535 réponses à ce sujet

[Azint]

Collider wrote...

I thought FFXIII has romance in it?
He is right about the impossibly beautiful men though. Notice I say beautiful due to how ambiguous some of them look like.

Nope, no playable romance in FFXIII.

And it's not Final Fantasy without those androgynous beautiful men.

[sagefic]

Xaijin wrote...

Nope, that's a specific start.

Doesn't cover other suggestions for totally new complete content LIs, but as stated I don't think anyone's even gotten that far.

okay. cool. and i am interested in discussion, truly.

i don't have completely new content LIs, because i like the ones there. again, i think jacob could have used some MAJOR tweaking. but i can think up scenarios that would signal that the male LI is cool, but NOT buddy material. example: i really would love to see a scene like the following in a game:

Ending some dramatic fight. Cutscene:
PC steps back, takes a breath. PC nearly gets nailed in the head by mob.
Male LI shoots/slashes/whatever by mob, but PC turns with lightning reflexes and kills mob first.
Male LI: if PC is female or male LI is bi replies something like, "Well, and here I was trying to protect you. Being the...protector...man...and all. I keep forgetting you're a little more capable than most women (if bi: people) I know." (okay, that's weak sauce, but i'm making this up right now)
PC: can either yell at male LI for presumption, say thanks, i'm sure some girl will appreciate that some day, or thank the Male LI warmly.

anyhow. pax and all that. 

[Rocket Weazle]

Sorry but can you provide me an example of the female intros like the ones you mentioned?
When you properly meet Miranda, you have a body shot of her and she says "dead?" Jacob is pinned down and uses his biotics. (basically the same as Ashley's intro in ME1 as she was pinned down too remember) Jack just just explodes everything with her biotics, I can't remember Tali's, but Thane has a tottally badass intro but none of them mark them out as LI's from the start, sorry just not seeing it.

Modifié par Rocket Weazle, 06 avril 2010 - 10:17 .

[Collider]

@sad dragon

I'll give this a shot.

1) Female Shepard does not sound like all she wants is sex.

2) Jacob recounts his days as the daring space pirate, roaming the galaxy and having adventures across the stars.

3) He tells of his skillful and successful mission saving the Citadel from Batarian terrorists.

4) He doesn't say that Miranda requires a better woman.

5) He continues to ask female Shepard how she is feeling.

6) He pursues Female Shepard more, without disrespecting her. At the moment his romance begins with him seeming to think Female Shepard is sexually harrassing him. Which Hale does kind of sound like...

7) The romance speaks less about boinking and more about being friends and trusting one another.

8) When female shepard rejects him once or twice, he recognizes that Female Shepard does not think it is the right time for sexy time.

9) The "I love you" thing needs to change. Either throw it out or employ it better.

10) Jacob is introduced to Shepard in a flashy cutscene wear he uses his biotic abilities to decimate the mechs. The camera pans up his body or something.



I'm a guy so idk.

[Collider]

sagequeen wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Nope, that's a specific start.

Doesn't cover other suggestions for totally new complete content LIs, but as stated I don't think anyone's even gotten that far.

okay. cool. and i am interested in discussion, truly.

i don't have completely new content LIs, because i like the ones there. again, i think jacob could have used some MAJOR tweaking. but i can think up scenarios that would signal that the male LI is cool, but NOT buddy material. example: i really would love to see a scene like the following in a game:

Ending some dramatic fight. Cutscene:
PC steps back, takes a breath. PC nearly gets nailed in the head by mob.
Male LI shoots/slashes/whatever by mob, but PC turns with lightning reflexes and kills mob first.
Male LI: if PC is female or male LI is bi replies something like, "Well, and here I was trying to protect you. Being the...protector...man...and all. I keep forgetting you're a little more capable than most women (if bi: people) I know." (okay, that's weak sauce, but i'm making this up right now)
PC: can either yell at male LI for presumption, say thanks, i'm sure some girl will appreciate that some day, or thank the Male LI warmly.

anyhow. pax and all that. 

Are you sure about the "because I'm a man," bit?

[Sad Dragon]

Collider wrote...

I'm a guy so idk.

Well so am i so i have no better idea in reality then you heh. Though i think your list there is a good start. Oh and:

11. Get rid of "The Priiizzzzee"-line



/TSD

[Collider]

That was part of the "pursue femshep but not disrespectfully" segment of the list.

