166 réponses à ce sujet

[mousestalker]

UpiH wrote...

The Darkspoon, yes. What about the Archdemon? Loghain said, there were no sightings of dragons in the Korcari Wilds at least? Dragons? Aren't they just a myth?

The Darkspoon? Are we fighting evil cutlery now?

[mousestalker]

Maviarab wrote...

LMAO Mouse.....

You mean...you havent heard?

Eek! I knew I should have been washing dishes more often and not letting them pile up in the sink!

[UpiH]

I do not believe in Aquarians either albeit some call our age the Aquarius.

[Herr Uhl]

mousestalker wrote...

Eek! I knew I should have been washing dishes more often and not letting them pile up in the sink!

Now we know where the taint originates from.

[Herr Uhl]

UpiH wrote...

I do not believe in Aquarians either albeit some call our age the Aquarius.

They named the age Dragon age because a dragon rampaged in Orlais just before the naming of the age.

They were thought to be extinct, not mythical.

[UpiH]

mousestalker wrote...

UpiH wrote...

The Darkspoon, yes. What about the Archdemon? Loghain said, there were no sightings of dragons in the Korcari Wilds at least? Dragons? Aren't they just a myth?

The Darkspoon? Are we fighting evil cutlery now?

Absolutely. They tend to escape from the pool so often.

[UpiH]

Ummm, can't tell whether Andraste was mythical either, but it's your game, not mine. I yield.

[Herr Uhl]

UpiH wrote...

Ummm, can't tell whether Andraste was mythical either, but it's your game, not mine. I yield.

She existed, so that means that her (milennia old I might add) ashes are kept in Ferelden and have healing powers?

[UpiH]

Some believe, they do, some do not. What's the big deal?

[KnightofPhoenix]

UpiH wrote...

Some believe, they do, some do not. What's the big deal?

The big deal is that we are forced to go along with it., even if our PC has 0 reason to believe in the myth.

[UpiH]

There are plotholes size of an elephant everywhere in the game, if you so desire, that one being just one of them. I don't mind.

[epeeist]

I'm like the OP and others who have difficulty playing evil. But so what? It's a game I paid for, if I prefer to play "good" or only slightly "bad" (not "eeevil") because I prefer that, why should that bother me? Indeed, for me roleplaying "good" can help make a game (slightly) more difficult, e.g. getting less money because one doesn't use intimidate or persuade poor people to give you more money. Also, if one can think of a good reason (or a "good" reason...) to do or not do something, then it's not evil. E.g. if one is roleplaying a character with an understandable distrust of all mages (given what the chantry teaches), then go ahead and kill the circle because from a roleplaying perspective, it's not evil for that character but what he/she thinks is "good".



The only times I've (happily?) roleplayed evil was e.g. in NWN or NWN2 when I saw it as a challenge to go from evil to "redeemed" good, so even there my character was only evil for a while...



Of course, to get all the achievements, I did play "evil" for a little bit, then reverted to a prior save.

[UpiH]

*Off topic* In some VO:s when the protagonist senses the darkspawn, it sounds like "darkspoon". A (bad) joke, obviously. I took it, Mouse undertstood that as well unlike some others. But let's not resort to ad hominem attacks.

[CalJones]

There is no spoon.



I have no problem playing pragmatic or ruthless characters. If there is a legitimate justification for something, I can do it. What I can't do is be a jerk. ME worked for me - I was able to have fun as paragon and renegade Shepard. KotOR, though, gave me trouble - I could only play lightside. Heck, I played through NWN2 several times but always took the city watch side, never the thief side.

Dragon Age is more interesting because you can justify most of the choices as being for the greater good, should you so wish. The only things that gave me real difficulty were killing Connor (I have absolutely no problem killing Isolde, mind you), tainting the ashes, not ending the werewolf curse, and killing Loghain (did it in my first game but that cut-scene was just horrendous I couldn't do it again. I've had to endure the Alistair tantrum in every subsequent game, grr. All 10 of them).

I generally try to get the best outcomes, even on my more pragmatic characters, and also to be nice to my companions where possible. But I have experimented. I've never left Sten to die but I've killed Wynne, sided with the Templars and the Werewolves (just the one time, mind, to see what happened) and had Alistair executed (there's only so many times you can listen to that tantrum before you start to hate him just a little bit). Usually, though, I play a generally nice, merciful sort of person.

[UpiH]

Maybe it's just that thing, the game to some extent compels you to do some revolting deeds and you have to bear responsibility for them. Mildly, but anyway. The other end of the stick is that at the end of the day your actions mean little and you've just spent some hours killing stuff.



I for one am not happy about the fact that you must be a jerk in order to get the best bow in the game, for instance. I can live with that, without the bow, of course. I take it, taking the longer route isn't always the most rewarding one. Anyway, the game, after a couple of playthroughs becomes so easy, you can beat it equipped with a spoon, hehe.

[Bootsykk]

Wozza78 wrote...

I've played through DA:O several times now with each of the Origin storylines. There are so many little choices that can change the whole flavour of the game on each play through. I do have a problem however. Even though it is just a game I still find it difficult to make "evil" choices even when I have intentionally created an "evil" character. To date I have almost left Redcliffe to the undead... and failed, and almost convinced the werewolves to go after the Dalish but changed my mind, and came very close to persuading Gregoir to carrying out The Annulment of The Circle Tower... and failed again... what is wrong with me? Why can't I just be evil? Has anyone else struggled with morality in this game?

