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[Sabriana]

sylvanaerie wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

UpiH wrote...

The Darkspoon, yes. What about the Archdemon? Loghain said, there were no sightings of dragons in the Korcari Wilds at least? Dragons? Aren't they just a myth?

The Darkspoon? Are we fighting evil cutlery now?

Well if you steal Ser Garlen's sword and do an examine of it it says hes one confused knight on the field facing the darkspawn with only a dinner fork...

Mouse at her finest. Again.
But why not? If the "Maker" can have golden cutlery, why can't the darkspawn have darkspoons? I'm all for equality.

@ Sylvanaerie. I forgot about that tidbit. Nice catch.

[Xandurpein]

Mlai00 wrote...

I understand that this game is very immersive, so it becomes difficult to willingly make people suffer when you stop seeing them as just pixels. Ppl who really get into the roleplaying, can have a hard time willing themselves to do cruel things.
However, immersion *can* help you become more evil. I have no problem with being (semi-)evil, because the Origin put me in the right frame of mind. If I work out my PC's motivations, I can carry out what she feels is right/beneficial. It's like acting, you have to let yourself be.
--I saved Redcliffe this time, but I won't if 1 of the townsmen even looks at me wrong, when I play City Elf in the future.
--I sided with the Werewolves because Zathrian tried to manipulate me. My DC chara despises ppl who think they're so high and mighty that they can just use her like a tool. But in the end she still gave Zathrian one final chance, but he didn't take it and decided to fight. His choice doomed his clan. Her conscience is clear.
--I totally annulled that damn tower. Like Gregoir said, even 1 escaped secret abomination can devastate villages. My chara went thru Warden's Keep and Redcliffe and Honnleath; those are the only circle mages she's ever known. She does not trust circle mages at all. Whatever those circle mages are teaching in that tower, makes every single one of them want to go play with demons.

This is very true. You are missing out on something in this game if you just play a steretype evil you feel no connection to. You have to discover why someone would do evil things to play it well. It is a trip to the "dark side" to find things that annoy you and magnify that feeling. Many orgins really lend themselves to this type of thinking, like both elf orgins or even the mage orgin.
It's also interesting to see just how blurred the line between "good" and "evil" can really be.

[UpiH]

Darkspoon Ninja-lover with a shoespoon? How can you actually cut with a spoon? Except for a cake, but they say a cake is a lie...

[Sabriana]

Xandurpein, there is a thread somewhere in another of these forums where a person is collecting ideas for an "evil" play-through. There is so much wrong with his/her ideas that I didn't even think about posting there.

What I simply don't understand is that people can't grasp that there really is no true "evil" to be had in DA:O. There is too much underlying and overcapping, and far too much grey to be able to do so. This isn't D&D, there is no alignment.

[UpiH]

I don't really know. I've played the Mage origin maybe one too many times. It just feels dumb to be forced to act as either Irving's errand boy or Jowan's useful idiot. To mitigate that, you do have a couple of lines to the effect "Or we could just end this foolishness and turn back". That wears thin, though.



Another one going against the grain is to act as a royal pimp, but that a route you can choose.

[Herr Uhl]

Sabriana wrote...

What I simply don't understand is that people can't grasp that there really is no true "evil" to be had in DA:O. There is too much underlying and overcapping, and far too much grey to be able to do so. This isn't D&D, there is no alignment.

Justify having sex with the DD in exchange for Connor.

And I liked that thread.

[soignee]

Sabriana wrote...

Xandurpein, there is a thread somewhere in another of these forums where a person is collecting ideas for an "evil" play-through. There is so much wrong with his/her ideas that I didn't even think about posting there.
What I simply don't understand is that people can't grasp that there really is no true "evil" to be had in DA:O. There is too much underlying and overcapping, and far too much grey to be able to do so. This isn't D&D, there is no alignment.

oh that lawfully good/nuetral nonsense makes me grr, not all characters can fit into that

[sylvanaerie]

Sabriana wrote...

Xandurpein, there is a thread somewhere in another of these forums where a person is collecting ideas for an "evil" play-through. There is so much wrong with his/her ideas that I didn't even think about posting there.
What I simply don't understand is that people can't grasp that there really is no true "evil" to be had in DA:O. There is too much underlying and overcapping, and far too much grey to be able to do so. This isn't D&D, there is no alignment.

Very much so.  I believe even if you play as crappy crazy evil as you can (defiling the ashes, killing the werewolves/elves, killing Connor, leaving Redcliffe to its fate, wiping out the Circle) all these would be "evil" to me in my idea of the word but ultimately it accomplishes so much good in the world (Ending the Blight). Now granted some of those things I listed wouldn't make any difference in ending the Blight but its still options. 

