166 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

UpiH wrote...

For the people in the DAS, magic is a method, based on research, trial and error even, has lots of experimentation and contradicting theories...

No, it's not. Magic is rather the subject of research and experiments. Difference.
An accurate term would have been "magology" (study of magic). Which is what Dagna is going to do probably.

[Herr Uhl]

UpiH wrote...

For the people in the DAS, magic is a method, based on research, trial and error even, has lots of experimentation and contradicting theories...

Yes, but does that make the legend of the ashes any more real?

Magic can be science, just like chemistry or physics.

[Wozza78]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

UpiH wrote...

Basilcally, I'm saying, what we call "science", could be called "magic" from a different viewpoint. It all comes to beliefs. People believe, what they want to believe...

Science is a method. Based upon research, experimentation and falsifiying theories.
That's not magic.
Rather magic can become a focus of scientific experiments and research.

People can believe whatever they want, it doesn't change the objective definition of a word.
Magic cannot be seen as replacing science. It can be seen as a possible subject of scientific study.

I disagree. In a world with magic, ther is no need for mankind to go the route of scientific development because magic already does what science would eventually do. Does that not mean that science as we know it would never actually develop? I believe so. The key here is necessity, and science is not necessary in a world where magic exists.

[mousestalker]

Engineering is about practical results. Science is the methodical discovery of knowledge. Some of the posters above may be confusing the two. People have long pursued scientific discovery with no hope of anything practical resulting from their endeavours.

[Sabriana]

Andrastian mages are usually imprisoned by the Chantries of their countries

Qunari cut their mages tongues out and put them on real leashes

Dwarfs cannot cast magical spells, yet, look at Orzammar, and the gigantic kingdom they once had.

[Wozza78]

Wozza78 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

UpiH wrote...

Basilcally, I'm saying, what we call "science", could be called "magic" from a different viewpoint. It all comes to beliefs. People believe, what they want to believe...

Science is a method. Based upon research, experimentation and falsifiying theories.
That's not magic.
Rather magic can become a focus of scientific experiments and research.

People can believe whatever they want, it doesn't change the objective definition of a word.
Magic cannot be seen as replacing science. It can be seen as a possible subject of scientific study.

I disagree. In a world with magic, ther is no need for mankind to go the route of scientific development because magic already does what science would eventually do. Does that not mean that science as we know it would never actually develop? I believe so. The key here is necessity, and science is not necessary in a world where magic exists.

Sorry for quoting myself but...I just spotted the double negative in my last post. DOH!!!

[Apophis2412]

Wozza78 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

UpiH wrote...

Basilcally, I'm saying, what we call "science", could be called "magic" from a different viewpoint. It all comes to beliefs. People believe, what they want to believe...

Science is a method. Based upon research, experimentation and falsifiying theories.
That's not magic.
Rather magic can become a focus of scientific experiments and research.

People can believe whatever they want, it doesn't change the objective definition of a word.
Magic cannot be seen as replacing science. It can be seen as a possible subject of scientific study.

I disagree. In a world with magic, ther is no need for mankind to go the route of scientific development because magic already does what science would eventually do. Does that not mean that science as we know it would never actually develop? I believe so. The key here is necessity, and science is not necessary in a world where magic exists.

If science is not necessary than why isn´t Thedas stil living in the stone age?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Wozza78 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

UpiH wrote...

Basilcally, I'm saying, what we call "science", could be called "magic" from a different viewpoint. It all comes to beliefs. People believe, what they want to believe...

Science is a method. Based upon research, experimentation and falsifiying theories.
That's not magic.
Rather magic can become a focus of scientific experiments and research.

People can believe whatever they want, it doesn't change the objective definition of a word.
Magic cannot be seen as replacing science. It can be seen as a possible subject of scientific study.

I disagree. In a world with magic, ther is no need for mankind to go the route of scientific development because magic already does what science would eventually do. Does that not mean that science as we know it would never actually develop? I believe so. The key here is necessity, and science is not necessary in a world where magic exists.

Completely besides the point.

I was arguing against the assumption that magic replaces science as a method. Whether it can achieve the same results is another thing (it doesn't, the Qunari are superior to others without using magic. Same with dwarves).

[Apophis2412]

Humans, by nature, are a curious species. That is why for centuries we have been seeking answers for questions that nobody asked.