[Sad Dragon]

Ah, yes - my bad ^^



/TSD

[sagefic]

Collider wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Nope, that's a specific start.

Doesn't cover other suggestions for totally new complete content LIs, but as stated I don't think anyone's even gotten that far.

okay. cool. and i am interested in discussion, truly.

i don't have completely new content LIs, because i like the ones there. again, i think jacob could have used some MAJOR tweaking. but i can think up scenarios that would signal that the male LI is cool, but NOT buddy material. example: i really would love to see a scene like the following in a game:

Ending some dramatic fight. Cutscene:
PC steps back, takes a breath. PC nearly gets nailed in the head by mob.
Male LI shoots/slashes/whatever by mob, but PC turns with lightning reflexes and kills mob first.
Male LI: if PC is female or male LI is bi replies something like, "Well, and here I was trying to protect you. Being the...protector...man...and all. I keep forgetting you're a little more capable than most women (if bi: people) I know." (okay, that's weak sauce, but i'm making this up right now)
PC: can either yell at male LI for presumption, say thanks, i'm sure some girl will appreciate that some day, or thank the Male LI warmly.

anyhow. pax and all that. 

Are you sure about the "because I'm a man," bit?

ha. no. i'm not. but i had on my posting in the forum hat. not my creative writing hat. please, edit away. 

[Peppard]

Let me try to explain what you're doing another way. Let's say Ken and Gabby are talking. She complains that Gardner made Haggis again and it tastes like a** Instead of his funny "mighty fine" line, he says "Excuse me, but what should he have made instead?"



Gabby replies "I have no idea, maybe meatloaf."

Ken: "Do you have the recipe? Are the ingredients even available for Gardner? Can he expand the quantities to feed the crew on a rotating schedule?' What about allergies and protein chiralties for the Turian on board?

Gabby: I don't know, I just said the Haggis tasted like a**.

Ken: Well don't complain unless you can draw up a better menu item.

Gabby: Dammit Ken, I'm an Engineer not a Recipe Doctor. Even if I knew how to cook, what am I supposed to do ? Hand the commander a shopping list or something?

Ken: Damnit Woman, just eat the Haggis and enjoy it!



Ah, I'm being silly. Point is, sometimes you don't have a solution, but that doesn't invalidate your opinion and desires. I can't tell you how to make the romances better, but I don't need to know how to cook to tell a chef the meal's off either. Somethings are a matter of taste, and there may not be some magical "pleases everyone " solution. Still, I think people have tossed out lots of ideas that go way beyond "all better and some junk." If you don't have the desire or time to recall the specific ideas that have been stated, or to come up with some of your own, guess you just aren't that interested in the topic anyway, so why bother to type it into a nice bullet point form that's "engine ready"?



All the dev's need to know, ultimately, is that not everyone was thrilled with the LI's. How much beyond that they want to know, I have no idea. Guess it depends on how much room they have for changing stuff for ME3. If they really can't change much, then they don't need to know in detail what worked and didn't for any aspect of the game, whethr gameplay or story related.

[enormousmoonboots]

Xaijin wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Masticetobbacco wrote...

just chill, Bioware is one of the very few companies that created content for female gamers without appealing to stereotypes (i.e Final Fantasy attracted hordes of fat, ugly, antisocial girls because they involved impossibly beautiful men and dreamy romantic situations). Mass effect 1 was a prototype for female gamers, Mass effect 2 improved on that, and true it was not perfect. As ridicolous as some lines were, Mass effect involved realistic rommances that some women actually liked.

So you've only actually played two Final Fantasy games, right? The only FF games that heavily featured romance were 8 and 10; everything else is people projecting (there is like zero actual Cloud/Aeris or Tifa content in FF7, it's all implied or background).

*cough* VI. Celes Locke, like best romance ever: via fire and Giant purple Squid.

also, feeding troll; not reccomended, leaves troll smell on pets.

Like I said, heavily featured. 6's pairings are really implied, you could make a decent argument for just about anyone/anyone in that game. 4 had Cecil/Rosa, but again it kind of fades into the background since the characters were together before the game started (also, sprite game, so the 'impossibly beautiful men' bit is totally inapplicable). 9 had Zidane/Garnet, but again, it's not a serious plot-affecting thing like Squal/Rinoa or Tidus/Yuna. Ashe's husband dies in the opening cutscenes of 12, all she has after that is vague sexual tension. Similarly, Snow's fiancee (an NPC) turns into rock thirty minutes into 13. He whines about her far too much, but he's not the main character anyway and their romance isn't a big part of the game's plot.

