536 réponses à ce sujet

[Onyx Jaguar]

Nightwriter wrote...

Collider wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
To be fair, it is not unreasonable to worry that Bioware's recent switch to EA and their subsequent tone-downage of homosexual content might be more than coincidence.

Only if you for some reason think that Dragon Age's lesbian romance with Leliana and gay romance with Zevran somehow don't count. Their romances are just as graphic as the other ones.

Didn't jlb already say that DA:O was already in production by the time of the switch? The project was already underway, so to speak.

DA has been in development for some time.  The Dr.'s however seem to have stated that full on development started back in 2007 or so (development that lead to its current state).  I may be wrong however.  It was announced quite a while ago.

[Xaijin]

Collider wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Collider wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
To be fair, it is not unreasonable to worry that Bioware's recent switch to EA and their subsequent tone-downage of homosexual content might be more than coincidence.

Only if you for some reason think that Dragon Age's lesbian romance with Leliana and gay romance with Zevran somehow don't count. Their romances are just as graphic as the other ones.

Didn't jlb already say that DA:O was already in production by the time of the switch? The project was already underway, so to speak.

That does not matter. They could have easily taken homosexual content out. They had roughly 2 years to do so, but look at the game. It's still very gay.

Zev is not gay, he's greedy. Won't even pick a hole.

[jlb524]

Collider wrote...

In some societies homosexuality is encouraged. There is some culture in Africa where homosexual activity is required as a rites of passage.

Just because homosexuality is prosecuted in some societies does not mean that every portrayal of homosexuality is a commentary on the orientation in particular.

Yes, there are a few remote societies...ME2 is sold in none of these.  Now you sound like Casey Hudson, dodging the question. 

Also, how many societies demonize heterosexuality?  Hmmm....none.  

? Rejecting female Shepard does not really strike me as positive or negative.

I didn't mean this.  I meant that Jack's past involves sex with other women, this is clear.  However, she apparently is not bisexual/lesbian/seriously interested in women.  Thus, it appears lesbian sex was just being used to give her a more 'troubled' and 'edgy' sounding past.  Lesbian sex is not being treated as a serious thing some people do but part of a 'crazy phase' that psycho tattooed chicks like to do to either please men or look cool.  This I found offensive...they didn't need to do this.  I get it, Jack's a 'free-spirit', she's 'edgy and troubled'.  They didn't need to add the obligatory meaningless girly sex.

You should decide for yourself. It's just popular to diss on Kelly. It's a meme. Memes aren't known for being logical or the best portrayals of humankind.

Of course not, but this portrayal is the one chosen instead of a meaningful same-sex relationship.  That is troublesome to me.

Modifié par jlb524, 06 avril 2010 - 03:15 .

[Ray Joel Oh]

Xaijin wrote...

Zev is not gay, he's greedy. Won't even
pick a hole.

Oh dear, I don't think you want to go there...

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 06 avril 2010 - 03:16 .

[Nightwriter]

Xaijin wrote...

Zev is not gay, he's greedy. Won't even pick a hole.

[RyrineaNara]

Nightwriter wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Zev is not gay, he's greedy. Won't even pick a hole.

Thank I was about to do this <_<

[Onyx Jaguar]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Zev is not gay, he's greedy. Won't even
pick a hole.

Oh dear, I don't think you want to go there...

But Zevran does

*POSTS IN THIRD PERSON TO EPIC FACEPALM HIS OWN POST*

[Nightwriter]

RyrineaNara wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Zev is not gay, he's greedy. Won't even pick a hole.

Thank I was about to do this <_<

  I thought maybe the Picard one might be getting old.

[Wolf--Shadow]

In regards to the original post… (Warning: fairly long and somewhat rant-like, sorry)

I can fully accept that not everyone in any given games can be gay/bi, such things are inherent in some personalities and it therefore wouldn’t make much sense for Tali to feel anything for FemShep beyond a deep sister-like bond.
And, call me crazy, but I actually liked the whole Samara thing. It made perfect sense with her history and personality, and the endings had the heartbreak of what could have been (paragon), or humor over swiftly changing lusts (renegade). It was painful and touching, it spoke volumes in so few words and it worked an angle that I have rarely seen in video games.

What I cannot stand is that we are repeatedly told (mostly in vague words) is that there is no gay option, but we are supposed to be appeased with the ‘non-romance’ option of Kelly. And while she was mildly interesting given her profession, interests in non-humans, and Cerberus alignment, she came on far to fast, and had little depth to offer Shepard as opposed to say, Garrus.

