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[Tinnic]

I have been thinking about this for sometime now and I just keep getting confused. A number of people mention that its been "a year" since your recruitment. But what does that mean exactly?

Take my first character, an elven mage. She was recruited from the tower then Duncan marched her straight down to Ostagar and within few day, maybe a week, the battle happened and then she slept in Flemeth's hut for about a week. Let's say it took her and Duncan a week to get down to Ostagar, a week before the decisive battle happened, a week to recover in Flemeth's hut and then it took a week  to get out of the wilds and make it to Lothering. So one month since the origin. Do they mean that after that point it took about 11 months to gather the allies and cure Arl Eamon and do everything? Which would totally make sense because when you are walking everywhere, travel time is not insignificant and it all adds up pretty quickly.

But Wynn starts talking about you having left the tower "about a year ago" shortly after you recruit her. Indeed, from what I understand (never played dwarf), if you are a dwarven commoner or noble - when you return to Ozrimmar, even if that's the first place you go to looking for allying, they say that "its been a year since you left".  Should I just except it as a short coming of the game format of telling stories and what they really mean is that the events of Origins happens over a year or did Ostagar last longer then I was lead to believe?

Also, how old do you think everyone is? Wynn I would guess is 60+. Sten 40+ at least. Oghran... I can't tell his age. But what about Zevran, Lelianna, Alistair (especially Alistair) and Morrigan? I would guess all four are under 30. But how much under? Are they also under 25? Under 20 even? Is Alistair like the youngest one of the lot? (assuming you aren't role-playing a Warden who has barely come of age, which actually might be the case for the mages given how their origin is setup)

[Cypher0020]

Someone did try to find the tool set for the chars in my dwarf run thread



They say that Behlen is 21, Rica is 22, Trian is 25.....so I'd put the PC of the dwarf orgin at least..... between the ages of 19-20 at the start of origins



your the middle kid the dwarf noble... is 23 at best... and Rica's baby sibling in the commoner one.... so I'd say... 19/20



I'd put Alistair at 24...... Sten 45 or so... Oghren..... 40.... Leliana.... 21-22...?? Zevran....Morrigan... no idea LOL

[mellifera]

Well, apparently the toolset ages were a general guideline and not set in stone, so to speak. They weren't the final product in a few cases. For example, if I recall correctly Alistair is listed to be in his 30s but he is definitely not that old. I think they were planning on making Alistair an older, more experienced character at some point but changed him. Something like that, I'm not 100%. I do think Alistair is the youngest/one of the youngest though, probably very, very early 20s.

[errant_knight]

Tinnic wrote...

I have been thinking about this for sometime now and I just keep getting confused. A number of people mention that its been "a year" since your recruitment. But what does that mean exactly?

Take my first character, an elven mage. She was recruited from the tower then Duncan marched her straight down to Ostagar and within few day, maybe a week, the battle happened and then she slept in Flemeth's hut for about a week. Let's say it took her and Duncan a week to get down to Ostagar, a week before the decisive battle happened, a week to recover in Flemeth's hut and then it took a week  to get out of the wilds and make it to Lothering. So one month since the origin. Do they mean that after that point it took about 11 months to gather the allies and cure Arl Eamon and do everything? Which would totally make sense because when you are walking everywhere, travel time is not insignificant and it all adds up pretty quickly.

But Wynn starts talking about you having left the tower "about a year ago" shortly after you recruit her. Indeed, from what I understand (never played dwarf), if you are a dwarven commoner or noble - when you return to Ozrimmar, even if that's the first place you go to looking for allying, they say that "its been a year since you left".  Should I just except it as a short coming of the game format of telling stories and what they really mean is that the events of Origins happens over a year or did Ostagar last longer then I was lead to believe?

Also, how old do you think everyone is? Wynn I would guess is 60+. Sten 40+ at least. Oghran... I can't tell his age. But what about Zevran, Lelianna, Alistair (especially Alistair) and Morrigan? I would guess all four are under 30. But how much under? Are they also under 25? Under 20 even? Is Alistair like the youngest one of the lot? (assuming you aren't role-playing a Warden who has barely come of age, which actually might be the case for the mages given how their origin is setup)

There's a lot of disagreement about the ages, but I think you're in the right ballpark. I see the PC (especially the Cousland PC) as the youngest myself. I've decided that my PC is about 21, and that Alistair is 27 or 28 (young enough to not be a lyrium addict yet, but old enough that it's unusual and worth comment, that he's still a virgin. I have a harder time placing Morrigan, so I just put her in the middle--24 or 25.

A year seems a little too short for all that travel and questings. I always figured that the story from beginning to end took about a year and a half.

Modifié par errant_knight, 05 avril 2010 - 05:06 .

