41 réponses à ce sujet

[Andari_Surana]

Daewan wrote...
Sure, Mana Clash is overpowered against enemy mages if you have really high magic

Area of effect: 10 m sphere. Spirit Damage: (Mana Lost) * (0.5 + (Spellpower * 0.01)).

Can insta-kill many mages with no spellpower, because mages tend to have more mana > life.
Can also be stacked with anything that increases spirit damage (both hexes, + spirt gear)
And regardless of damage inflicted, turns caster into basically a manaless-rabbit.

[k9medusa]

Andari_Surana wrote...
~Snip~
And regardless of damage inflicted, turns caster into basically a manaless-rabbit.

Shhh!!! .. We are huntin'  wabbits!     

//:P

[GrdianKnight]

I will concede it can take the fun out of what are supposed to be some very intense fights, and I find myself using it less then when I first discovered it (especially in Awakenings). But look at it as two types of warfare. Without it, you fight a battle of attrition, with it, shock and awe. Perhaps making it function more like Final Blow would tone it down enough for the naysayers. Add that in with the crap to get to it, should be enough of a cost for it.

[HypobaricPiano]

Mana Clash should be a Templar talent, not a mage's spell. At any rate, it is unfair. That is why I will stick to my Sleep + Horror/Storm of the Century.

[GrdianKnight]

Hmm a Templar talent does make more sense, and might even make me consider the Templar class useful. Nice point. Unfair? So is Arrow of Slaying I take it? So many different abilities could be perceived as unfair.

[HypobaricPiano]

GrdianKnight wrote...

Hmm a Templar talent does make more sense, and might even make me consider the Templar class useful. Nice point. Unfair? So is Arrow of Slaying I take it? So many different abilities could be perceived as unfair.

Arrow of Slaying requires a lot of Stamina, and there are penalties afterwards. The most I've ever hit, on my level 33 Archer, was about 800. Mana Clash can hit about 1200-1500.

[ToJKa1]

HypobaricPiano wrote...

GrdianKnight wrote...

Hmm a Templar talent does make more sense, and might even make me consider the Templar class useful. Nice point. Unfair? So is Arrow of Slaying I take it? So many different abilities could be perceived as unfair.

Arrow of Slaying requires a lot of Stamina, and there are penalties afterwards. The most I've ever hit, on my level 33 Archer, was about 800. Mana Clash can hit about 1200-1500.

Also if the detailed tooltips mod is correct, Arrow of Slaying does a lot less damage against yellow and red enemies, Mana Clash often kills them too outright. I prefer Glyph of Neutralization as anti-mage magic, the rest of glyphs are useful too.

[taine]

Arrow of Slaying is decent, but nowhere even close to as good as Mana Clash.



AoE vs. Single Target.

Instant Cast vs. Long delayed attack

Damage Scales up against powerful enemies vs. Damage decreases against powerful enemies



The only advantage Arrow of Slaying has is that is can't be resisted.

[GrdianKnight]

I wasn't comparing AoS to Mana Clash, I know it's not as powerful. I was throwing it out there as an example of unfair. Spot on with all your points though.

[Sidney]

taine wrote...
AoE vs. Single Target.

AoE never really mattered much as I can only recall one time I got more than one mage - at least in DAA.

[sarx8172]

Mana Clash is fun to use because it inspires lulz, and makes me have more fun while playing the game. I don't appreciate being knocked down by fireballs all the damn time, so mages get to die

[taine]

Sidney wrote...

taine wrote...
AoE vs. Single Target.

AoE never really mattered much as I can only recall one time I got more than one mage - at least in DAA.

I can think of 5 or 6 off the top of my head from DA:O. Also, it can be used on anything with mana (wraiths, shades, demons, etc.) not just Mages.

[GEWill]

I've used Mana Clash once and wasn't too impressed with it. It's great for Gaxkang, but then again there are a lot of ways to beat him. Every since that first time I took Morrigan down that line of spells I haven't done it again.

[Gill Kaiser]

You guys are saying that the three spells before Mana Clash aren't good, but I disagree. Drain Mana is actually a pretty good alternative to using pots, and you lose nothing by casting it because it has no cost. Spell Might is pretty good for Blood Mages because using Blood Magic circumvents most of the negatives of the spell besides the extra fatigue. Also, Spell Might is useful for its two combos (Advanced Reanimation and Storm of the Century). The only truly crap spell is Mana Cleanse.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 06 avril 2010 - 08:53 .

[Wozearly]

Mana Drain is okay, although the mana gained from it is relatively pitiful unless you're using it in combination with the Vulnerability Hex, in which case its semi-pitiful.

Mana Cleanse is a nice spell to use on mages to prevent them chain massacring your party - at least until you get the epic Mana Clash, at which point it becomes purposeless.

Spell Might is useful in some fights depending on how your mage is specced. Its not much good if you use a lot of sustainables as it'll drain your mana too fast and hurt your regen too much, and its a bit ropey versus bosses because it has something of a tendency to attract unwanted attention onto one of your squishiest party characters and requires a lot of potion drinking...but it gives a nice boost in other circumstances if you have a high starting spellpower and reasonable willpower (and what mage doesn't?).

If I'm in a primarily ranged party and one of the mages can afford to be a selfish damage-dealer then its a nice way of taking down enemies swiftly and it gets used from time to time. Plus, its two spell combinations are very nice things to be able to pull from out of a hat - again, especially if you're a primarily ranged party that needs additional melee support from Animate Dead and/or can afford to create an AoE blast of death with Storm of the Century as most of your team are beyond its range.

I think its a really great branch to pursue in the spirit tree (or, indeed, any tree) but that may be because of my playstyle. If Mana Clash wasn't at the end of it, though, I'd probably be more inclined to throw points elsewhere as a priority though.

Personally, if I wanted to rebalance it, I'd cut its damage by about 30% - 60% to stop it one-shotting and make the AoE effect more similar to Mana Cleanse (although less powerful, so as not to make Cleanse redundant) rather than give the ability to AoE one-shot entire groups of mages or demons.

And I'd make it cost about double the mana to cast, and slap a 3-5 second buildup timer on it, so it would ideally require cc'ing the offending mage first and/or gathering other mobs away from the caster, so Mana Clash becomes a highly useful secondary attack against mages rather than the one-size-fits-all opening move whenever you see a darkspawn emissary.

Modifié par Wozearly, 06 avril 2010 - 12:31 .

[Lancer347]

Mana Clash is ridiculously good. If you're really a min/max'er playing a mage you'll realize how unimportant willpower is as a stat when you can make lyrium pots for so cheap, so you dump everything into magic for max spell power. And with all that spell power, mana clash will annihilate most spell casters (and demons!).

At the end of DA:A, my mage's max hit was like 2200+, and it was definitely from mana clash. I never had any other ability or party member hit over 1000.

[Wozearly]

To be honest, lancer, you really don't need to overstack magic to make mana clash lethal.



From recollection, I was one-shotting with it from around 30-35 magic (plus equipment and spell buffs)...which is kinda expected from any mage character, let alone a min/max one.