I shouldn’t even start on Liara, I probably could have handled her complete one-eighty in personality and focus, but the utter indifference she showed towards Shepard was just this side of ‘u r dumped’.
Okay fine, you’re being recorded, would you care to step aboard the Normandy for a few minutes to speak in private? If I have time to stop my ‘cosmic threat’ mission to help Miranda’s sister move, I think I can spare one lousy hour.

I cannot even count how many times it’s been suggested that possible any M/M romance be handled much like in Jade Empire, the choice to pursue the gay option being quite clear from the get-go, without the character in question hitting on the male character every time they speak. Yes, there would be plenty of players who would feel very offended by the very option, but how fair is it to refuse the choice for other players?

I thought we played RPG’s for the ability to choose, to explore other realms and ways of being, doesn’t sexuality count too?

Modifié par Wolf--Shadow, 06 avril 2010 - 03:24 .

[jlb524]

Collider wrote...

That does not matter. They could have easily taken homosexual content out. They had roughly 2 years to do so, but look at the game. It's still very gay.

What if these relationships had been nearly finished?  I can't see them scrapping two full romances they spent a significant time working on in the preceding year.  They (the EA bigwigs) might have taken the attitude, 'Well, it's already in there so will just leave it now, but this is the LAST GAME for homosexual romance content *smacks BW's hand*'.

This is what I worry about.

[Xaijin]

Nightwriter wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Zev is not gay, he's greedy. Won't even pick a hole.

Indeed, Jag, Zev does want to go there. With his RAPYARE.

Modifié par Xaijin, 06 avril 2010 - 03:30 .

[RyrineaNara]

Nightwriter wrote...

RyrineaNara wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Zev is not gay, he's greedy. Won't even pick a hole.

Thank I was about to do this <_<

  I thought maybe the Picard one might be getting old.

Mr. Picard  is geting a litte bit old lol

[Mallissin]

Xaijin wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Zev is not gay, he's greedy. Won't even pick a hole.

Indwed, Jag, Zev does wnat to go there. With his RAPYARE.

HOT!

[screwoffreg]

jlb524 wrote...

Collider wrote...

That does not matter. They could have easily taken homosexual content out. They had roughly 2 years to do so, but look at the game. It's still very gay.

What if these relationships had been nearly finished?  I can't see them scrapping two full romances they spent a significant time working on in the preceding year.  They (the EA bigwigs) might have taken the attitude, 'Well, it's already in there so will just leave it now, but this is the LAST GAME for homosexual romance content *smacks BW's hand*'.

This is what I worry about.

We all assume its EA but it might have been an internal decision as well.  EA is a huge company and they sure didn't care that in the Sims you could make out/adopt children in a gay relationship.  More than that you could **** around town popping out kids too....

If a game sells, they don't seem to mind a lot of things.  Hell, if you could make a PowerPoint showing that having a Left For Dead 2 cross over in ME 3 would make money, they would probably do it.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 06 avril 2010 - 03:33 .

[Ray Joel Oh]

Incidentally, I like when they have a distinction between characters that are straight and characters that are gay. It's not interchangeable, it's the way they are. I would have liked if Tali was bi, but at this point that ship has sailed.

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 06 avril 2010 - 03:32 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

To summarize:



-Cult-of-Tali wants Tali to be something she most likely isn't, because they are crazy like that.

-Bioware says no.

-People whine about bias with no backing just like the "you humans are all racist" Turian. The Turian however was amusing, this isn't.



This is Bioware's game, and like any company they try to appeal to a large crowd. They shouldn't sacrifice development time for an outspoken minority. Should Bioware establish a quota for the Normandy in ME3? I mean their racist if they don't add an Asian guy right? If Bioware were to follow your wishes and Kaidan, Ashley, Jacob, Tali, Thane, etc all decided "hey we are all bisexual now" that would be really stupid.



Also many these days seem to think that homosexuality is a genetic disorder. In the game's universe genetic modification is pretty common, and most children are evidently scanned for conditions/diseases and cured of them, so there wouldn't be many homosexuals. Yeah, certainly not everybody gets genetic treatment, but your still dealing with a much smaller number. Also, some things are pre-determined about Shepard. Perhaps "he/she is straight" is one of those.



"Anti-progressive" Onyx Jaguar? Showing weakness?! Bioware doesn't have to dance to the whole politically correct liberal tune and make the party members look like the diverse group on the front of a college brochure. Hell you already got aliens, isn't that enough?



But what do I know? I am a white, straight, male, proud American who doesn't support all of this "gay pride" nonsense, so that apparently makes me some sort of evil bastard who drinks blood from the skulls of orphans.

[screwoffreg]

ReconTeam wrote...


But what do I know? I am a white, straight, male, proud American who doesn't support all of this "gay pride" nonsense, so that apparently makes me some sort of evil bastard who drinks blood from the skulls of orphans.