[LadyDamodred]

I put my HNF at 18 at the start of her origin. I belong firmly in the 'Alistair is Fiona's kid' camp, so that makes him 19/20-ish.



I figure the events in the story take a bit over a year.

[Raiil]

I figured all origin story characters are somewhere between 18-25, with the mages being the youngest and the Dalish elf being the oldest. I peg the mages as the youngest because they're the only ones who live in a set-up where sending someone on the younger scale of things would be acceptable, since they spend their lives in an intense training session. I figure the Couslands at 19-21; old enough to run the castle, young enough that it's not too odd that they're not married yet.



As for ages, I saw Alistair as being very early twenties, Leliana later twenties. Wynne entering her fifties, Zevran late twenties, Morrigan as being very deliberately ambigious but probably mid twenties, Oghren as coming up on his forties, Sten in his mid thirties. That's entirely guesswork, though.



As for the traveling, I sandwich it anywhere between a year to two years. That gives you flexibility if you're playing a PC who does a lot of side quests and goes back and forth between different points a lot.

[CalJones]

I think there's supposed to be a passage of time between the origin and Ostagar, though in some cases it doesn't seem to be very long. I'd say it's longest for the dwarven origins and shortest for the HN and mage.

I can only conclude, also, that you spend a fair amount of time in the Wilds, recovering from your injuries and then travelling to Lothering. Nonetheless, time does seem somewhat elastic.

It does seem a bit daft to me but consider what has happened: in the time it takes for a mage to get to Lothering, Jowan has been on the run, captured and imprisoned, sent to Redcliffe to infiltrate the castle and has successfully poisoned the arl.

By the time a dwarf noble gets to Denerim, Gorim has set up shop and got married - and by the time you return to Orzammar (which you can legitimately do first), a male DN has a son.

On the other hand, as a human noble, you discover that your brother was lost in the wilds of the entire game, however long that took...

As for ages, I've read somewhere that Alistair is supposed to be 24. The others are open to interpretation. Wynne talks as though she's 80 but looks like a well preserved 60. Morrigan looks like a flawless 22 but talks as though she's a cynical 28-30. Leliana, I'd guess, is 28-30 (she says she looks young for her age. Zevran, going by the slightly furrowed brow, I'm guessing is at least 30. Sten I'd agree is over 40 - his facial ageing is consistant with that, and he looks older than the other Qunari you see. Oghran - 30s, maybe.

As for other characters, I'm using the books as reference. Loghain is 18-19 when Stolen Throne starts and around 21-22 at the battle of River Dane. Now I'm unclear whether the Dragon Age actually started then (as it was then that they spot the dragon and also when it mentions the new age will be called the Dragon Age) or after Meghren has been killed which is another three years later. If it's the former, he's 51-52 in DA, but if it's the latter, he's around 55 during DA (though he looks younger).

Duncan's 18-21 during The Calling, which is 19 years ago, so he's at most 40, though he seems older (this is probably down to the fact his voice actor is in his 70s). Anorah is maybe a year older than Cailan, who in turn is a bit older than Alistair. I'd say 25-26 for Cailan and 27 for Anorah (though again she looks younger - however, the letter in RtO suggest she is approaching her thirties so she must be in the second half of her twenties in DA).

Arl Howe and Bryce Cousland fought against the Orlesians so should be in their 50s at least.

Eamon was 15 and Teagan 8 in Stolen Throne which would make then 45 and 38 respectively (though Eamon looks significantly older than Loghain. Grey hair and a beard will do that, though).

Now, as for the PC, I think this is largely up to the player. I'd say the noble origin has more potential to be a bit older as your parents appear to be 50-somethings, but really, it's unrealistic for any of them to be over 30 (much as I'd like them to be as I am tired of playing youngsters, grrr) and in some cases it's more logical to have a character 18-22. Up to you though, as I said.

[Cypher0020]

I'm gonna wing it with the toolset ages... at best, I'd put a DN at 25-26 years of age... I mean old enough to take a first military post, but still lots of years to grow as a warrior



A year and a half or so seems accurate for time. I mean.. unlike Mass Effect or Kotor there's no lightspeed traveling... its on foot the entire time....

[CalJones]

LadyDamodred wrote...

I put my HNF at 18 at the start of her origin. I belong firmly in the 'Alistair is Fiona's kid' camp, so that makes him 19/20-ish.

I figure the events in the story take a bit over a year.

I don't believe Alistair is Fiona's. Loghain says Maric did not acknowledge Alistair because it would ruin Rowan (and Rowan was two years dead by the start of the Calling). He also looks quite a bit older than 19.
Fiona's child is probably still out there, ready to solve any problems caused by Alistair firing blanks and/or Anora not wanting children.

