536 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziggy]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Collider wrote...
I think they are unjustified. Some people are acting as if their human rights are being taken away.

There is quite a few young forum members here.  That would partially explain it.

Now it's immature to fight for equality? Agreed there's no need to get abusive or anything, but you don't get what you want by hoping people will hear you think.

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

Their current is direction is FANTASTIC. Look at their older games and then look at their newer, you will see that their games are becoming much much more accessible for LGBT players. I don't get the outcry over one single game.

I think you might be underestimating how much they like and are invested in Mass Effect.

Yes, there are lots of games, but surely you know what it's like to really, really  love one in particular? To wait for this game, to anticipate it and love it, to want to explore everything it offers? To become an ardent fan?

Mass Effect is great. There are other games, but none of them will be quite like this one. They love this particular experience and they care when something detracts from it, because it's special to them.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I dunno, I think I'm slowly starting to turn into Andrew Ryan =O

[HolyMoogle]

Ohey Bioware,



First of all, saying homosexual romances = R-rated is messed up, just plain dumb. Seriously, your ability to put your foot in your mouth at every turn is approaching Square-Enix PR levels.



Secondly, I'm pretty sure Mass Effect is rated M for Mature rather than T for Teen.



Thirdly, isn't it convenient how Mass Effect is either about choice or simply about playing through an entirely pre-concieved visual novel depending on what question you're asked?

[Collider]

Em23 wrote...
Now it's immature to fight for equality? Agreed there's no need to get abusive or anything, but you don't get what you want by hoping people will hear you think.

This isn't even about equality. If you want to fight for equality, you need to be criticizing governments, not video games.

[jlb524]

Collider wrote...

What do you expect from a business? Being terribly honest about EVERYTHING they are asked is not sound commercially. It is very typical and standard for businesses to lie and hide things from their audience. You can expect it from just about any company of any significant size. Why does it matter if you know their reasoning? They are also not obligated to lay their heart out on a table for you to examine. I also basically got the impression from this interview that they basically said that some characters are bisexual, some are not. Is that not good enough for you?

I did not get that impression from the inverview.  I got the impression that 'same sex romances' are too 'heavy' and they are now going for 'light' PG-13 rated ones, so the same-sex ones were cut.

I know businesses are unethical but would hope for a decent explanation from a company that has provided mature same-sex romantic content in the past.  If BW never did this my expectations would be lower.

Did you do her romance? How she's treated in the forums should not matter to you, use your own judgment rather than the judgment of others if you haven't done so. I highly doubt that her romance is as despicable as some say. It's just popular to denounce her for some reason.

That really is not my point. I personally might have felt that her romance was good. I don't, because it wasn't as in depth or contained as much content as the 'straight' ones (I did play through that 'romance' by the way and thought it was terrible). I just take offense at how this romance was portrayed (as a 'joke' and a fling) and I feel that is reflected by the response to it on the forums.

Still positive.

Liara's romantic content was too non-existent to be positive or negative. Liara's depiction as a whole was pretty negative...just look at how many left her for another b/c now she's a 'crazy biatch'.

Just because the romance did not progress does not mean it was not a positive rendition of lesbian relations. If you are not talking about that in regards to saying positive versus negative, then reclarify.

But there was no relationship there. It did not get the same respect and treatment as the straight relationships did. Samara is an asari and by default, 'bisexual' so they weren't really adding anything there that wasn't in ME1. Samara is a respectable figure, though. However, human homosexuals/bisexuals are either not shown or are shown negatively.

??? Their current is direction is FANTASTIC. Look at their older games and then look at their newer, you will see that their games are becoming much much more accessible for LGBT players. I don't get the outcry over one single game.

More accessible? You have to be kidding. I'm talking about ME2...it was terrible for LGBT players.

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
I try to see it from their perspective. How would I feel if all my chances at romance were removed from my videogame? Sure, they have Liara, but where is she in ME2? Sidelined, so that the hetero romancers could get a chance to boink some more people.

First of all you are assuming that it was sidelined just for heterosexual players. Liara was sidelined because she could not be a squad mate, so she could survive. Second of all, not all of their chances of romance were "removed" from the video game. Literally, there is lesbian content with Liara, Shiala, Samara, Morinth, and Kelly. That's far from removed.

I'm sorry, you're right. I said it that way because in the case of heterosexual players, our LIs were sidelined and we were given alternate romances to take their place. Homosexual players were not given alternate homosexual options at all.

Samara, Shiala, Morinth, Kelly? Hmm... I don't know, Collider. Kelly really isn't on par with the other romances at all. Shiala does... what? Touches your shoulder? Ohhhh yeah, that's what I'm talkin' about.

Morinth... WILL KILL YOU. Samara's is quite incomplete, still not on par with the other romances. Liara got sidelined, she's barely there. They don't just want homosexual content, they want homosexual ROMANCES, romances like you and I got.

[Collider]

Nightwriter wrote...

Collider wrote...

Their current is direction is FANTASTIC. Look at their older games and then look at their newer, you will see that their games are becoming much much more accessible for LGBT players. I don't get the outcry over one single game.

