, that IS NOT when the relationship starts. It can start there if you rush your way through the convo tree, but it can start way sooner with the part where he says he hasn't had a friend to talk to in forever and Shepard says "Friend, Huh? That's a start." That happens even before his loyalty quest, before he reveals that the memory of sunset eyes involves his wife. Then AFTER the loyalty quest he's comfortable enough to tell Shepard about his dead wife. At some point he's gotta talk about it, gotta make it clear, because that is his past and again, he didn't talk to anyone outside of his immediate family apparently.



Also, "I want you Thane" actually translates to "Maybe I haven't been as upfront as I should be. I'm here for you Thane, whatever you need." Which actually sounds more like a friends thing. From the sounds of it, Bioware should have reworded the option because people seem to think Shepard is going to say "Drop you pants now" and then tackle him across the table. I mean, the cot is right there behind him, anyone can think that.



Shepards not second rate compared to his wife, but that was his WIFE whom he had a child, that after she died, he chased down the guys that did it and killed them very unpleasantly in revengeful rage, that that just isn't like him. That's pretty friggen important to share at some point and he does hesitate about it, several times. He even says it's difficult to tell Shepard that he needs some help when you get to the loyalty quest. He isn't normally a very open person nor very emotional.



As for him not being over his wife, I doubt that when he dies (cause at this point, he is still dying), that Shepard would just get over it over night nor would forget him with time. I mean, in order for Shepard to want to be with him, she must have some strong feelings cause one of the first things out of his mouth when she meets him is that he's dying and the continuing level of baggage he has would drive most people away. Maybe that's why so many people have beef with his romance.



I also doubt that Shepard would never get into another relationship. He's probably still going to be alive in the next game or if he's somehow magically cured, I can't see why the romance can't be expanded on in ME3. ME2 can't be the end of it. Now that would be really poor story telling right there.



That whole thing actually has a really good, mature build up out of the three in ME2. Garrus and Jacob was more on the immature, let's just have sex side, though it is arguable about Garrus at the end. Even though Garrus's romance is way too awkward for me, I still want to give him a big hug. Jacob's doesn't ever seem to step into the romantic range, period, but that's only based on a few clips I've seen in youtube to be fair.



Kaiden was pretty much humping Shepards leg before I knew what the crap was really going on. I later learned you couldn't stop it till you get Liara, who also proceeds to humping Shepard's other leg and unleashes rumors all over the ship that you are in a relationship with her. Then you ****** the two of them off by telling them both to mind their own business when they inquire about the other.



At least, that's how I feel about the romances in ME1. ME2 is a bit more clear on how where to get the relationship started, and when to break it off early without being a total jerk when you decide you don't want to do it anymore (Garrus fully agreed on breaking up and suggested he and Shepard go blow up stuff instead. WIN!).



I guess I'd just rather be chasing then being chased, which makes Thane's recruitment mission pretty poetic for me.



Dawwwww. He threw a dead body at me. So romantic. 8D

[Xaijin]

Collider wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Oh it's been around far longer than the 70s lol.

Yes,  but not accepted in society like the last 20yrs.

Sure it has. Was pretty much the NORM in Greek and Roman society. In fact in both societies you were EXPECTED to be with same sex FOR SEX until it was time to seriously think about long term relationships, and those who had the connections or charisma played both sides of the fence in DROVES for the rest of their lives, as in the majority of the population.

In Japan if you got a Noh theater player, you were the ****, everybody knew you were a great lover and awesome, including chicks who were gonna marry you. Everyone in the Noh theater were guys.

You realize there is a huge gap between modern civilization and ancient greek and roman society? Roman society eventually made homosexuality punishable by death, btw. And Japan does not equal the world.

Of course, I'm ignoring societies that have third sexes (India, several countries in Africa) And western culture is DIRECTLY based on Greek and Roman laws and concepts. You're picking at straws.  It's been around FOREVER. It's super common in the animal kingdom, and it'll be around tomorrow. Roman Law made homosexuality bad when? When who adopted what? Conveniently on his deathbed?

Modifié par Xaijin, 06 avril 2010 - 03:22 .

[Ray Joel Oh]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
True, I never said that wasn't the case.

I never said you didn't, just saying

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 06 avril 2010 - 03:22 .

[kglaser]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

He grows on you. Eye of the beholder and all that. Wouldn't have thought I could swoon at Steve Buscemi or Alan Rickman either.

ALAN RICKMAN IS OTHERWORLDLY.

And Steve Buscemi is living proof that you don't have to be good-looking to be a movie star.  (and a very entertaining one, at that)

[Ray Joel Oh]

Alan Rickman has a jowly dog face. Doesn't stop him from being sexy as hell.