[Tinnic]

I was thinking Calain might be 29 and Anora 30. Calain just remained a child longer, I guess. Which is understandable given his father ruled until just five years ago and then Anora did the day to day things. Althought Calain seemed to have done some of the foreign policy things if his corrospondense with Empress Celene is any indication.

I would be surprised if Alistair is any more then 20 and that's at most! Just because he was in chantry care since age 10. Now I understand Templar training might be gruelling and take time but I still find it believe that he would not have taken his vows and started taking lyrium (I believe he said something about not taking it since he hadn't taken his vows or something like that) if he was much older then 18. Remembering that Duncan "rescued" him from the chantry just six months before you meet him.

Taking into account that people matured quicker in the olden days, indeed most of us enjoy longer childhoods these days because of huge shifts that have occurred in society over the last 100 or so years, I won't be surprised if Alistair was 19 when you first met him and no older then 20 when he became king.

I do agree that it seems that the dwarven Warden's are the oldest/most experienced. While the mages are the youngest. I don't think the Dalish Warden's are all that much older - 19/20 at most. City elf... hard to say. They were getting married but I imagine people get married fairly young in the Alienage, so 19/20 as well. Cousland... 20/21. As you guys said, young but not too young.

*sigh* Wouldn't it be nice if a Bioware Rep decided to comment on this thread and explain a few things!

Also, I am on the Fiona is Alistair's mother camp. Simply because I don't see Maric having a fling with a serving girl while Rowan was alive and it is made clear in "The Calling" that he wasn't having flings with anyone until he met Fiona. With whom he did fall in love. Let's face it, Maric wasn't the type to go around sowing his wild oats so to speak. Everybody he had ever been with, he loved one way or another. In fact, Rowan actually says in the Stolen Throne that Maric didn't chase skirt. Seriously, we are to believe his man fathered a son with a serving girl, while married to a woman he loved and respected and who had given up the love of her life to be with him and support him so that they could rebuild Feralden together, while he himself was haunted by what happened to his one true love? ... Yeah no!

Modifié par Tinnic, 05 avril 2010 - 06:13 .

[Cypher0020]

I'm gonna uncannonally say the dwarf noble is 23 years old. It'd fit if King Endrin and his wife had each child two years apart...



Uhhh.... who IS the mom for the noble origin anyways?

[CalJones]

Eleanor Cousland in the human origin. I'm assuming the dwarf mother is dead.

Modifié par CalJones, 05 avril 2010 - 10:51 .

[LadyDamodred]

CalJones wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

I put my HNF at 18 at the start of her origin. I belong firmly in the 'Alistair is Fiona's kid' camp, so that makes him 19/20-ish.

I figure the events in the story take a bit over a year.

I don't believe Alistair is Fiona's. Loghain says Maric did not acknowledge Alistair because it would ruin Rowan (and Rowan was two years dead by the start of the Calling). He also looks quite a bit older than 19.
Fiona's child is probably still out there, ready to solve any problems caused by Alistair firing blanks and/or Anora not wanting children.

I put that down as the cover story that Loghain sticks to out of respect for Maric.  I think it is highly unlikely there's yet another bastard child out there, especially given how Maric is in the books.  I also think it unlikely that Alistair could have gotten very much older than 20 without taking his vows, or that Duncan would mysteriously appear to conscript Maric's other bastard child when he was already looking out for Maric and Finoa's.  Also, the hammering the point home to Alistair about not being king like Fiona wanted.  I could be wrong, but there you go.

[Lintanis]

Sounds like there should be a expansion "Dragon Age The Teen years" lol

[Tinnic]

LadyDamodred wrote...

CalJones wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

I put my HNF at 18 at the start of her origin. I belong firmly in the 'Alistair is Fiona's kid' camp, so that makes him 19/20-ish.

I figure the events in the story take a bit over a year.

I don't believe Alistair is Fiona's. Loghain says Maric did not acknowledge Alistair because it would ruin Rowan (and Rowan was two years dead by the start of the Calling). He also looks quite a bit older than 19.
Fiona's child is probably still out there, ready to solve any problems caused by Alistair firing blanks and/or Anora not wanting children.

I put that down as the cover story that Loghain sticks to out of respect for Maric.  I think it is highly unlikely there's yet another bastard child out there, especially given how Maric is in the books.  I also think it unlikely that Alistair could have gotten very much older than 20 without taking his vows, or that Duncan would mysteriously appear to conscript Maric's other bastard child when he was already looking out for Maric and Finoa's.  Also, the hammering the point home to Alistair about not being king like Fiona wanted.  I could be wrong, but there you go.

Not to mention that Alistair being Fiona's son would explain why Duncan would put him through the joining in the first place! I mean, there is no certainty with the joining is there? But given that his mother had survived would give Duncan some indication that perhaps Alistair had a higher chance of surviving the joining then other people.