It just drives me nuts when people crap on games they don't even play.

[Collider]

sagequeen wrote...
ha. no. i'm not. but i had on my posting in the forum hat. not my creative writing hat. please, edit away. 

Oh, if I seemed to be snobby saying that I didn't really meant to. I was just wondering because that part was technically sexist.

[Rocket Weazle]

Being a guy idk how the romances for femsheps compare on the sexyness front really, I mean garrus is just a turian, but Thane was created to be quite sexy wasn't he? I mean if you get past him being a frog man yet again idk.
However I found the Thane romance story really quite emotional, it's got everything, Garrus' too, I don't really know what Bioware were aiming for with the whole "prriiize" scene, but I think everyone agrees it failed.

Thane's scene is emotional though and I liked Garrus's, as for the whole lack of sex thing, I mean, Bioware didn't wanna have aliens with no clothes getting it on with shep's I guess, Tali is allowed because she wears a suit, but Bioware's stance seemed to basically be: partial nudity for humans. Everyone else...Not so much.

[Xaijin]

Never said it invalidated ANYONE's opinion.

Expecting to get it fixed in a satisfactory fashion is a completely different beast. I'm already essentially content with what I have, cause FS playthrough, I shot Jacob down full stop; never even came up. Will a RP make that better? Of course. Because my expectations are grounded with experience.

Modifié par Xaijin, 06 avril 2010 - 10:44 .

[sagefic]

@ collider: eeehhhhh. yeah. it reads that way, doesn't it.



all...this...male/female discussion is making me turn sexist! augh!

[Collider]

Here are some general suggestions on improving the romances, male or female.

1) Your romance interest asks how you are feeling or your views on the current situation. The options Shepard/PC has to say goes beyond "I'm fine," or "It's fine."

2) Your romance interest talks with you about being together.

3) Your romance interests asks about your thoughts in general.

4) (Possibly depending on the romance) Some light playful teasing or joking.

5) Fits of passion.

6) Hugging, holding hands, cuddling, resting, walking together, things like that.

7) Other characters acknowledge that you are in a romance with your love interest.

8) Subtlety and gender specific dialogue leading up to the romance.

9) The romance conclusion gives the impression that you stayed together. Some people like ambiguity, some people like definite endings, but some indication that it's going to last.

[Tlazolteotl]

I'm a guy. I don't play ME2 for the romances.

Ok, some of them need work, but it's the "I only have 2 lines 'cos we're not flirting" thing that annoys me most.

[Xaijin]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Masticetobbacco wrote...

just chill, Bioware is one of the very few companies that created content for female gamers without appealing to stereotypes (i.e Final Fantasy attracted hordes of fat, ugly, antisocial girls because they involved impossibly beautiful men and dreamy romantic situations). Mass effect 1 was a prototype for female gamers, Mass effect 2 improved on that, and true it was not perfect. As ridicolous as some lines were, Mass effect involved realistic rommances that some women actually liked.

So you've only actually played two Final Fantasy games, right? The only FF games that heavily featured romance were 8 and 10; everything else is people projecting (there is like zero actual Cloud/Aeris or Tifa content in FF7, it's all implied or background).

*cough* VI. Celes Locke, like best romance ever: via fire and Giant purple Squid.

also, feeding troll; not reccomended, leaves troll smell on pets.

Like I said, heavily featured. 6's pairings are really implied, you could make a decent argument for just about anyone/anyone in that game. 4 had Cecil/Rosa, but again it kind of fades into the background since the characters were together before the game started (also, sprite game, so the 'impossibly beautiful men' bit is totally inapplicable). 9 had Zidane/Garnet, but again, it's not a serious plot-affecting thing like Squal/Rinoa or Tidus/Yuna. Ashe's husband dies in the opening cutscenes of 12, all she has after that is vague sexual tension. Similarly, Snow's fiancee (an NPC) turns into rock thirty minutes into 13. He whines about her far too much, but he's not the main character anyway and their romance isn't a big part of the game's plot.

It just drives me nuts when people crap on games they don't even play.

Have to disagree.

A: Freaking OPERA.