Pretty much.  Anyone who says that kind of thing sort of reeks of ignorance, no offense.

I am of Latin ancestry but I could care less about "Viva la Raza" or all that, I am a human being.  And supporting Gay Pride?  Who the hell needs your "support" for what people are to begin with?  I don't support straight people making out on the bus, but I am not going to take a political stance on it.

You define yourself on your words and actions.  

Modifié par screwoffreg, 06 avril 2010 - 03:37 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

ReconTeam wrote...



"Anti-progressive" Onyx Jaguar? Showing weakness?! Bioware doesn't have to dance to the whole politically correct liberal tune and make the party members look like the diverse group on the front of a college brochure. Hell you already got aliens, isn't that enough?

Short answer: No, but then again I am disapointed that no game since Fallout 2 allows you to kill Children, and the lack of Nudity in Bioware's recent games.  Liberal does not exaclty mean progressive.  Is it liberal to show Violence on screen?  No.  Is it Progressive?  Yes.

[Ray Joel Oh]

ReconTeam wrote...
-words-

The gaming community is composed of many different vocal minorities.  Female gamers, racial minorities, gamers with poor eyesight or who are hard of hearing, foreign markets--being considerate of different demographics is what makes better games.  The gay demographic is a significant one.  Although Bioware holds no obligation to provide consessions to anyone, it would not only make their games more entertaining to more people, it would be profitable.

screwoffreg wrote...

Pretty much.  Anyone who says that kind of thing
sort of reeks of ignorance, no offense.

I am of Latin ancestry
but I could care less about "Viva la Raza" or all that, I am a human
being.  And supporting Gay Pride?  Who the hell needs your "support" for
what people are to begin with?  I don't support straight people making
out on the bus, but I am not going to take a political stance on it.

You
define yourself on your words and actions.  

Well put.

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 06 avril 2010 - 03:49 .

[Collider]

jlb524 wrote...
What if these relationships had been nearly finished?  I can't see them scrapping two full romances they spent a significant time working on in the preceding year.  They (the EA bigwigs) might have taken the attitude, 'Well, it's already in there so will just leave it now, but this is the LAST GAME for homosexual romance content *smacks BW's hand*'.

This is what I worry about.

Uh...2 years is not short enough for EA just to give a wrist slap. There is not a severe difference between being male or female in the romance. And content is cut out of games all the time. Huge portions of it, even. That's just how games work. Even if a ton of effort was put into it. EA slapping the wrist and saying no more does not even make sense in context to ME2. There is, again, lesbian content that is easily avoided.

[screwoffreg]

Collider wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
What if these relationships had been nearly finished?  I can't see them scrapping two full romances they spent a significant time working on in the preceding year.  They (the EA bigwigs) might have taken the attitude, 'Well, it's already in there so will just leave it now, but this is the LAST GAME for homosexual romance content *smacks BW's hand*'.

This is what I worry about.

Uh...2 years is not short enough for EA just to give a wrist slap. There is not a severe difference between being male or female in the romance. And content is cut out of games all the time. Huge portions of it, even. That's just how games work. Even if a ton of effort was put into it. EA slapping the wrist and saying no more does not even make sense in context to ME2. There is, again, lesbian content that is easily avoided.

Like I said earlier, I don't see EA getting that wild about it.  The SIms, a "kiddy game" had open gay relationships.  You could move in with each other, get married, have kids, walk around town holding hands, etc.  Talk about blatant yet the game sold like hotcakes.  

[Collider]

ReconTeam wrote...

To summarize:

-Cult-of-Tali wants Tali to be something she most likely isn't, because they are crazy like that.

Uh, most Tali fans like her as is. One person, who happens to be a lesbian does not equate to Tali fans.

[Ray Joel Oh]

jlb524 wrote...

What if these relationships had been nearly finished?  I can't see them scrapping two full romances they spent a significant time working on in the preceding year.  They (the EA bigwigs) might have taken the attitude, 'Well, it's already in there so will just leave it now, but this is the LAST GAME for homosexual romance content *smacks BW's hand*'.

This is what I worry about.

I honestly don't believe it can work that way.  The world just isn't moving in that direction.

[screwoffreg]

I think all of this "anger" would be mitigated if the relationships in ME were deeper to begin with. No one complained seriously that Morrigan wasn't a lesbian interest or Alistair wasn't a gay interest. Why? Because no matter the sexual orientation of your character, you could become very good friends with them and have satisfying conversations with them (Morrigan basically becoming your sister and Alistair a best bud). You don't have that at all in ME 2.

If you aren't shacking up...you just aren't.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 06 avril 2010 - 03:51 .