In a world filled with magic, this curiosity would not simply go away. Instead we would be curious about the laws of magic.

[Wozza78]

Is evolution science? Is it science if a cave man realises there is more shelter in a cave than under a bush?

[Apophis2412]

Wozza78 wrote...

Is evolution science? Is it science if a cave man realises there is more shelter in a cave than under a bush?

Science is the continuing effort to increase the human knowledge and understanding through observation.

So yes, your cave man is a scientist.

[UpiH]

Apophis2412 wrote...

If science is not necessary than why isn´t Thedas stil living in the stone age?

The makers of Thedas have made it so?

Just toying with the thought: of course you cannot draw the original intentions from the end results, so what may appear "magical" to some, might as well be a product of long research. Naming a thing "magical" doesn't just make it so, or vice versa naming a thing scientific.

[Herr Uhl]

UpiH wrote...

The makers of Thedas have made it so?

Just toying with the thought: of course you cannot draw the original intentions from the end results, so what may appear "magical" to some, might as well be a product of long research. Naming a thing "magical" doesn't just make it so, or vice versa naming a thing scientific.

What? What are you trying to say, that we should go searching for the holy grail since they have done it since the middle ages?

If magic exists or not is irrelevant. So what is your point?

[UpiH]

Where did I say the Ashes are an equivalent of the Holy Grail? It's just your opinion and you are of course entitled to it.

[Herr Uhl]

UpiH wrote...

Where did I say the Ashes are an equivalent of the Holy Grail? It's just your opinion and you are of course entitled to it.

What very scientific/magical/divine reasons do you have to believe that the ashes exist more than a scholar researching the subject and a legend?

I fail to see how magic is relevant, it's not like you find it through divination.

[Sabriana]

I have the sudden urge to watch Monty Python.



The ashes are a myth, and aside from that, the PC hears all over the place about knights who suddenly disappear. There is also the dead Templar, a buddy of Ser Donall. The ashes are called a 'myth' even in game, and the Chantry calls Geniviti's research blasphemy (or was that heresy?).

Even Teagan calls it a folly at some point prior to the resolving of the demon-Connor issue, although he changes his mind later on.

The PC should at some point be able to convince Teagan to take Eamon's place, call the Landsmeet, put Alistair forward as king, end the civil war, and hope and pray that the remaining forces/armies combined with the PC's armies will be enough to stop the damn archdemon.

[UpiH]

There's a plethora of codices on the subject (in the Mage origin at least). It is believed Andraste existed in the DAS. Ok, grasping at the sttraws, but the knights are already on the move, so it isn't as preposterious an idea as it seems on the surface.



What reasons did Galilei have to believe that the earth goes around the sun? Or why did the ancient Grecians claim the earth was round? It's a geoid, I'm told.



Do you accept curiousity as a motive?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Sabriana wrote...
The PC should at some point be able to convince Teagan to take Eamon's place, call the Landsmeet, put Alistair forward as king (or put himself as Prince Consort and Anora as Queen), end the civil war, and hope and pray that the remaining forces/armies combined with the PC's armies will be enough to stop the damn archdemon.

Much better

[Herr Uhl]

UpiH wrote...

Do you accept curiousity as a motive?

My characters that are fighting a very real threat killing more people every day would probably not buy that. They wouldn't sail around the world to find out about that either (though I think that the Qunari know the world to be round at least).

[UpiH]

The Darkspoon, yes. What about the Archdemon? Loghain said, there were no sightings of dragons in the Korcari Wilds at least? Dragons? Aren't they just a myth?

[Herr Uhl]

UpiH wrote...

The Darkspoon, yes. What about the Archdemon? Loghain said, there were no sightings of dragons in the Korcari Wilds at least? Dragons? Aren't they just a myth?

The age is called dragon age, so I guess they are accepted as existing, and archdemons are an established fact.

The question if it was a blight or not got kind of answered when it started.

[KnightofPhoenix]

UpiH wrote...

The Darkspoon, yes. What about the Archdemon? Loghain said, there were no sightings of dragons in the Korcari Wilds at least? Dragons? Aren't they just a myth?

No, they aren't. The age is called the dragon age because of the sighting of dragons.
In addition to the history of Neverran dragon hunters.
And the presence of a dragon graveyard in amarathine.

And archdemon are an established fact. We have 4 examples of archdemons before.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 05 avril 2010 - 07:04 .