Also, there is the question whether Loghain himself ever knew who Alistair's real mother was. Remembering that in the book Fiona turned up when Loghain was away from Denerim and would be away for about a month. Surely Maric could have arranged it that even Loghain was non-the-wiser about the identity of Alistair's mother. Don't forget, Fiona was Orlesian. We all know how Loghain feels about Orlesians! Who thinks Loghain would have snapped baby Alistair's neck because of his Orlesian blood? 

[Danielsun2]

aaah i love the relationship between ferelden and orlais much like two certain nations that i know of with the same accents

[Janni-in-VA]

Well, if we take actual, historical monastic life as the pattern for Templars, Alistair could very well be in his mid-twenties. Monks and nuns take their final vows when the head of their house believes they are ready, not on a particular schedule. It wouldn't be unreasonable to believe that some people need to train a bit longer than others or, as in Alistair's case, aren't really ready to make the commitment (which argument would also give you some leeway in a mage origin story.) I put Morrigan in her mid-twenties, also. Lelianna would be in her late twenties and Zevran in his mid-thirties, I think. Despite her gray hair, Wynne's face is still quite youthful, so I'd put her in her early fifties. It's hard to say how Qunari and dwarves age, but I'd put both Oghren and Sten in their early forties.

Your PC, depending on origin, could legitimately be anywhere from about 18-30. We do know that the Dalish lifespan is slowly increasing as they isolate themselves more from humans, so your Dalish PC could be older than s/he appears. Given that the elder Couslands seem to be in their mid- to late fifties, your PC could quite reasonably be as old as 30-33. If Eleanor was, say, 21 when your brother was born and 23 when you were born and her age is now, say, 55, then that would put you at 32. We know that mages begin their studies as children, but I'm sure the ages at which they are brought to the Tower vary considerably. A child in a remote village might not be discovered until age 12 or 13 while one in a city with a strong Chantry presence might be found as early as 5 or 6. We do know that a mage is not put through the Harrowing until they are deemed ready, provided they have the potential to make a better mage than a Tranquil, and talent doesn't necessarily affect how quickly one learns. So once again, we really have more leeway than one might think in determining a PC's age.

As for the game timeline, I find it quite reasonable to think that it would take a minimum of 18 months to as long as 3 years to complete. (The latter figure takes into account Wynne's two-year comment.)

Now, I haven't read either of the novels. However, I have seen various discussions on the forums that point out how Alistair's birth doesn't fit into the timeline such that he could be Fiona's son. What I've heard of Maric indicates that he's an honorable man not given to casual flings, so I posit that something special happened between he and Alistair's mother. It could have been any number of things; humans are complex creatures, and anyone can act out of character given the right circumstances. Sometimes, even a king needs to lay aside his burdens, and it only take once to conceive a child.

[nos_astra]

Janni-in-VA wrote...
Well, if we take actual, historical monastic life as the pattern for Templars, Alistair could very well be in his mid-twenties. Monks and nuns take their final vows when the head of their house believes they are ready, not on a particular schedule.

But the Templars are not an order of monks and nuns who dedicate their lives to praying to the Maker, they are an army. Do you actually believe they would allow a young man to waste a great part of his best years making up his mind? They force Templars into addiction, the training is supposed to be a secret, I'm sure when the training is over they have to take their vows. Someone like Alistair, who isn't especially devoted and the bastard son of a king, would be put under control as soon as possible.

Modifié par klarabella, 05 avril 2010 - 07:44 .

[LadyDamodred]

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree the Chantry wants the most useful of a templar's years before they burn themselves out on lyrium.



Also, the timeline, as best as I can currently figure out, cannot work either. The years don't add up quite right. When dealing with that, it is not hard to make Alistair's birth fit in. Also, it still seems to be to be an awful lot of weird coincidences if Alistair isn't Fiona's kid. I know, I know, we may never know, but it seems far more like to be the case than there being yet another bastard, imo.

[Brockololly]

FWIW, if I recall way back in the old forums Gaider mentioned that Morrigan is supposed to be late twenties to maybe 30 years old...

[Tinnic]

Brockololly wrote...

FWIW, if I recall way back in the old forums Gaider mentioned that Morrigan is supposed to be late twenties to maybe 30 years old...

This actually makes me relieved! After reading "The Stolen Throne" I kept wondering "what DID Flemeth make Maric promise/do? Please don't let Alistair and Morrigan be related. Please don't let Alistair and Morrigan be related." But if she's 20-30 then the chances of Flemeth doing something with Maric to get Morrigan is low and that makes me happy. Although it does make me wonder who Morrigan's father is... I call Templar sent to hunt Flemeth!