I think you might be underestimating how much they like and are invested in Mass Effect.

Yes, there are lots of games, but surely you know what it's like to really, really  love one in particular? To wait for this game, to anticipate it and love it, to want to explore everything it offers? To become an ardent fan?

Mass Effect is great. There are other games, but none of them will be quite like this one. They love this particular experience and they care when something detracts from it, because it's special to them.

I disagree that one game, Mass Effect 2, somehow changes the direction they've been going. I don't know about you, but I would not consider one single game as constituting as a trend. If you look at the timeline of games, LGBT content as steadily increased
Kotor - Juhani, Jade Empire - that one chick (lesbian) and sky (gay), Mass Effect (Liara, etc), Dragon Age - Leliana (lesbian) and Zevran (gay)

ONE game does not equal a direction or trend. And we are pretty much assured more lesbian content with ME3.

[Badpie]

The Angry One wrote...

Everything new that we add still requires extra content. Some people might argue in a case like that you could just have the same kinds of scenes that just work with different characters. But we wouldn't really want to have it that way. You'd want to take a proper approach to designing those scenes, otherwise you'd see the same scene.

Kaidan and Ashley would like a word with you...

Yes indeed. <_<

[jlb524]

Collider wrote...

Literally, there is lesbian content with Liara, Shiala, Samara, Morinth, and Kelly. That's far from removed.

These are not on the same level as the heterosexual romances.  Most are non-entities or are ridiculous easter-eggs.   Also, 4 out of 5 are asari, who are always by default, 'bisexual'.   I'm a human....I want to see a decent representation of a gay man, a lesbian woman, or a bisexual man or woman in this game.  This is non-existent.

[this isnt my name]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Ah yes "homosexuality", we have dismissed that claim.
On a serious note, the answer is simple. Tali just doesn't swing that way. That would be the lore answer. Having homosexual options is fine. But making everyone bisexual just to please everyone is cheap.

This, I dont care if people get the same sex romance or not, but the ggame would feel cheep if everyone was bi. I just hope they dont change characters preferences now. I mean if they had a chance to be gay/bi whatever it should have been done sooner, now it just feels like changing the character to please everyone, it shouldnt work that way, especially in a Bioware game.
So if there are any same sex romances I hope they are new characters not ones already in the game.

[jlb524]

Collider wrote...

I disagree that one game, Mass Effect 2, somehow changes the direction they've been going. I don't know about you, but I would not consider one single game as constituting as a trend. If you look at the timeline of games, LGBT content as steadily increased
Kotor - Juhani, Jade Empire - that one chick (lesbian) and sky (gay), Mass Effect (Liara, etc), Dragon Age - Leliana (lesbian) and Zevran (gay)

ONE game does not equal a direction or trend. And we are pretty much assured more lesbian content with ME3.

I'm worried b/c ME2 was created after this EA buyout crap happened.  Production on DA was started before that.  This is what I'm referring to when I worry about the direction of the game. 

The 'Liara lesbian content in ME3' will only be there b/c it was in ME1.  I bet if they were starting ME1 today, Liara wouldn't have been an option for FemShep.

[Collider]

jlb524 wrote...
I did not get that impression from the inverview.  I got the impression that 'same sex romances' are too 'heavy' and they are now going for 'light' PG-13 rated ones, so the same-sex ones were cut.

No, you are misinterpreting them. It's not same sex romances that was too heavy, it was the romance scenes in ME1 that were too heavy. He is also commenting on the players who complained there was not enough skin in ME2. He noted that technically they could just exchange models in the romance scenes (as they did in ME1, basically only the dialougue was different) or they could go a lighter PG-13 route but at the same time diversify the romances and their scenes.

I know businesses are unethical but would hope for a decent explanation from a company that has provided mature same-sex romantic content in the past.  If BW never did this my expectations would be lower.

It's unfair to hold Bioware up to higher standards. They created those standards to begin with by providing same sex content, which most companies would never dare to do. They are giving BS answers because they are a business with PR to consider. That's all. They aren't trying to give anyone the middle finger.

That really is not my point. I personally might have felt that her romance was good. I don't, because it wasn't as in depth or contained as much content as the 'straight' ones (I did play through that 'romance' by the way and thought it was terrible). I just take offense at how this romance was portrayed (as a 'joke' and a fling) and I feel that is reflected by the response to it on the forums.

I really think you are being too sensitive. Taking offense at that is ridiculous. It's the very same if you're male shepard. It's not PARTICULAR to lesbians, so why would you take special offense? Adn they are clearly not trying to offend you at all. So you are taking offense when no offense was intended?

But there was no relationship there. It did not get the same respect and treatment as the straight relationships did. Samara is an asari and by default, 'bisexual' so they weren't really adding anything there that wasn't in ME1. Samara is a respectable figure, though. However, human homosexuals/bisexuals are either not shown or are shown negatively.

Why does it matter if it's human or not? It's literally lesbian if both participants are female. I fail to see how it did not get the same respect.

More accessible? You have to be kidding. I'm talking about ME2...it was terrible for LGBT players.