If you did all those things you would find morally reprehensible in the game (IE eeeeebil) then I guess it would be an "evil" playthrough but Thedas is a world of infinite shades of gray, not black and white no matter how you play it.  Some choices, even the best ones you can make to get "good" endings still end up being not so good in the long run. And an evil PC ultimately saves the world by dint of you ummm finished the game and stopped the Blight.  Don't get no more "good" than that.  Unless your perspective is from the Darkspawn side.  I guess then it would be "evil" to them cause you killed their pretty singing dragon old god thing.

[Xandurpein]

Sabriana wrote...

Xandurpein, there is a thread somewhere in another of these forums where a person is collecting ideas for an "evil" play-through. There is so much wrong with his/her ideas that I didn't even think about posting there.
What I simply don't understand is that people can't grasp that there really is no true "evil" to be had in DA:O. There is too much underlying and overcapping, and far too much grey to be able to do so. This isn't D&D, there is no alignment.

A lot of studies about how people react when they are forced to live in a different cultures than their own, like migrants or refugees, shows that of all the things that people need to adjust too, food, clothes, religion, etc the one thing people have the hardest time to adjust is their sense of justice and right and wrong. It is simply too ingrained into the core of our being. Not many people can even aknowledge that morality can in any way be anything an absolute. That is why people feel somehow cheated when the apparently 'good' choice results in a 'bad' outcome, like the Harrowmont/Bhelen.

[UpiH]

But, but... did i just see good old Immanuel going down the drain?

[Sabriana]

Herr Uhl, I liked the thread for the laughs. Letting Isolde sacrifice herself is evil? Not in my book. And there are several more goodies to be found. But knowing you, I'm not going to bet on why you liked it. You, good ser, are devious. Don't deny it, it would be of no use. I do think that there is a lot wrong with her/his ideas, but I agree, it is good for the lulz.



D&D alignments are silly indeed, I agee, Soignee. Your character is a prime example. Why would a casteless dwarf revere Andraste's ashes? Especially if making a deal with Kolgrim would be to her and her allies advantage, making it more possible to survive, and therefore ensuring that the GWs could continue on to fight the true menace threatening the country? And that's just one example.



I agree with you Sylvanaerie. The only true evil would be if the PC sides with the darkspawn. In NWN2 the PC could side with the King of Shadows, but here she/he has only one way out. Defeat the true evil that is threatening all life on Thedas.

[Xandurpein]

UpiH wrote...

But, but... did i just see good old Immanuel going down the drain?

Maybe it was just his shadow....

[sylvanaerie]

A tad off topic but as I finally managed to sneak a "Kill Connor" storyline past my sensibilities...



Did yall know with the right conversation choices you can get a -9 disapproval from Alistair for killing a little boy. But the best you can get for offing that beyotch Isolde is a -10...so killing children is less reprehensible than using blood magic for some folks. Even Wynne takes more of a disapproval hit for sacrificing Isolde instead of killing Connor (I think it was -3 for killing the boy, -10 for killing his mom).



All depends on what your morality standard is it would seem. For me killing Connor is the worst option.

[Herr Uhl]

Connor is an abomination, killing such is what templars do.



And maleficar (see Jowan).

[CalJones]

Killing Connor is so much more traumatic than killing Isolde, but seems Alistair can't get past the maleficar thing. Sometimes I want to slap him so hard...can someone make a slap Alistair mod please? (And Wynne, while you're at it).

[Wozza78]

Alistair is aTemplar first and obviously a Grey Warden second. He is also someone who seems to see most things in black and white. Ididn,t much care for him during the whole me.

[Janni-in-VA]

Doesn't the game encourage the player to choose the more -- oh, what word to use -- "helpful" actions as opposed to ones that are more pragmatic, perhaps? For instance if you leave Redcliffe to its fate, you don't get the XP you'd get from fighting. You also lose out on XP (and some gold) if you choose not to do any of the Chantry Board quests. Of course, I suppose one could look at those things from a purely mercenary point of view because you do get paid.

I just have a hard time making some of the tougher choices because I tend to put too much of me into my characters. I do try to stop and think, "Okay, what would this girl do in these circumstances?" but I can't say that I can always stick with what the PC might actually want to do. Some things I can manage because I don't really see them as necessarily bad. My DNF slit Zevran's throat and married Alistair to Anora without blinking an eyelid. Her player felt a little bad about the latter, but she didn't mind it a bit.

On the other hand, my first PC was ready to leave Leliana in Lothering because she figured Leliana'd been eating too many deep mushrooms, but Alistair talked her out of it. She also went into the forest to kill Witherfang, but the Lady talked her out of it. She was going to annul the Circle, but Wynne talked her out of it. She was going to slit Zevran's throat, but he talked her out of it. Utoh, I'm seeing a pattern, here.

I do have a character that I want to take a more pragmatic, "eyes on the prize" approach. She was ready to leave Redcliffe to its fate, but -- yeah, someone talked her out of it. *sigh*