B Island all alone... Celes basically carries the party when they hit absolute rock bottom, the only heroes left with fight in them are Mog and Relm... which tells you exactly how bad Kefka ****ed **** up. Without Celes looking for that stupid egotistical idiot that makes her smile, the game is literally over, which is probably why they put a potential game over there.

Modifié par Xaijin, 06 avril 2010 - 10:46 .

[Rocket Weazle]

sagequeen wrote...

@ collider: eeehhhhh. yeah. it reads that way, doesn't it.

all...this...male/female discussion is making me turn sexist! augh!

This whole thread is an intergalactic sexism mine field

[enormousmoonboots]

Xaijin wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Masticetobbacco wrote...

just chill, Bioware is one of the very few companies that created content for female gamers without appealing to stereotypes (i.e Final Fantasy attracted hordes of fat, ugly, antisocial girls because they involved impossibly beautiful men and dreamy romantic situations). Mass effect 1 was a prototype for female gamers, Mass effect 2 improved on that, and true it was not perfect. As ridicolous as some lines were, Mass effect involved realistic rommances that some women actually liked.

So you've only actually played two Final Fantasy games, right? The only FF games that heavily featured romance were 8 and 10; everything else is people projecting (there is like zero actual Cloud/Aeris or Tifa content in FF7, it's all implied or background).

*cough* VI. Celes Locke, like best romance ever: via fire and Giant purple Squid.

also, feeding troll; not reccomended, leaves troll smell on pets.

Like I said, heavily featured. 6's pairings are really implied, you could make a decent argument for just about anyone/anyone in that game. 4 had Cecil/Rosa, but again it kind of fades into the background since the characters were together before the game started (also, sprite game, so the 'impossibly beautiful men' bit is totally inapplicable). 9 had Zidane/Garnet, but again, it's not a serious plot-affecting thing like Squal/Rinoa or Tidus/Yuna. Ashe's husband dies in the opening cutscenes of 12, all she has after that is vague sexual tension. Similarly, Snow's fiancee (an NPC) turns into rock thirty minutes into 13. He whines about her far too much, but he's not the main character anyway and their romance isn't a big part of the game's plot.

It just drives me nuts when people crap on games they don't even play.

Have to disagree.

A: Freaking OPERA.

B Island all alone... Celes basically carries the party when they hit absolute rock bottom, the only heroes left with fight in them are Mog and Relm... which tells you exactly how bad Kefka ****ed **** up. Without Celes looking for that stupid egotistical idiot that makes her smile, the game is literally over, which is probably why they put a potential game over there.

Hey, she's a general, not some opera floozy!

I admit it's been far too long since I played FF6, but I don't get what you're talking about with the island? I know she tries to kill herself if you feed Cid bad fish (I actually never knew you could save him until I read someone talking about it online a few years ago) and thinks of him, but I thought you picked up Sabin first and had to do that goddamn Phoenix Cave for Locke? And Relm's in that artist's house, and Mog's in the Narshe cave.

And again, it's not heavily featured. She cares for him greatly, but it's not a significant plot point like Tidus/Yuna or Squall/Rinoa.

[Collider]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Collider wrote...

Here are some general suggestions on improving the romances, male or female.
1) Your romance interest asks how you are feeling or your views on the current situation. The options Shepard/PC has to say goes beyond "I'm fine," or "It's fine."
2) Your romance interest talks with you about being together.
3) Your romance interests asks about your thoughts in general.
4) (Possibly depending on the romance) Some light playful teasing or joking.
5) Fits of passion.
6) Hugging, holding hands, cuddling, resting, walking together, things like that.
7) Other characters acknowledge that you are in a romance with your love interest.
8) Subtlety and gender specific dialogue leading up to the romance.
9) The romance conclusion gives the impression that you stayed together. Some people like ambiguity, some people like definite endings, but some indication that it's going to last.

You forgot the flowers and the massage.

I don't really expect gifts from Mass Effect considering they never had anything like that. It'd be good if they did, like Dragon Age, including gifts to the PC, but I'd surprised to see it.

[Sad Dragon]

Collider wrote...

I don't really expect gifts from Mass Effect considering they never had anything like that. It'd be good if they did, like Dragon Age, including gifts to the PC, but I'd surprised to see it.

If so, i foresee another "I'm commander Shepard and this is my favorite store on the citadel". >_<;;

/TSD