Wow. Having LGBT content to begin with and yet it's still terrible for LGBT players.
WAT

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Collider wrote...

Their current is direction is FANTASTIC. Look at their older games and then look at their newer, you will see that their games are becoming much much more accessible for LGBT players. I don't get the outcry over one single game.

I think you might be underestimating how much they like and are invested in Mass Effect.

Yes, there are lots of games, but surely you know what it's like to really, really  love one in particular? To wait for this game, to anticipate it and love it, to want to explore everything it offers? To become an ardent fan?

Mass Effect is great. There are other games, but none of them will be quite like this one. They love this particular experience and they care when something detracts from it, because it's special to them.

I disagree that one game, Mass Effect 2, somehow changes the direction they've been going. I don't know about you, but I would not consider one single game as constituting as a trend. If you look at the timeline of games, LGBT content as steadily increased
Kotor - Juhani, Jade Empire - that one chick (lesbian) and sky (gay), Mass Effect (Liara, etc), Dragon Age - Leliana (lesbian) and Zevran (gay)

ONE game does not equal a direction or trend. And we are pretty much assured more lesbian content with ME3.

Nah, it's not about a trend. I'm trying to say that this particular game is special to them.

Above and beyond trends and bar setting and all that, beyond what other games there might be, this one game, in and of itself, is special to them, and they wanted homosexual romances in it, just because... they cared.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Nightwriter wrote...

Collider wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Collider wrote...

Their current is direction is FANTASTIC. Look at their older games and then look at their newer, you will see that their games are becoming much much more accessible for LGBT players. I don't get the outcry over one single game.

I think you might be underestimating how much they like and are invested in Mass Effect.

Yes, there are lots of games, but surely you know what it's like to really, really  love one in particular? To wait for this game, to anticipate it and love it, to want to explore everything it offers? To become an ardent fan?

Mass Effect is great. There are other games, but none of them will be quite like this one. They love this particular experience and they care when something detracts from it, because it's special to them.

I disagree that one game, Mass Effect 2, somehow changes the direction they've been going. I don't know about you, but I would not consider one single game as constituting as a trend. If you look at the timeline of games, LGBT content as steadily increased
Kotor - Juhani, Jade Empire - that one chick (lesbian) and sky (gay), Mass Effect (Liara, etc), Dragon Age - Leliana (lesbian) and Zevran (gay)

ONE game does not equal a direction or trend. And we are pretty much assured more lesbian content with ME3.

Nah, it's not about a trend. I'm trying to say that this particular game is special to them.

Above and beyond trends and bar setting and all that, beyond what other games there might be, this one game, in and of itself, is special to them, and they wanted homosexual romances in it, just because... they cared.

Nightwriter, some do fear that it will be the start of a trend though.

[Ziggy]

 

Collider wrote...

Em23 wrote...
Now it's immature to fight for equality? Agreed there's no need to get abusive or anything, but you don't get what you want by hoping people will hear you think.

This isn't even about equality. If you want to fight for equality, you need to be criticizing governments, not video games. 

Bioware had the guts to do it with Dragon Age. Just trying to encourage more of the same. Showing support for a cause and raising awareness is never pointless. Bioware is not just a victim of governments, they can include it if they want just like in dragon age and showing support for it in these forums may influence their decision. That's not so strange is it?

[Onyx Jaguar]

Shandepared wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Also with Genetic engineering there wouldn't be a point to having straight children. 

EDIT:  toned down the anger

That a question? In any case the answer is simple: grandchildren.

Pointless is pointless.  With Genetic Engineering sexual orientation is not needed.  By that time Procriation through other methods would be widespread and because of Genetic Engineering that may be preferable.

EDIT:  Worded confusingly, with the original sentence I made it sound like it wouldn't matter how many there were per sex class.  That also sounds strange, well whatever.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 06 avril 2010 - 01:39 .

[jlb524]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Nightwriter, some do fear that it will be the start of a trend though.

Yes, that's my point, or am I to stop caring about these romances and just shut up and ride the possible 'no-******' trend?

[Collider]

jlb524 wrote...
I'm worried b/c ME2 was created after this EA buyout crap happened.

Listen, if EA was truly concerned about the lesbian content, why IS there lesbian content to begin with in ME2? Kelly could easily be straight. Shiala did not need to be attracted to Shepard at all. Samara did not have to be attracted to Shepard at all either. Instead of Morinth having a relationship with a human female, it could easily have been a man. Instead of trying to get Morinth to invite you to your apartment, they could just had you track her down and kill her outright.

Production on DA was started before that.  This is what I'm referring to when I worry about the direction of the game. 

What I am saying is that a single game is hardly changing the direction. Especially since two games before that has lesbian and GAY content.

Doesn't matter if production started before that. You can easily see the pull EA had with Dragon Age in regards to DLC. Yet the gay and lesbian content remained despite the fact that they could have easily been taken out of the game.

The 'Liara lesbian content in ME3' will only be there b/c it was in ME1.  I bet if they were starting ME1 today, Liara wouldn't have been an option for FemShep.

Yea, because it's plausible that a member of an all female race would not be attracted to females.