The reason why, in my opinion, is because there is no morality system, and the way the dialogue system is designed, subconciously your mind will view that little bunch of pixels as actual people if you immerse yourself enough and allow yourself to get too absorbed in the storyline. That's the whole reason you become attatched to a character, the same way a really good film or book would really draw you in--except, the catch is, as the Grey Warden you the player are the one who 'befriended' the different party members or 'executed' the mage tower. It's designed so that you feel that weight is on your shoulders

[UpiH]

For me it feels like conducting a symphony may feel to a conductor. You've got the notes and the orchestra, now it's up to you, which themes you raise above others, which you try to suspend, which ones you ignore. There may be some "wrong" notes on the score, typos if you like or some underlying themes you might not want to emphasize. For instance, if I happen to do friendly fire, or a wrong conversation choice, for me it's a reaload. The story and the choices you've made and how you've conducted the game is what matters.



I've known many people I've regarded as civilized ones that watch soap operas like the Bald and Plentiful and fluently discuss about their comings and goings as if they were real people. Is gaming worse than that?

[Sidney]

UpiH wrote...
I for one am not happy about the fact that you must be a jerk in order to get the best bow in the game, for instance. I can live with that, without the bow, of course. I take it, taking the longer route isn't always the most rewarding one. Anyway, the game, after a couple of playthroughs becomes so easy, you can beat it equipped with a spoon, hehe.

Yes but you should not always be able to get from A to B by every means available. Jerks might get to B and not C while the good will do the reverse. I should be able to "solve" the game in many ways but not every action or options has to be exactly the same no matter my decision.

[asaiasai]

Yea i am with you OP i can not seem to pull the evil trigger eithrt. I have saved been evil for the "gotta see" but i usually reload and follow the cheerleader path. I do like how the choice is there even if i NEVER excercise it it is noce to know i can be a total bastard if i ever had the inclination. Thanks Bioware for allowing me the opportunity to set my inner sadist free even if i stuff him back in his box immediatly.



Asai

[UpiH]

Sidney wrote...

Yes but you should not always be able to get from A to B by every means available. Jerks might get to B and not C while the good will do the reverse. I should be able to "solve" the game in many ways but not every action or options has to be exactly the same no matter my decision.

Of course you shouldn't be able travel to the moon if you decide to destroy the vessel, however. That's what I see some people are demanding, essentially. Well, if they're not happy with that, there's a plethora of mods that will alllow them to be able to do that. Bearing responsibility for one's action is pretty essential irl, in my books. A game is, of course, a different matter entirely.

[Mlai00]

We have the same origins, and if your character is still having the attitude of "survival of the fittest, the weak are pathetic" it means the caste system wins and you're just as bad.

Nope, I'm not bad, just realistic. It is those who were born with a silver spoon in their mouths, and waxing on about morality and mercy while stuffing their faces with cake... they are the bad ones, or the ignorant ones.

Dust Town is a ****ty place, and while Broscas have to hustle and 'hore to survive, it doesn't mean they shouldn't try to better themselves, or see the good in people, just because it's all the life they know.

But I do try to better myself. >:-D

And I do see the good in people. That's why I saved the werewolves from becoming weak humans without a penny to their names. Not even clothes on their backs! Man, they weren't thinking! Now, they have a forest and hunting ground to call home, and no petty bandits would dare mess with them.

See, you're acting as if morality is a fact of life. I think you're projecting yourself on Brosca. I try not to put my value system on her, and I see that morality is a luxury.

You'll go around in life expecting to be dust under boots, then you will always see and expect the worse in people.

Brosca sees the worse in ppl because she knows what to look for. She opened my eyes and I realized how blind my lawful good MHN was. He saw everything from a hero's pedestal, and he never truly knew people. He only knew what his own ideals allowed him to see.

Brosca sees everything, and more often than not, people are ugly broken little things. Watch the face of even the most grateful fawning peasant twist into an idiotic scowl, as soon as you ask for compensation for RISKING YOUR LIFE FOR HIM.

There is only so much you can do with that frame of mind before you're consumed by it; if you make your experiences and traumas a cage you'll never move on from them.

So says ppl living in a palace. How exactly does a Duster move out of her cage? With good morals?

That's the thing. The cage is not a state of mind. It is REAL. It is poverty. It is social discrimination. You can't think/believe/pray your way out of it.

Morality is a social contract. Made by people who have a place in that society, who have a stake in keeping that society running in a beneficial way for them. The only thing it does for the people outside that society, is to keep them out.

Now, you can RP that you don't see it as a cage- a mage might be a loyalist to the Chant and really, really does see magic as a sin- but, regardless; they're given a chance to see the other side of the world for a change.

I see the other side of the world, and it is exactly what Dust Town had taught me.

1. Which is why I helped the Werewolves. Poor bastards would be dead in a month if they became human. They'd just be more refugees in Fereldan. Now they're proud warriors who laugh at the Blight.

2. Which is why I annulled the tower. Hoping for the best in everyone is a naive mistake. Gregoir had the right idea, then almost had mercy and friendship override his common sense. I had to give him a gentle reminder.

3. Obviously why I'm voting for Bhelen. Even if my sis isn't consort. I wouldn't judge a man by his "morals." I see right past Harrowmont's "morals." Zev did, too.

[sylvanaerie]

mousestalker wrote...

UpiH wrote...

The Darkspoon, yes. What about the Archdemon? Loghain said, there were no sightings of dragons in the Korcari Wilds at least? Dragons? Aren't they just a myth?

The Darkspoon? Are we fighting evil cutlery now?

Well if you steal Ser Garlen's sword and do an examine of it it says hes one confused knight on the field facing the darkspawn with only a dinner fork...